Dylan Waco

If it was a show in Charleston from 85-02 pretty much guaranteed I was there

To me it's at least partially a matter of expectations - that should have been a great match. Instead it felt like two teams going through the motions just waiting to get their pay day. In a sense I don't blame them given the condition of the AWA at the time, but there is literally nothing interesting or dynamic about the match at all. On the Adonis/Orton tag being overrated because of moves, I would argue that moves aren't innately bad and can help a match. This is an example of dynamic, interesting, violent looking offense helping a match. And again these two teams really had no incentive to work as hard as they did

To be clear I'm not even saying that Luger was on record liking to work with young guys - he may have hated it. But he seemed comfortable doing it at a point when most of the upper tier WCW guys absolutely did not. Also - and I should have mentioned this on the show - but him taking a massive pay cut to come in to WCW probably merited some discussion as Luger was on the front end of guaranteed contracts/agents in wrestling, and then ended up being a rare guy in WCW during the MNW's who didn't clean up with Eric on a massive deal.

What are the odds I would like any of that stuff? I'm not trolling, being serious here

I've seen a couple of IWC maches this year (Hollis v. Matthews qualifer comes to mind as one though I know I saw at least one other), but not much. If you have specific shows/matches to recommend feel free to do so here. First on Hama - we just disagree. I really like Hama a lot. He's not my absolute favorite or anything, but I thought he was easily the best guy on a night to night basis in the Carny this year (which I watched a lot of). On Punk - frankly if not for the Cena Raw match he doesn't make the first half list at all. In truth I thought he sucked dick for most of the first half of the year. His matches either followed a very modern ROHish NEAR FALLS, BACK AND FOURTH! pattern which I generally dislike, where sloppy as fuck or he looked unmotivated as all hell. I do think he will show up for the Brock match though. On Regal - He's a controversial pick for the top ten because it's almost entirely on the strength of one match (though the little tidbits where he's showed up other times he always looks good), but here is the the thing - he was easily the best guy in the match that I think is easily the best match so far this year. I can see the argument for ranking him lower, but when I look at the guys who I have below him it's either guys who were consistently good/very good, but with nothing even bordering on an outstanding performance or guys who might have looked tremendous in one match but were really off in others (Akiyama for example). The only guy I could maybe be convinced I should have had above him is Show. Everyone else lacks the homerun you need to lap a guy with a performance that great, especially for a list that is first half of the year only

What happened is what happened. So why don't we delete all the fantasy booking since it isn't what happened. It's circular and gets us nowhere. Ted was in the UWF when it was sold. He was in it while the sale was being negotiated. Even after the sale, he stuck around before heading to Vince as the heel turn comment was posted above (and there even was Ted on commentary of Doc's arm getting "broken"). My comment was/is on getting to Ted before he even thinks about talked to Vince. I mean... if Vince had a massive boner for him, he could have signed him at the same time he was chasing Duggan. He didn't. What you're arguing about... I never said. Nor implied. Thought my breaking down of talent into buckets was explicitly clear. Three quick things. 1. You and I (and others) have really hit other people hard in fantasy/theoretical booking scenarios before over the viability of options. My issue here isn't "all fantasy booking is stupid," but "if we hold others to that standard we should hold ourselves to the same standard." 2. This ties to point 1, but I don't think there is a whole lot of reason to buy the argument that Ted was ever terribly likely to end up in Crockett long term. I see your argument - when negotiating with Watts hammer home the point that you want Ted - but I think even within the realms of fantasy booking it is a stretch to believe that Ted was going to go there if Vince made any sort offer. Had Vince made an offer? We don't know. But I think it is pretty likely that DiBiase would have explored that option on his own before inking with Crockett even in the scenario you are proposing. And if we buy the argument that Hulk was always going to go to NY no matter what Verne did (and I know we both do), I think you can make a case that Ted was too (we may differ here which is fine - but it makes our premises fundamentally different so I don't know where to go from there). 3. On your breaking down of talent, I understand that you were "tiering" them off. My point - which I think was transparently obvious - was that in 1986/87 if you were looking at potential and/or value to the company I think it stretches the bounds of belief to argue that Sting was a more logical pick than Williams or Gang. "But Sting was lower costs" is the counter and I get that too (though I do wonder how much cheaper he was), but I would argue that I don't know of any evidence to support the argument that Sting was seen as a guy with solid potential (I'm not well versed in the WON's from the time, so if I'm wrong steer me to it), or that Gang/Williams were seen as guys that wouldn't have some value at the time. I could see saying "I don't want any of them," or even saying "I'll take Sting and some of these other middling guys for slot filling positions," but I don't really see the non-hindsight case where the end result is "Sting is a solid prospect we can get for cheap/Williams and Gang? Fuck Em."

I agree with Jerry on that BC/Rockers match. Actually I think he's being to kind. I have yet to finish a ballot, but it's in my bottom five, if not bottom three.

If you frame it as a choice between Doc and Ted as jdw does, obviously you take Ted. But so far as I know there is less than no evidence to support the theory that that is what occurred. If I'm wrong point me to it, but as far as I know the reality is that Ted went with Vince and was probably going to take Vince over any offer Crockett could have made. My point was if you ignore the fantasy world where Ted goes to Crockett, I find it hard to believe that anyone in 86/87 would say "Boy that Sting is a MUCH better pic up than Doc or Gang!"

I might be willing to buy the argument that someone saw decent star potential in Sting relative to some of those other names, but no way in hell you are going to convince me that Sting was a more logical pick up in 87 than Williams or Gang.

Craziest reaction I've ever been a part of live at any event. Building was literally shaking when Sting came down and my non fan brother was jumping up and down in the aisles literally hugging strangers.

I don't think Orton cashing in on Bryan would be bad at all or hurt Bryan. It would basically be Punk/Hardy 2.0 and that is a feud that did wonders for both guys (until Jeff went all Jeff on us)

Luger should have gone over Flair in 88. In my view that has a lot to do with why business was down at the front end of 89

Buddy got pissed at Shire and came down to the ring and cut a shoot promo about how all the favorites don't work San Fran anymore because Shire is a liar and a fraud (among other things). Also for a sports club in the states that died for pissing off the fans, the Charlotte Hornets come to mind. I'll comment more on "dying towns" later when I get off work

I think it's obvious they are setting up for Orton to cash in seconds after Bryan wins

Rey had a better match with Shelton than Shawn did. Also IIRC Eddie/Tajiri v. WGTT was a good bit better

We cover that on the podcast, but basically there is handheld footage from a fan that they were able to use

Michael just sent along the latest trailer he's done, which includes some brief glimpses of the footage with the Crockett's

This was a really good piece.

I have seen a lot of people bash Crockett over the years as a clueless idiot, who "let Vince win" and other thinks of that sort. Pretty stupid in my opinion, but I could see how he wouldn't want to deal with any of that sort of stuff or people bombarding him with questions about the family business that went under on his watch

I admit that the story sounds like bullshit, but it's worth noting that Greg Gagne is one of the all time great delusional liars in the history of wrestling. Top tier

Dave and I just finished up with Michael about forty minutes ago. Really fun interview. His story on how he was finally able to get the Crockett's to speak on camera is pretty great. http://www.talkshoe.com/talkshoe/web/talkC...2658&cmd=tc

Matt Morgan is an awful, awful, wrestler

7500 in Detroit is in some ways even better than it sounds because Detroit is perhaps the ultimate in wrestling towns that was completely burned to the ground by the home promotion. Detroit was completely DOA until 85 when Vince was finally able to open it up and sell the place out for record gates behind Valentine/Tito and Patera/Studd v. Andre/JYD.

I'm not an Angle fan, but I think my list would be Rey, Austin, Undertaker up top and then....Jeff Jarrett?

Just set this up, but it looks like the filmmaker Michael Elliot will be doing Wrestling Culture with me and Dave tomorrow morning