Childs

That makes sense. You're a younger guy. It's a semi-interesting thought exercise to wonder how much backlash there might be against Benoit's work in a world where he didn't kill his family. I suspect some, because one of the styles at which he excelled--NJ juniors--is less en vogue than it was 10 years ago. Liger and Eddy also seem likely to drop this time around. But I don't think it's correct to portray Benoit as some kind of wrestling robot. He got himself over in many contexts, contexts that were not inherently favorable to a guy who looked and worked like him. And he truly was a standard bearer for people who cared about wrestling as a craft. That was part of the reason his ending felt seismic--people had invested a lot emotion in him. I was looking back at the SC results, and he appeared on the most ballots (49) and ranked top 10 for 30 people, more than Misawa or Flair and many more than Hansen, Funk and others perceived as No. 1 candidates for this project. Only Jumbo, Kawada, Kobashi and Liger received more top 10 votes. None of that particularly matters now. It's just another way of saying the guy was considered a rock-solid all-time great, a concept I imagine would feel foreign to somebody who's 20 now.

Wacky in what way? I'm not following.

I think Chikara is really dumb and their one show I went to was the worst show I've ever been to, but I will give them credit for maintaining their own universe. Agreed. They've done an admirable job of building their world and serving their audience. I don't know how their business has been the last few years, but that company certainly feels like one of the notable successes of the 2000s indy boom.

That yearbook thing sounds unspeakably awful. But I enjoy hating Chikara, so thank you for that bit of affirmation .

Hate to hear that man. My thoughts are with you and your family.

That's basically saying you'd trust the opinion of no one who was a hardcore wrestling fan from 1995-2007. Because, as the SC poll demonstrated, the respect for Benoit was broad and deep. That's not to say you shouldn't form your own opinions, but I don't see the need to be glibly dismissive.

The 10/93 match is the least of their 1992-93 matches. The Carny Final in 1993 wasn't terribly interesting either. I felt the 1992 title change was more interesting than both, though admittedly it's not one of their best. Yeah, I forgot about the 10/93 match. Have to agree about that one. God they worked each other a lot those two years.

I found the August match to be the least of all their encounters in '92 and '93--not bad but a little dull, especially given how big a moment it was for Misawa. Not to say you shouldn't watch it but for a long time, people focused too much on that one relative to the matches that built to it.

I think you guys are still on the way to his '96 match with Kobashi. Vs. Kawada 4/6/92, 6/5/92 vs. Misawa 3/4/92 vs. Kobashi 4/16/93 (handheld) Also watch his match with Doc from 6/5/90 if you haven't seen it.

Fujinami could go on Inoki's list as well, depending on how you feel about their '88 broadway. One of my few real regrets about the DVDVR selection process is our decision not to put that match on the set. It would have been interesting to see how people reacted to it. I could see many being bored to tears because they spent a lot of time working holds. But others would probably appreciate the intensity and the old-school build. I've felt both ways about the match. Enjoyed it when I watched it recently, though they lost their way a bit in the last 10 minutes. Anyway, it's worth checking out if you're interested in either guy.

Match did make the set and finished 100th in the voting.

Shows coming soon: Ricky Steamboat Jumbo Tsuruta El Satanico Can I request a Fujinami episode? He's the guy I know is good, but have no idea where to start watching. What I've seen from him has all been good, but I've only watched a few of his matches. I don't know any of his biggest feuds, matches, or anything that really keeps me invested in him as a wrestler. I could do a Fujinami episode. He's not my No. 1 but I'd be happy to lay out his case. I know Dylan is a major Fujinami advocate as well.

the thing is, none of that has anything to do intrinsically with gender. people don't like the WNBA because it's an inferior league, not because it's full of women. Some sports have been developing female athletes for decades and so the quality of the games is on or nearly on par with the men (soccer), but other sports haven't done as good a job of that (basketball). But it's not that women are inherently worse at a given sport, just that the development of the athletes might favor one gender over the other historically. So I can understand looking at wrestling and saying that historically women's wrestling in North America has been inferior to men's wrestling due to lack of talent and development, but this guy has people telling him right now that there are at least a handful of female workers and matches in the US that are absolutely as good as the men if not better. To willfully dismiss them simply on the basis of being women at this point is bullshit. I don't think you're right about the basketball issue. It's a sport that really highlights the physical advantages inherent to men. Specifically, men play above the rim and women do not. Female players are fantastically skilled, but the differences between them and their male counterparts are so obvious to the naked eye that a lot of people can't get past them. And I say that as someone who enjoys covering women's college hoops. The issue isn't nearly as clear in wrestling. But the most athletic male workers are clearly stronger, quicker and springier than the best female workers. So if you particularly value those traits, I could see why the women might suffer in the comparison. There is no female Brock, for example.

Both are important to me. For the top reaches, I want wrestlers who combine the weight of a lot of good performances with the height of some transcendent ones.

Yeah, I actually forgot about their '89 match. Had that 44th on my ballot, below two Inoki-Hansen matches but still well within the excellent range (it finished 40th in the final voting, better than all but one of the Hansen matches). I guess Choshu-Fujinami was such a signature rivalry for the promotion that it overshadowed Choshu-Inoki in my memory. Edit: Inoki-Hasen matches finished 37, 42, 67, 78 and 109 in the voting, so a consensus solid rivalry but not one that produced classics.

Another thing to think about: When you assign peaks, you seem to start with the first year a guy was really good and then give him credit for the entire span until the last year he was really good. This ignores the fact that one great wrestler isn't necessarily as consistent as another. Lots of these guys threw in dead years between their high points. Steamboat and Terry Funk are two that leap out to me on that front but not the only examples by any means. Whereas Flair benefits (for me) from the fact he was extremely consistent within his peak.

He had a good little run in Portland though not anything that would change your image of him. I actually kind of liked him as a broken down old bastard in All Japan. And he was a bit of a prodigy in the British stuff, even if he wasn't in any blowaway matches. Edit: actually, he did have a great match with Marty Jones in England.

I quite liked Harley's '70s matches with Baba and he's a fine pick. Don't recall liking their '80s stuff as much but don't remember it that clearly.

He was Sayama's best New Japan opponent but his peak was short. The move to All Japan hurt him because the light heavies were so de-emphasized there.

Hansen probably wasn't his best opponent but we don't have an equivalent chunk of prime Baba vs. a single opponent. So it's a hard comparison. But yeah, I'd rank Baba-Robinson or Baba-Destroyer way ahead of any single Baba-Hansen. Parv, I recall you being lower than average on the Baba-Hansen series in general.

If I had to pick the guy who wrestled them both and had the best pair of single matches, I'd take Robinson, Brisco and then Hansen (need to rewatch Destroyer-Inoki, which I haven't seen in at least 10 years). But I agree with Elliott that Hansen can claim more substantial rivalries with both, and I'd also rate Hansen easily the best opponent for older Baba. Also agree with him that Fujiwara was a great opponent for Inoki. Dick Murdoch and Masa Saito might belong on the Inoki list as well. He and Choshu never did anything great together.

Yeah, divisive on this board and divisive in the larger community of wrestling fandom are very different things. Michaels was the first name I thought of, but if we're talking the wider world of fans, he's an undisputed GOAT short lister.

My favorite NWO main event was the six man from the following May with Flair, Piper and Kevin Greene against the Outsiders. Second would be the original match in which Hogan turned.