Dylan Waco

Trying to remember if it was The Wrester or Inside Wrestling that ran the section on up and coming indy guys in the early 90's? That was a cool feature at the time for someone who was inbetween being a habitual Apter Mag fan and an Internet Wrestling Geek I'm not going to lie though. I always flipped straight to the rankings and the arena reports then read the rest cover to cover.

I also think you could make the case that HHH beating Booker (especially the way he did) at Mania really hurt Book. He did eventually have the King Booker run but you get the feeling if he had won that match he would have been a huge player for his whole run rather than a guy who just got shuffled from upper mid-card into main event back and fourth at random

(insert team here) v. PG-13 would have been great. Seriously, PG-13 is one of the greatest tag teams of all time.

I'm not sure how much farther he could have really gone but I think it is accepted wisdom that Goldberg's first loss to Nash effectively cut his balls off.

Yes I love the Mistico fanboy argument of "EVERYONE ELSE IS TO BLAME!"

Probably not the thread for it, but I would be interested to see who people think is better. There are a few guys I would consider but no one has been as impressive to me against such a wide variety of guys this year as Drew has

It's a PR thing to claim Trip helped bring in Mistico? That strikes me as being very unlikely.

Don't have any real interest in having the same old debate Jerome and I always have over modern WWE and I don't think there is any real reason to suppose that HHH would be a good influence on the product or has been up to this point having said that... 1. Is the argument that HHH isn't a mark for old school guys/wrestlers, or that he is and doesn't understand it? And if he is a mark for them, what does it matter if he likes bodybuilding? 2. Speaking of which based on what has been reported about Trip and his influence so far the "he is a body building fan and will only push those guys" thing doesn't really work. Sheamus is supposedly close to Trip as is Drew Mac. Both are big though neither has a true body builder look in the way that say Mason Ryan or Ezekiel Jackson do. Sheamus has one of the more unique looks on the roster in fact. It's also worth noting that among people who regularly watch WWE both guys are regarded as near the top of the heap for in ring talent - In fact I think you could make a case that MacIntrye is the best wrestler on Earth right now. 3. Spinoff of point two but allegedly Sin Cara is a HHH pet project. If that's the case that puts the lie to the notion that HHH is only interested in "big guys" if that is what is meant by body builder types. Of course that also puts the lie to the notion that he can recognize talent since Mistico is utter dogshit based on what I have seen of him in the WWE. Still it doesn't fit the narrative.

pretty sure I find the Torch through an ad in an Apter or Napalitano mag. Don't remember which. I was trying to nail down exactly when I subscribed a few months back and honestly don't remember. I THINK it was around my 13th birthday which would have been August of 94, though it may have been a hair later than that. Had definitely been a subscriber for a while by the time the Monday Night Wars officially launched in Sept of 95.

Im 29 and have been around since rspw but i think that is well known

The Cara match was dogshit. Ryan sucks but he's a guy they expect nothing out of and he delivers nothing. Cara is a "spot machine" wrestler that is less impressive than the average backyarder.

Macho deserved more than a graphic. This show sucked though Orton v. Christian had a great stretch run and I liked the Lawler/Cole stuff. Barrett is literally the most boring wrestler on Earth. Just totally uninteresting on every level to the point where I want to change the channel any time he shows up. Sin Cara is just..ugh. I almost hope Chavo did have some injury to explain that performance because otherwise I think it is pretty safe to say Sin Cara is the worst guy on the roster. Main Event was painfully boring. Punk tried but that the tag match never had a chance. Women's match was eh. Truth v. Rey was solid but nothing special. Really a shit show.

Jake The Snake is a name people know, but I doubt the average person could pick him out of a lineup, especially if the Snake wasn't present. I would actually bet money that the average person on the street could either pick Savage out of a lineup by name, gimmick name, or catch phrase ("that's the "OOHHH YEEAAHH" guy).

If they do turn out to be on in Charleston I'll probably watch. It may hold my interest

I agree with that. I would say Savage, Hogan, Rock and Austin are the four guys people have heard of fans or not. Beyond that you have a lot of guys on the next level with it largely depending on geography (Flair is huge down South, but not as much so elsewhere) and age (I imagine a lot of people my age would know who Goldberg is. If you are five or six years older than me (mid-30's) you are probably going to see Andre on that level, et.)

This is admittedly a low end nomination of sorts, but J.T. Smith/Steve Richards v. The Pitbulls is one of the first good FanCam finds (and one of the first FanCam taped shows IIRC) from December of 94.

I would say so. Savage is probably a top five name of the last 30 years if you are looking at the U.S. alone. Also I would argue he was the best all around performer in WWF/E history.

Coloured? I know you say you have grown up, but it seems odd to appropriate the language of 70 year old Southern whites as a way to prove it. Or is that a common term in Britain? Also not sure that is the right term to use when arguing against accusation of racism but whatever. I literally can't believe anyone believes Scorp was less charismatic than Malenko.

I'll come back to this later, but for now I will say: Must see cage match I am going underdog here and taking Edge v. Matt Hardy from Unforgiven 05. For my money it is one of the best WWE/F matches of all time and it is almost totally forgotten. A rare instance of a match where the WWE/F let the less pushed babyface give a complete and totally fuck you to the more over heel. Stretch run is great as they run through a sequence where you figure Edge and Lita are going to screw Matt Hardy out of the win multiple times. Instead Hardy gets his revenge on Lita, kicks out of Edge's finish and wins clean with a pin in the middle of the ring after a huge finishing move. Must see 70's match Bob Backlund v. Greg Valentine 60 minute draw from MSG in 79. Too lazy to look for the exact date but it is a great match, in some ways the first blowaway Backlund match.

I'm not judging the Can Ams based entirely off the Sabu/RVD and Eliminators matches. They had other matches where they didn't look all that good either. They had good matches with Spike and Mikey for example, but the matches were all Spike and Mikey with Furnas and Kroffat looking like the obviously weaker team. As I said before Furnas in particular looked off for most of his ECW run no matter who he was working. The exception was the Arena match with RVD and a long singles with Scorp.

The Can Ams really didn't have it in the U.S. which I think is evident if you watch the ECW footage I have. Strangely I think Kroffat had a better sense of how to work a crowd, but he also had a less engaging look and I'm sure he would have been seen as a Malenko clone in look which is hardly something WCW or anyone else would have seen as a plus. Furnas probably could have been effective as someone's bodyguard but other than that he didn't have the presence or mic skills to survive during the MNW era. Snow was screwed by the way WWF brought him in, but it's hard to see how 95 WCW would have been a better fit. The gimmick he was working in SMW could have been excellent on national tv and would have been better suited for WWF by FAR in my view. Instead he got to be Shinobi, Avatar, Leaf Cassidy, et. and it went nowhere. Scorp I think MIGHT have been better off in WCW though he was so much bigger than the either "cruiserweight" guys I'm not sure how he would have fit in to that set.

I could be misunderstanding people's points but I don't think the argument was that it was "mostly about the match" per se. Just rather that wrestling matches are the defining trait that separates wrestling from other forms of performance art/entertainment.