Dylan Waco

I would note that you can make an argument that WWE lower mid-card, undercard worker is arguably better gig than all but the absolute top of the heap TNA guys and was even in 2005. I'm not talking about money either (though I think that's a net win for WWE guys in a lot of cases too), but in the sense that if you have the right friends and are open to anything you can stick around for a long time (Stevie Richards, Bob Holly, et) and even if you get fired your name will command far more on the indie circuit than will "former TNA star!"

Possible that they would actually, but setting that aside the stench of TNA is not so much a fan issue as a promoter issue. I.E. Vince is not going to do much with a "TNA" guy

I actually think Hennig was an extremely adaptable wrestler at his peak. I think the AWA Set proves that and Portland stuff that will eventually appear on that set adds to that. He was a great white meat babyface and a great cocky heel. He could work as a whippersnapper challenger to Bock, a fiery babyface seeking revenge against Hansen, or NWA champ style studio main event style as heel v. super limited guys like Mitch Snow or DJ Peterson. He was a very strong tag worker. He worked extremely stiff and was an excellent brawler when called on to brawl. He had very good timing as a babyface making comebacks and was excellent running the gamut between "registering" and "dying" when selling. He was a great bumper both as a face and a heel. He had some very dynamic highspots for the era and was a great athlete. He was actually quite adept on the mat for the style of mat work he was working. He was able to save and/or make convoluted or poorly thought out gimmick matches work. To be honest I think pre-WWF Hennig was far more adaptable then someone like Bret Hart, but I sometimes think my definition of adaptable is different then others.

I am too lazy to look back through the thread now, but I think I did mention the strongman aspect/power spots a few times. I suspect his ability to do those things did matter some, though I don't think that was the primary reason for interest.

I assume Joe keeps resigning because the track record of guys coming from TNA to WWE is not particularly good. He's probably never going to be a top star sort of guy at this point, but at least TNA is the devil he knows at this point. I've talked a lot on boards and podcasts about guys like Sabu and Rey who were the last of the guys that really got hard pushes pre-digital age. You had to stumble upon them or go seek them out and it was almost the equivalent of a wrestling pilgrimage when you finally were able to track them down. Best of all they lived up to the hype from PWI, early net, newsletters, word of mouth, et. when you finally saw them. Those days are gone, but I will say that in some respects Joe coming to TNA was the last case I can remember of something like that. I remember when he came in I had been pushing him hard to friends that only watched/got WWE. This was pre-youtube explosion, so unless you were a hardcore fan buying tapes/dvds from some place you MIGHT have heard of Joe but you had no clue who he was. I actually called my brothers to let them know Joe was working TNA the night he debuted and called some others too. I had people calling me after talking about how great he was, how different he was, et. When Joe started in TNA he had that Sabu-esque buzz. It wasn't exactly the same, but he was the closest guy I can remember to hitting that point in the digital age. Actually there is built in storyline here and I suspect feud with Ortiz/Joe over Ortiz stealing Joe's towel for rallying purposes (or vice versa depending on preferred face/heel dynamic) could have been effective filler for ECW relaunch. Watching Joe last year he showed flashes. Aries got a very good match out of him on ppv and he was in some fun tags. But really it was equivalent of watching West Texas Rednecks era Barry Windham. Older, lazy guy, who starts to care a bit more in new setting and is one of the better things about a terrible promotion, really is a pretty massive fall from versatile young guy, who was regarded as one of if not the best wrestler on earth. That is also the biggest difference between Joe and Styles. There were people high on AJ to be sure, but I'm not sure anyone was pushing Styles as a best in the world type. From 03-06 Joe was a guy who often came up in conversations about the best wrestler on earth. AJ was always a few pegs (minimum) down from that. Also worth noting that erotic face paint Joe, was about as embarrassing a neutering of any "tough guy" or "monster" wrestler I can remember precisely because it wasn't so overt. At the end of the day Khali busting a move is really the best use of his "talent," Cockfaced Joe felt like a case of adding something for the purposes of subtraction. Completely undermined his aura which was one of the last things he had going for him even after TNA booking, laziness, et had already started to take over.

Agree that you have to get to the root, but Backlund was never cast as "great white hope," though he worked his fair share of "evil" foreigners I'm sure (though Sheik is the only one I can think of off hand). More to the point "the white boys" was not an ethnic group in any meaningful sense of the term.

They have always had some good wrestlers but the old "TNA has a great talent roster!" talking point is one I don't buy. For every ruined Samoa Joe, you've got shitastic X Division guy number 50837, or Ken Anderson, or Rob Terry, or Matt Morgan, or Abyss, or one of the non-Doc/Mike Knox Aces and Eights scrubs, et. I get that people like acts like Daniels/Kaz and Bobby Roode more than I do, but TNA has more than it's fair share of complete dogshit

Piper as kilt appraiser was one of the more bizarre things I"ve seen on tv recently. I like Storage Wars, but losing their top heel may kill the territory

I almost mentioned the Doink stuff because I really like it. It's possible the rest of that year holds up well to. Even still it's not the norm for his post-AWA career

I agree with Childs Mr. Perfect was an incredibly fun gimmick and you can find spirited and perhaps even great Hennig matches/performances under that gimmick. But he was never the same after he went to Vince. I'd say from the cumulative period between 82-88 Hennig was top twenty in the world and you could probably make a case for him in the top ten.

Edge is a modern star that was marketed and promoted as a major star very recently. Doesn't surprise me he'd have a big crowd

Don't know how I missed The Steiners error

I literally cannot imagine being a closeted fan. It doesn't seem like it's even worth the effort to be honest. If I was that far in the closet I just wouldn't watch.

What great things has it done?

I love wrestling. I don't like dogshit. So I don't like TNA

I can't remember the exact timeline with him, but the only period where I could envision him splitting would have been after CWF when he was working in Pensacola for what I imagine wasn't the best pay even if he was on or near the top. Even that feels like a massive stretch

This is completely understandable. In my case I think if I wasn't scouring old footage/youtube, et. for stuff that has been seldom seen/talked about a lot of the interest I have would wane. This doesn't always take the form of watching full shows, but that's part of it

I think there is something to be said for watching whole shows. That is the principle that has led to tons of discoveries for the 80's projects and things like the ECW Set. It also has led me to discover some new workers and surprising standout matches in the modern context that I otherwise might have completely missed. Having said that no one has the time to watch every show in complete, so you have to prioritize. I try to watch the pimped shows and shows that have an obvious novelty to them from beginning to end. This means I watch far more NJPW and PWS than I should given my tastes.

I think Patterson was seen at that point as a guy who's best years were behind him. Same with Pedro, albeit to a somewhat lesser extent perhaps. I don't think there was a shot in hell of it, but the idea of Garvin or Leo as champ is hilariously awesome

I feel like that pic belongs in Johnny Sorrow's sig next to Lick-A-Chick

It makes enough sense to me, it's the one Misawa-Kobashi match you can figure the most people on the west have seen. Didn't it even air on The Wrestling Channel and/or The Fight Network? I have no clue, did it? I saw it once about three years ago. Had never seen it before, never heard all THAT much about it and will probably never watch it again.

A lot of this depends on when you became a fan/hardcore fan. To me I look at something like the Misawa/Kobashi match from 03 and think "why the fuck is that on the list?," but maybe it means a ton more to people who came along a little bit after I did.

At that point the people still coming were absolute diehards, so the crowds were really hot. I started going to shows in the mid-80's and still go today obviously. I'd say seven or eight of the craziest crowds I've ever been a part of were during that era. Part of that may just be the way I remember it of course.

I watched the Bastien match the other day. It was cool to see because Red was a huge influence on Buddy, but it wasn't close to high end Buddy and in a way was a bit disappointing. Having said that it was definitely a really effective match for what they were going for. Also Rip Rogers apparently loves it

I don't think any promotion has been anything like 92 WCW where the crowds were such complete dogshit and yet the quality of work week-to-week was so incredible. I'm biased because I was going to lots of shows live at that point and that was really the peak of my formative years as a fan, but there were probably ten to fifteen guys in WCW that year that had years I would rate really highly. I think Larry Z was better than Eaton in 92. Granted I haven't watched a ton of DA stuff in about six years or so, but the last time I went through it I went through a whole lot of it and Larry was a real revelation. Its not a knock on Eaton who in terms of rough athleticism and big spots is as good a wrestler as anyone on earth from that period, but Larry to me jumped off the page more. Maybe that would change if I went through the stuff again which I'm overdue to do. On the Horseman, I have zero problem with people rating them ahead of the DA, but in terms of presenting week-to-week, show-to-show, quality with virtually every imaginable combination I can't take anyone over the DA