Dylan Waco

My Picks: Tag Title Match - Cesaro/Kidd will retain. I actually think Matadores have the next best chance which is telling. The real question is whether or not this will be turned into some 12-man tag with involving the seconds. Battle Royal - My early pick was Ryback and I'm sticking with it, even if I Mizdow and Show have strong "cases" using WWE logic to win (actually Mizdow should win using real logic, but I digress). Not only do I not think Itami has any chance, I actually think it would be BAD for him to win. They'd be far better off using the match as a vehicle to get him over and set him up with a feud if they intend on keeping him on the main roster (I don't think they do), than having him win outright. One thing about this match is that if they aren't carefully they could badly telegraph the finish of the main here, because if Show wins I have to assume they are staying the course with Reigns winning clean over Brock as a babyface. Divas Tag - I have to assume Paige/AJ are winning, and wouldn't be shocked to see the person who takes the fall work Nikki on Raw. Ladder Match - Bryan will win. Hopefully the match isn't overrun with stupid comedy. This is the sort of match that could kill the crowd for the entire night if they aren't careful so it needs to be handled smartly. I expect it will get a lot of time, which could be bad for the health of all involved, especially Ziggler, Bryan, Barrett and Harper. Cena v. Rusev - There is absolutely no good reason for Cena to win, but he will. The angle this week on Raw was great, but I almost hate that it happened. In a weird way it takes away from this match as I now have little-to-no hope for Rusev to retain. If Rusev wins clean here he is made for life. If he loses it may be another year before he's in a position to be a main event level guy again. Rollins v. Orton - I actually think you can argue both guys "need" the win from a WWE perspective, but Rollins needs it more. I will go with him, but I think this is the most difficult to predict match on the show. I suspect this will get a lot of time, and that has me worried, because while I think these guys can have a great match, I have no clue how this crowd will react to Orton. This is also another match that might change the odds on the main event, because if Orton wins I think Seth is cashing in either tonight or Monday. Taker v. Wyatt - Never should have been booked and probably wouldn't have been booked if not for the selfishness of HHH. I'm not a Bray fan per se, but he really should win this, and even then a win over Taker at this point means less than it has in years. That said I believe Taker will win, and that win will eventually be used to set up the match he should have had this year (to the extent that he should have worked at all at least). Bray will have had Mania matches with Cena and Taker and gotten nothing out of them at all. Sting v. HHH - Will be Aubrey's favorite match on the show, featuring Flair's best opponent, against one of the great ring generals of all time. More seriously this is a match no one was clamoring to see. I talk to more "casual"/"non-hardcore" fans during Mania week than any time during the year, and it is amazing the number of conversations I've had about this show this week that have started with "why isn't Sting wrestling Taker?" The answer of course is that HHH wanted a high profile match. Had they not moved two matches to the pre-show I would have been slightly more optimistic about the chances of this being good, but now I think it has the potential to be even worse than many of us fear. Sting will win and people will pretend this is evidence of the benevolence of HHH, ignoring that the very existence of the match is evidence of his ego still fucking with shows even in semi-retirement. Sting v. Taker will take place next year off of the back of this. Reigns v. Lensar - Reigns wins via heel turn with the help of the also turning Paul Heyman. If they try and have Reigns go over clean as a whistle on Brock with the build that match has gotten I think it's almost a sure thing that he's a victim of a mob hit. There is stupidity and then there is the presentation of Reigns up to this point which is at a completely different level from stupid. The possibility of The Rock being there, and the looming Rollins cash-in possibility make this an interesting match, and almost make me want to say that Brock will win. But I am giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming the heel turn they need to do is what they will do.

I thought KOTI Night Two was a very good show. The friday Evolve show was widely praised though I didn't see it. Hero v. Thatcher was a great match, but I'm not sure I could argue that someone should buy the whole Mercury Rising show to see it.

I have no problem at all with someone picking Michaels, but I also think it goes without saying that he's been presented with more chances to make an impact than any performer in WrestleMania history excluding MAYBE Hogan. Part of that is a testament to his talents, but another part of that is the fact that Vince just presented him at a level higher than he really was as a draw. I don't even think that's a particularly controversial statement, regardless of how you feel about Shawn as an in ring performer. Still when you look at the matches Michaels got and how he's been treated on that big stage relative to how they treated Cena or Batista - who were much bigger drawing cards at their peak - it is jarring. That said, if we are taking everything into account I have to go with The Undertaker. The knock on him is that a lot of his big matches at Mania weren't good, and in many cases weren't even positioned that well on the cards. Having said that Taker's streak became the most important "title" in modern wrestling history and so central to WrestleMania that it was almost an impediment. There is a reason his losing was such a massive shock. Going further still I think Taker's streak is to a large degree the reason we have the current Mania model (large stadium shows, built around matches involving part time "attractions"). We can argue about whether or not that is a good thing, and correlation isn't causation, but I don't think the changes starting right around the time his streak became so important are a coincidence. I admit that I am perhaps going with Taker because it is closer in time than Hogan, but I also prefer Taker's best efforts at Mania to Hogan's, and even though Hogan was the guy who sold out the Skydome, I don't associate him with the period that saw WrestleMania as an event being cited by business journals for it's "economic impact."

I'm sure this will come up on tonight's post-Mania reaction show, but wins and losses do matter, most especially when you are trying to create new stars. If you want to argue that it doesn't matter whether or not The Rock beats Steve Austin you might have a point (though even there it depends on context to a degree), but it absolute matters whether or not older stars put over new talent, or whether or not new talent get sustained runs of winning or even steven booking. If they didn't matter we wouldn't have given a fuck about The Undertaker's streak, Rusev wouldn't have jumped out of the mid-card pack, et.

According to Twitter CNJ beat Hall clean, which means Cody already gets more credit from me than his dad does

Forgot this had already started. Missing the first match means I probably won't pick it up now, but I look forward to your thoughts shoe.

Strange show in that I loved it despite booking I didn't like, even though a part of me thinks the booking was the right thing (weird I know). I thought every single match was at least passable, and really I'd call all of them good other than maybe the Grappler/Cooter match and that wasn't offensive or anything. I think my match of the night might have been Mack v. Horus on first watch because I was really impressed by how cleanly everything hit without looking super choreographed or feeling rushed. That said the final was really great, and the Thatcher v. Thornstowe and Cobb v. Mack matches were really good in there own right. Luster v. Thornstowe, Tatcher v. Massaro, and Cobb v. Cage were all solid too, and I actually really enjoyed the four-way tag match as the ultimate example of local indie guys being local indie guys in the best way possible (I swear there is a match Empire ran in Chattanooga last year that was a four way tag title match which was damn near identical in terms of style of teams and layout). Several of us had worked ourselves into thinking we might get a Thatcher v. Cobb rematch, but I actually felt like it was increasingly less likely over the course of the night leading into the show, and I had a real fear that Thatcher was going to lose to Thornstowe after concrete plugged the thought into my head. Honestly I can forgive that decision. He's a local guy who APW is promoting and it makes sense to give him a big win. What bothered me more was that they had Cobb lose. Cobb to me is the guy who should have been "made" by this tourney. Also, even though I think Mack was the best worker in the tourney over all, a part of me was disappointed we didn't get Cobb v. Horus as a sort of modern day Angle v. Rey match. In the end I don't know that Mack v. Thornstowe was the right final, but I can't say it was the wrong one either. The match delivered and that is saying something because there were some audible gasps when both Thatcher and Cobb lost (Though Willie was really over throughout the night). I'd like to see WWNLive do regional talent tournies every year around Mania, even though I know it's not likely to happen.

Fair enough. But I reject the notion that a minimalist is someone who could do more but chooses not to. I think in many cases they are people who CAN'T do more, but understand this and work it to their advantage.

A quirk? Mine is just counting down to the show.

You Yanks needs to man the fuck up and move to Europe where pretty much 99% of the live wrestling you can watch doesn't start until after midnight anyway. Seriously, I was thinking about how alien a concept it is for most of us that you could watch WWE PPVs in prime time, let alone hit the west coast for Mania and have it be over before the night has barely even begun. Get yerself sat up until the crack of dawn for this shit, then we'll talk. I meant less money per show than a single WWE live event (i.e. live event for live event, WWNLive would be cheaper). Sorry I botched that. Also staying awake doesn't pose much of a problem for me - I stay up until 3 or 4 watching wrestling 22-25 days out of the month. But for the average person it is a chore

It's an impossible to defend model. First of all they are running seven shows. They really should have offered them as some sort of package deal. If they had done the seven shows with VOD access for 50-70 bucks, I would have bought it. This gets more eyes on things like Kaiju, Shimmer, and KOI, which are really all high risk, niche within a niche, shows. It's also worth noting that smart marketing could have sold that really well by talking up the fact that it is more live wrestling in three days than WWE Network gives you in a month - and for less money. My guess is a package deal like that would have brought in vastly more money and then they could still offer the shows a la carte. Having said that the pricing is insane. Pete mentioned the stupidity of discouraging impulse buys above, and the late VOD access, but what is even worse than that is the fact that if you buy the show same day and want VOD access it is actually five dollars more than just buying it with VOD access the next day (or the day it becomes available). In other words the people who bought the show as an impulse buy, but want VOD access are penalized TWICE for their purchase. This is especially ridiculous this year when you have shows on the West Coast where staying awake for the live stream poses a big problem, and you have a risky venture like KOI where many potential buyers may have been waiting to see the first show and/or see what the second round match ups would be. I ordered the WWNLive Super Show and KOI Night Two, but the more time goes on I regret spending any money on these shows.

A limited worker has limitations and probably doesn't know what they are. As such they are given to excess and/or mediocrity. A minimalist worker has limitations (as all do) but knows how to make those limitations a net strength.

I'm still trying to figure out how Thatcher looks loose. I can get not liking the style, but odd to criticize Thatcher for working light in a World filled with DragonGate, Marufuji, Cena and Tanahaahi strikes, et.

My fear was that round 1 would be weak. I have guarded hopes for night 2

It's getting the point where I now find the Thatcher hate to be really fascinating on a sociological level. People in building were texting me burying Tommy End and the super light nature of Gulak/TJP, while extolling Thatcher. The divide on him is now reaching comically absurd proportions, to the point where I have no clue whether or not I should even seek out this show.

Loved the Starcade show. Gonna have to go back and listen to the rest from beginning to end.

Bill's post is very fair minded. Hopefully when Aubrey vanity google's his name to get back to this thread he'll be impressed by the tone.

Dylan, you did a debate on HHH with Scott and it lasted a long time and it was completely civil. That's what I expect going in, You can appreciate this.... it almost felt like I was talking to Bill O Reilly in the demeanor he presented, Yes, but I like and respect Scott

Stomper I made the same argument about KOI on the newest Wrestling Culture. I think the fixation on dream match tournaments is stupid. I am not averse to them and they serve a purpose, but the idea that all indie shows should be the same "this is awesome!, please don't stop!, 2.99999!!!" style shows annoys me to death and that's even with me probably being more forgiving of that style at this point in my life than any other point in my fandom. I like that KOI an eclectic blend of largely local talent. It makes the shows stand out and makes the show have the feel of something where someone might be "discovered" which is incredibly rare these days. I am hoping we get a Thatcher v. Cobb final, but I do wonder if there may be some deal where Cage can't be booked out of this tourney early given the connection to LU. In any case I'm ordering Night Two despite the idiotic pricing system WWNLive uses, which really disincentives taking a risk on a tournament formatted "second" show. I haven't seen Evolve from last night but it's getting really mixed reviews with some really liking it and others basically hating it. Gargano v. Fox and Gulak v. Thatcher seem to be the most divisive matches which isn't really surprising. I ordered the WWNLive Super show so I'll probably comment on that here when it airs, but I'm really hoping End finally impresses me. I've watched many of his acclaimed matches going back several years and he always comes across as a guy who is being carried, or a guy who combined sloppiness with overly choreographed spots, which is pretty much the worst 1-2 combo an acclaimed worker can throw at me. I thought his hyped match with Greshem from WXW last year was actually a pretty embarrassingly poor performance from him all things considered. I'm really hoping he doesn't drag down guys I have a high opinion on over the weekend.

Agree with Brad. I'm loving these shows

I'll do a show with this guy, but I doubt it lasts 5 mins

I thought they telegraphed that so much that it's going to end up not being the Kingdom

It is not confirmed. I think it is possible that will happen, but not official. I will probably order then WWNLive super show and King of the Indies night two, but I'm really sour on the WWNLive pricing system so who knows.

I've been pimping that match on Twitter all week. Great, great match for what it is. Haven't seen Otani look that good in ages. I was mildly annoyed by the way he sort of no sold the crab hold he sat in at one point, but it fit the theme of the match, and virtually everything else in it was on point. I'd call it must see. I thought it was better than anything on the NJ Cup tour.

It's wonderful in theory. The problem is that in a time period with so much t.v., with a company who has no idea how to maximize his dates or have him be a looming presence when he isn't around, the end result isn't that Brock comes across as a tremendously great, transcendent star, who raises everyone up by virtue of his presence. Instead he comes across as a tremendously great, transcendent star, in a company where everyone else is a pathetic joke