Dylan Waco

There are a multitude of reasons I don't think the synch ups are for me, some of which are pure logistics (nine out of ten times I get banned to the great outdoors during podcasts because as Johnny, Dave, Will and others know I am a loud, obnoxious, motherfucker on the phone). But in no way do I think it is innately "wrong" to watch wrestling that way or even to construct your ballot solely on how you felt watching the match while on the phone with others. I do not feel in any way that is constructive for me, but I don't think it's some horrible, awful thing with no value.

I'd imagine they don't even remember anything about the matches, besides that they happened. Buddy is dead now, but he's talked in great detail about the matches in public forums more than once.

I invite you to find the location in this thread, the DVDVR or thread or any personal communication I've had with you where I said anything close to this. I do like the match as I've said multiple places. But I like it less with each viewing and I think it is easily the most flawed match of the feud. It will be behind the title change, the other cage, the 8/86 match and both of the six-mans on my ballot. It will be ahead of the Wrestlerock match because that match - while entertaining - is really just the front end of a good match that doesn't get the time to really "finish." It will also very likely finish ahead of Buddy v. Marty. Very strong possibility it will be in my top fifty. Top thirty? I kind of doubt it. But at no point have I said I "don't like the match now." That's pure fantasy.

I don't know your mother Slasher or Nell, but if she died alone in a hotel room after a life time of alcoholism, and I said "it's a shame she was a drunk, she baked good cookies," it would be a pretty myopic and absurd way of looking at things. I'm about as cynical as it gets when it comes to wrestling deaths at this point, but I don't think it's being overly sensitive to point out that those sort of statements don't exactly reflect well on the poster of them

Like I said, I didn't like it nearly as much on subsequent viewings.

Funny, I had a phone conversation with someone where we talked about Matt's thoughts on the match and he was almost in complete agreement with him, though like me believed he took them too far. There was plenty of nasty stuff in the match, particularly during the heel control segment. My problem is I thought the front end of the match was the definition of gratuitous. It just went on way too long. I hated the pull ups on the falls in practice. In principle I don't have a problem with them, but where they were placed in the match just felt idiotic to me. I completely agree with Matt that it was a heat killer and it absolutely would have been for me if I was live in the building. I also didn't like the way the cage was used early, mainly the spots with Marty blowing shit off. If there had been a mini-heat segment bridging from a shine into some of this stuff I think I would have liked it a ton better, but all of that as part of the shine? I don't buy The Rockers as The Road Warriors, especially not in 1986. If people like and even love the front end of the match that is fine, but I really like it less and less on every new viewing of the match. I think once the heels are in control it's excellent, but up until that point I wasn't buying what they were selling as a package even though I like several of the spots during the front end.

I get that aspect of things, which is one of the reasons I don't hate the match like Matt does. But I don't the execution was nearly as good as the idea. I thought of all the matches it was the only match where I felt like The Rockers were showing how green they were and I thought the faces in control stuff really ate up an unnecessary large amount of the match. I do LOVE Doug Somers in that match though. In any event my point is that I'm kind of in between parties on this because I like the match and agree that it is part of the story of the feud, but also completely understand - and in many respects agree - with Matt's criticisms.

Who says I'm not certifiably insane?

I agree with almost all of Matt's criticisms of the match, I just think he takes them to far. Didn't like the match nearly as much on second (and third) watches as first watch. Won't be anywhere near the bottom of my ballot, but of matches involving Rockers v. Rose/Somers combo it will be sixth on my ballot

You told me there kid

Because that like everything else in these peoples lives would have been all over the tv, internet, message boards, dressing rooms on nc indies where Im at constantly & everywhere else people talk & gossip. Bruce Mitchell is too and he said he has been in serious lock down style rehab in the past. Meltzer used to refer to a serious monthly outgoing Ric had that was personal that stretched him financially on a month to month type basis. Reid was in two different "lock down" type facilities at different points.

Jesus Christ

If Dave gets back to Toronto in time we will do a WM weekend preview show like we did last year and will cover it in detail then. In the meantime I would just say that I thought the ER shows and the PWS shows were easily the most interesting shows on paper. Mania itself looks like complete and utter dogshit on paper to the point where I turned down multiple chances to go (including free tickets twice) and I'm not going to make a big event out of it (sports bar, party at my house or friends house, et) for the first time in years. Nothing on the "name" indie cards looks appealing, at least not in terms of a whole card or even a large part of a card. Honestly the show I'm most looking forward to Mania weekend is Empire Wrestling's show in Rossville, Georiga.

Never complain about analysis again

I don't think Benoit was anywhere near as good as Bryan. This isn't a post-murder revisionist view for me either. I'm not going to play like I thought Benoit was a poor worker or anything insane like that, but one thing that always bothered me about him as a worker is that I never felt emotionally invested in any of his matches. On the one hand you could say that he had outstanding mechanics, was extremely versatile and did sell very well, but on the other end I don't think he was good at emoting in the ring. At all.

Your #4 ranking is entirely because of the last 7 minutes? Don't want to speak for Devon, but I don't think that's a fair way of looking at his point. He's not saying the first 53 minutes sucked, or were average, or were middling. He's saying that the first 53 minutes were good and the last seven minutes were great. I can absolutely see how you could have a match in your top five based on that sort of "equation." I actually think one of the STRENGTHS of the match is that it slowly evolves into being a great match. There really isn't an attempt to cram a bunch of great shit into the opening moments as a way of forcing "classic" down your throat, which is what you often see in modern wrestling even in really strong matches. I actually agree with Devon's point that it never completely feels like an out of this world match until the end. I think it's a great match and expected it to finish first, but I remain shocked at how consensus driven it's been, particularly when there isn't one other match on the entire set that seems to have any sort of consensus around it. On my end I have no clue where I will rank it at the end of the day, but it's looking like I will be the low voter.

Edit: Actually I'm going to keep my mouth shut for now as I don't want to look like a classless jerk even if I am one.

That just makes me angry.

I'm too tired and congested to form a cogent thought right this second, but my point isn't to slam the match. I love the match. My point is that like the AJPW Set the end result really isn't even in doubt and without a "race for one" my interest in that aspect of things is unusually low considering the fact that I worked on this set.

Man Hennig v. Bock is gonna run away with number one. I actually don't think anything is even going to be close in the voting. May be the biggest landslide number one in the history of 80's sets.

Nope. 1990

Because TNA is a terrible, dogshit promotion?

Well, duh. Who wants to analyze pro wrestling matches? (There's a reason why the word starts with "anal") That's crazy. I think that watching wrestling with friends and having fun doing so is a far more productive way to come to conclusions. And all pro wrestling is about violence in one way or another. Guys are pretending to be violent towards each other. If you write or talk about wrestling at all you are analyzing it on some level. If you choose to do that with a group of friends via phone call and find that to be "far more productive" that is fine, but let's not pretend you aren't analyzing things when you are.

It's my number two. To me it's the match that made Curt. He went from a guy teaming with Scott Hall (as the worker who was there to help Hall become a top star), to being a guy you could really believe going toe-to-toe with World Champion and king of the bad asses Stan Hansen in a span of twelve minutes.

I don't think Matt is arguing there is a set way for wrestling to be performed all the time, but I could be reading him wrong