Dylan Waco

I don't know if I can call that Younger match good per se, but it was a watchable one hour long Drake Younger match and there really aren't many people in the world who he could have pulled that off with. I really liked Sami's matches with Dave Mastiff and Rhino a great deal as far as non-Finlay matches from last year go, but really I was high on his output, consistency and high end stuff against a large variety of opponents in general. One of the interesting things about this year is that I really do think it's wide open. At the moment I have a guy who I think is a pretty safe number one, but he's a guy who could easily disappear, get screwed by booking horribly, and is almost certainly not going to get the chances that some of the other stronger guys will get. Of course this project has the added benefit of being another elaborate anti-HHH troll

As a rule I'm a big fan of Southern indies. Part of that is probably cultural bias - to the extent that I get to see indies that is what I see and much of what they do is closely related to the wrestling themes that I grew up on and enjoy(ed). But I also generally enjoy the style of work you see on Southern indies more than what you see in your "super indie" feds. I really like DSCW a lot but they are very sporadic about putting their stuff on youtube. Earlier in the year before they got local tv they were putting up several matches from each card. Now you are lucky if one or two trickle out per show. I am also a really big fan of Empire, a very well run fed in Chattanooga metro area, that runs weekly most of the year and bi-weekly during the summer months. Perhaps not coincidentally DSCW and Empire have a lot of overlapping talent (Kyle Matthews, Shaun Tempers, Cyrus The Destroyer, et.). I also enjoy Rampage Pro a good bit, and they have an actual weekly web show, though I tend to find them more hit and miss then DSCW or Empire. They have some really solid promos there and the fed being run by an eccentric money mark who advertises all over his own show is pretty great. The TV title scene is also consistently really good there. On the other hand as a whole I think the show has been getting weaker over the course of the last six or seven months and the stream from their site isn't always the best. SAW has a very good talent roster and they bring in strong special attractions, but it may be the most overbooked promotion in the world at the moment. I've seen a bunch of solid SAW tv matches ruined by run-ins, ref bumps and other assorted bullshit and it's soured me some on the promotion, even as I acknowledge that many of my favorites have and/or are working their regularly (Vordell Walker, Damien Wayne, The Untouchables and others). That said their shows are uploaded with regularity to youtube, so they are easy to follow and when they have a good show it is usually really good. This weeks tv is a strong example as there were two really good tag matches on it, including the best Tracy Smothers match I've seen in several years. Metro Pro has a web show (it may or may not be on "real" tv) that is often times really, really good and often times completely skippable. I'm a fan of Jeremy Wyatt, Mike Sydal, Bradley Charles, The Hooligans and ACH (who was a regular there for a while though I'm not sure that he still is as their taping cycle is broad) and more often than not one of these guys is on a show so that's a plus. They also have been known to give these guys a lot of time to work which is another plus and Wyatt has been working a bit this year where he is wrestling a cast of indie all-stars from elsewhere which is a cool idea in theory. Traditional Championship Wrestling has a very well produced show and in a way feels more "big time" then almost any other indie fed you could name, but I'm not enamored with the talent roster. Still TCW has put on some good matches, including a Lance Hoyt v. Chris Masters match from a couple of weeks back that is one of the better U.S. indie matches I've seen this year. I could actually see an argument that their show may be the easiest to absorb because of the strength of the presentation which is more of a t.v. product than SAW (or for that matter DSCW or Empire who's matches almost always are just fancams though Empire in particular is very strong about using social media to promote shows and keep you up on the latest angles/storylines). NWA Anarchy is also uploaded regularly (and featured on their site) and of course is basically the heir to Wildside. Anarchy is nowhere near the level of Wildside in my view, but they have some of the same faces, it is a real show and there is some strong talent their. My experience with them over the last couple of years is that you get a lot of "pretty good" stuff, but very little that blows you away. That's still more than I could say for ROH tv though. I really have enjoyed a lot of Wrestleforce stuff lately and they are semi-local so that is cool, but it's another fancam thing and you never know when or what will pop up. NWA Houston has also put on some stuff I've really loved in the last two years, but again it only sporadically pops up. Anyhow this is a needlessly long response. My shorter summation/answer would be that Empire and DSCW are basically 1 and 1a. as far as being my current favorites, but they don't have "shows" in the tv sense (well DSCW does but I think but it's never uploaded). If you are looking for an indies with an actual show I think it's much harder to pick and all of the above have pros and cons.

Has anyone seen this? Furthermore what does it say about me that I really want to see it?

Thanks for the heads up here, I'm a big Dynamite fan

I haven't. Would not mind trying to get all of Sami's last indie run in, but I'm not sure what all I'm missing

Awesome post Vinnie. I love reading stuff like this.

No need to apologize. I could give a fuck about Devitt, but this is the longest post in rovert boarding history and I am proud to have it in my thread

For reasons I cannot completely explain, I have decided to watch as much wrestling as I can from 2013. Obviously I am primarily interested in good wrestling, but the point is that I am watching more current wrestling than any point in recent history as I watch tons of Lucha, random U.S. indies, stuff from Europe and of course WWE every week. I have even made an effort to watch a lot more Japan this year (I've probably watched more than any year since 06). Of course every year I do a WKO ballot, which is a top 100 for the calendar year. But this year I am seriously entertaining the idea of doing my own top five hundred. Why? Well largely because I'm a list obsessed dork, but I also like the idea of having some sort of archival reference I can go back to down the road and given everything I've watched the usual 100 seems limiting. 500 is of course a large number short for and perhaps excessive, but it's my tentative goal here at the half way point of the year. In any case despite my best efforts to watch damn near everything I realize I have some real blind spots. Obviously I can't keep up with every indie on the planet and there are other feds I really loathe but I don't want to completely ignore. So what I would like this thread to be is a place where people can suggest stuff to me that they think I may have missed or stuff I may like or stuff I should try and look out for. For the short term I need some suggestions from a few feds of note. I don't watch Dragon Gate, but want to give at least some of it a chance, though it goes against my better judgment. A short list of the most pimped stuff they've done this year or things people might think I would like would be appreciated. I also need a heads up on PWG, which I haven't seen at all this year. And then there is TNA, which I watch sporadically at best. If there have been any really good matches on Impact this year I'd like to know what they are so I can go back and give them a look. For the record here is a list of indie feds I follow regularly or as closely as I can through their youtube pages (or a youtube page that uploads some of their stuff) or through their websites. Traditional Championship Wrestling Rampage Pro Wrestling NWA Anarchy Empire Wrestling Entertainment Deep Southern Championship Wrestling Metro Pro Wrestling NWA Showtime All Star Wrestling NWA Smoky Mountain Ring of Honor House of Glory CWF Mid-Atlantic Wrestleforce Pro Wrestling Syndicate Combat Zone Wrestling All Star Wrestling (UK) World Wrestling Council (PR) Supreme Pro Wrestling All Pro Wrestling NWA Florida Underground Wrestling NWA Houston South Georgia Championship Wrestling Old School Championship Wrestling Pro Wrestling Rockstar Portland Wrestling Uncut WXW (Pretty sure this is Afa/Sika fed) Vintage Pro Wrestling So yeah if anyone wants to help me out with this vanity project, use this thread to do it.

Well I don't agree with Meltzer on wrestling matches very often at this point. If anything the gap is widening. I actually watched Goto v. Shibata already as a stand alone the other day. Pretty much the only thing it had going for it was stiffness. Goto is a really flat and uninteresting wrestler to me. New Japan badly needs Sak to return, which I believe is happening soon.

The only thing on this show that looks like it might appeal to me on any level is Ishii/Nak v. Suzuki/Benjamin and even that is hard to say because Benjamin is there. After watching this shit HoH show, no way in hell I have the stomach to sit through this entire thing right now

To be fair to Bryan - and I often take a more moderate line on him because I tire of the default "best in the world" tag affixed to him even when I acknowledge that this year he's as good an over all act as there is - if you want to book a big main event for ratings effect Randy Orton is not the guy you want in it

House of Hardcore 2 Crowbar v. Hale Collins I get the idea of booking a veteran v. young athletic guy to open a show, but man this didn't work out as planned. The last few times I have seen Crowbar he's pleasantly surprised me, and in at least one of those occasions it seemed like a real carry job of someone who was completely worthless, but boy did he look like shit here. I don't expect anything from Collins, but less than a minute in Crowbar is throwing some of the worst punches I've ever seen and telegraphing really basic shit. Later he throws possibly the two weakest non-Tom Zenk kicks I've ever seen in wrestling. Then they have this really awkward moment where Crowbar rolls out of what was obviously supposed to be some sort of spot on the top and Collins has to chase him down and clumsily try and reassert himself. I mean Collins is really poor here to, manages to get a "you fucked up chant" less than two minutes into the match, struggles to run the ropes, throws his own shitty kicks, but again I don't expect anything out of him. I don't expect MOTYC's from Crowbar, but I do expect competence and didn't get it. Post-match Crowbar announces his retirement, though the mic was shitty and you couldn't hear him. If this is the best he's got left it's probably time to go. Vik Dalishus v. Little Guido The opener left me really cold which is always strange because sometimes that means my expectations are lower and other times it means I need something to keep me interested. In this case it was kind of both and while this was a perfectly okay match, it really didn't help keep me interested. Again I understand the idea of booking veteran v. young athletic guy, but opening the show with two matches of that ilk feels like a big mistake, especially when the vets in both matches are arguably more athletic then the guys they were working. Guido still moves well and hits his spots nicely, but this didn't really get any time to develop. Most impressive thing was probably Dalishus big bump off the top. This wasn't bad or anything, but would have been the third or fourth best match on an average episode of 1996 edition of WCW Saturday Night. Now at this point I am pretty down on this show and thinking "well it can't get much worse, I mean hell Dreamer's first show was really good." And then....I don't know what the fuck happened. Dalishus calls out any ECW alumni in the back. So Meanie shows up. Somehow this turns into the Harlem Shake. Then Guido and Meanie beat Dalishus ass. Then The Sandman shows up without his beer but looking disturbingly similar to Robert Fuller. At this point I'm thinking here it comes, Sandman is going to beat a woman with this cane. Instead the massively breasted black lady who had been Dalishus' valet starts dancing with Sandman to Fandango's song. Then her wig falls off. Right after this Sandman canes the weird Jason Knight/Disco Inferno hybrid that was managing Dalishus' (yes Dalishus' had seconds, god knows why). Then he puts on the wig and starts strutting around, but refuses to join Guido and Meanie when they strut. And then they leave. So yeah. That happened. Sami Callihan v. MVP I am a Callihan apologist, but this match really didn't work. This was MVP's first match since January and it really showed as he seemed lost a couple of times and they never seemed to pick a direction for the match. The opening strike flurry was a ton of fun and the reckless brawling was pretty insane for a guy who is about to go to the WWE (hurling himself, his opponent and chairs onto fans seems pretty unwise), but then this sort of settled into a more straight forward match and lost a ton of steam every time MVP went on offense. To be fair Callihan really was selling the shit out of MVP's stuff, it's just MVP's stuff isn't all that convincing. Sami's offense looked good, but there was a real contrast here that was distracting, especially when Sami took the fall off of kick that didn't look all that impressive. Far from a bad match, but I wanted something better from Callihan's indie swan song. Mike Bennett v. Carlito I am actually a fan of Bennett's, but at this point on the show the last thing I want to see is 2013 Carlito. This is quickly compounded by the fact that 2013 Carlito went out and stole the 2013 Shelton Benjamin spot where he sneaks in and molests Maria, who thinks she's being molested by Bennett. Rosita ends up running out and of course from there the match sort of goes where you would expect it to go, with a cat fight sequence, Maria getting an apple spit in her face and a ref allowing Carlito/Rosita to double pin Bennett. This was dogshit and a waste of Bennett, who desperately needs to go to the WWE. Alex Reynolds v. Anthony Nese v. Petey Williams Holy fucking shit. I mean if you had said to me "hey Dylan, what match do you absolutely not want to see under any circumstances?" there is a good chance I would have said "Three Way Dance involving Petey Williams." This especially pisses me off because Reynolds v. Nese from the first HoH show was a real pleasant surprise and because the show has been a complete piece of trash up until this point. Having said that, and perhaps because this benefited from exceptionally low expectations, the first half of this was perfectly watchable. In a way this kind of reminded me of your pre-Impact era TNA X-Division match, where there were some overly cute spots that didn't work, but others that really did work and then things just descend into a bunch of "stuff" that blends together and your eyes glaze over and you don't give a fuck . Nese in particular really does some impressive shit, though I've seen enough of him at this point where I know he's not a particularly good worker. Petey is still Petey and his finisher is still over and I still hate it. Still on a shit show up to this point, this wasn't as awful as it could have been. The Steiner Brothers v. Eddie Kingston/Homicide I'll admit it, this sort of qualifies as a dream match to me on paper, though in my mind it's The Steiners from 1990 and Eddie/Homicide from JAPW days and there was never any chance that this good live up to that. Still I had hoped we'd get six or seven minutes of decent brawling and a big Homicide bump to set up a Steiners win. Instead we got Rick as FIP, a couple of fun Steiners signature spots and a shitty looking Kingston bump to set up finish. Scott still has a ton of presence and this wasn't the worst thing on the show, but even setting aside silly dream match fantasies, this should have been better. Too Cold Scorpio v. John Morrison I don't really have faith in Morrison, but I have a ton of faith in Scorpio who pretty much never disappoints and had a good match with Marty Jannetty of all people earlier this year. Coming in this looked like the match most likely to steal the show, but given how things were going up until this point, they were basically going out there to save it. And then a few minutes into the match they do a dance off. I really don't know why I would have expected anything else on this show and it was ostensibly done as a way to set up Scorp working heel, but god did it piss me off. From there the match sort of takes the form of Sami v. MVP. When Scorp is on offense the match isn't bad and he hits a lot of his fun signature spots well. When Morrison is on offense? Well it helps to have offense that looks like it could hurt a sentient being and Morrison really didn't show that here. The over all effect was that a match I was looking forward to, went on for what seemed like an hour, and never even grabbed me enough to lose me. Even worse than that, they completely lost the crowd who spent the last several minutes doing obnoxious chants for talent that wasn't on the show in the vein of the night after Mania Raw crowd from this year. Super disappointing match, hopefully I never have to see Morrison wrestle again and hopefully Scorp gets booked against someone at least at the level as current Marty Jannetty the next time he pops up. The Young Bucks v. Paul London/Brian Kendrick I really did enjoy the match these two had together at the first HoH show, though the constant selling of it as the show stealer on the first show by the announcers here was pretty annoying. Having said that this, was a good match on a show, where the next best match merely flirted with "pretty good." The Bucks are so much better as heels I can't believe anyone would ever book them as faces. Virtually every annoying thing they do can become a positive when they work the way they worked in this match and they actually were quite good working on top in this. Loved the way they set up the initial London FIP by cutting off the Londrick double dive spot and the fact that they did an AWA double FIP bit in this match was a really nice touch. I was equally impressed by London and Kendrick here as they really sold the shit out of the Bucks stuff, worked pretty stiff and were great at reeling off their highspots in a timely manner. I could have lived without the tombstone on the floor, but at least the near fall after it was presented as a big deal. The conspiracy theorists in me almost wants to believe the rest of this show was sabotaged to give this a MOTY buzz, as it certainly stands out more than it would on even an average show. Of course this wasn't near a MOTYC, but it was at least something that didn't feel like a complete waste of my time. Lance Storm v. Tommy Dreamer Aw fuck. If you were to ask me "other than Petey Williams and 2013 Carlito, what wrestler on Earth do you have the least interest in watching?" probably a 75% chance at worst I say Lance Storm. I respect Dreamer because he always tries hard and these guys did have a complete miracle of a match back in 99 on ppv, but fuck at this stage in the game Lance Storm is not what this show needs. It was nice to see Terry Funk come out to big applause, because it's Terry Funk and I will mark out for him forever, but this was a gloriously boring affair. I guess on the surface level there was nothing wrong with this, though the pre-match respect bit seemed out of place when they were just going to turn around and work a Dreamer style brawl. But then they do the weird bit with Funk snapping and getting involved and X-Pac of all people showing up to double team Funk with Storm and then a silly finish and it was just a clusterfuck. I didn't have the patience to sit through the pre-match round of speeches here, but I think I can forgive myself for slightly cheating on watching this till the bitter end because the whole experience has been painful. Overall Thoughts The first show was the most surprisingly really good wrestling show I have seen in a long time and this was the exact opposite. I suppose the lineup should have told me it wasn't going to be as good as the first show, but I don't think there was any reason to expect something as bad as this. This is probably the worst top to bottom show I've seen all year, with a few outright stinkers, a few matches that were just there, a couple of really disappointing matches and then the tag match, which was pretty good but nowhere near enough to save the show.

Bob Esponja, Lady Maravilla, Patricio Estrella vs Buzz Lightyear, Chelly Rock, Sky Kid ACM 5/12 Patrick and Spongebob are babyfaces, but Buzz is a rudo for lack of a better term.

This is an odd statement since this is precisely what they did to Christian last week and not very much of what they were doing in the weeks prior to that. Invoking NWO is a serviceable strawman though Yeah, and Christian now is facing them because of it and got a measure of revenge leading to the PPV. I'm not saying get rid of the Shield run ins, it's an over gimmick. But eventually they can't always dominate. And don't give me that straw man bullshit. It's a fair comparison and "straw man" is one those worn out expressions that's fucking annoying. Where did I call for The Shield to dominate anyone in that post? They were an over act, easily the most "special" thing in the WWE since Henry's heel run (if not before then in some ways) and now they are losing to the fucking Uso's and Christian on a random episode of Smackdown. This is a thread about how the "boys in the back" would bring them down and whether or not this has anything to do with backstage politics, it's pretty fucking difficult to argue that this isn't a pretty massive demotion. Your post didn't even make sense. You bitch about how The Shield can't run in and destroy everyone because that's just as boring and annoying as the NWO......except the very booking you are defending was predicated on The Shield destroying a guy, and in weeks prior to the big focus of their push has been in actually matches where they worked the numbers game/team work to their advantage. As for the straw man stuff, well if you don't want to be given that "bullshit" don't making straw man arguments. If the NWO comparison is so "fair" why don't you make it, instead of setting up a transparently obvious false dichotomy where if The Shield isn't feuding/losing to The Usos/Christian in an unpromoted, random , SD match, then they must be out destroying people 3-on-1 and somehow being exactly the same as the NWO in doing so (because lord knows three guys called up from developmental less than a year ago, are the exact same as Hogan and co.). I'm sorry if you find the term worn out and annoying, but I find your WWE apologistia gimmick worn out and fucking annoying to, though I still try and engage on the points.

This is an odd statement since this is precisely what they did to Christian last week and not very much of what they were doing in the weeks prior to that. Invoking NWO is a serviceable strawman though

This is all well and good and I like all parties, but no serious person can debate that The Shield push has leveled off at best

New tag team feud for Rollins/Regins? The Usos! I like those guys and think they deserve a shot, but if this isn't the ultimate backburner spot for The Shield I don't know what is. Maybe they'll feud Ambrose with Justin Gabriel

If The Briscoes leave ROH basically has nothing worth watching

It's not even news anymore when an ROH ippv shits the bed.

Pete's super posts our outstanding. I really wish they were posted in the general wrestling forum as well because I fear they get less eyes on them in here and they could be great kickstarters to discussion as well

Musgrave is a DG fan

Rogers being one of the better guys in ECW is a myth. It's a myth I pushed for a while, but after watching the footage it's just not true. To be fair part of that was that he didn't get the chances others got, but I was deliberately looking for a Rogers performance to push for the ECW Set and couldn't find one I could get behind in any real way. Having said that I would take Rogers over Lane

Flair v. Funk is what made me a fan for life. Flair v. Steamboat was a transcendent rivalry that lasted on and off for almost twenty years. The final slot is the hardest for me personally. In the end I have to go Flair v. Luger because at it's peak it was absolutely red hot and actually felt like something you could have built a major promotion around for some time.

I could almost understand the "I can't buy Punk against Lesnar" argument before the HHH feud. But after HHH feud where Lesnar came out looking like just another guy forget it.

I think that's a couple of months old, because if I'm not mistaken they are no longer publishing The Wrestler and Inside Wrestling