Childs

He wasn't the guy on top, and the NJ resurgence is what, a three-year phenomenon? It's not that Nakamura would necessarily be a poor choice in 10 years. It's that we've had insufficient time to gain perspective on NJ's relative boom period or Nak's role in it. And I say all that as someone who believes he's the best in the world on his good nights.

I'm happy Colon got in; he had long felt like an absurd and unjust omission. Koloff too felt like a triumph of actual research over vague impressions. On the other hand, Brock and Nak were terrible choices. I love Brock as a performer but you'd have to twist yourself into pretzels to argue his second run has been good for WWE business, much less historically good. Dave calls him arguably the biggest wrestling star in the world. First off, I see little reason to put him ahead of Cena. Second, if that is the case, it's more an indictment of the era than a gold star for Brock. Nak is a great wrestler but he's primarily a work candidate and his resume as a top worker is maybe four years deep. I don't see how he's a much better candidate than Angle was, even though I like him a lot more. I also see zero, and I mean zero, argument for him over Daniel Bryan. Both Nak and Brock highlight, for the umpteenth time, the absurdity of the age and experience bars.

I also think Bill would readily acknowledge his writing went downhill in recent years, when he was spread thinner with running the web site and doing TV. And yeah, he was spotty even before that. I'd be surprised if we see him return to a heavy writing schedule. I wrote a profile of him back in '05, and even then, he was talking about ending his column. He reminds me a little of Kornheiser, who always admitted he quit doing ambitious writing because he grew weary of the difficulty.

Perhaps they were simply stating that Berbick had fought and lost to Tyson?

I wouldn't necessarily read anything into that. Grantland has only been dead five days. I think ESPN will make a strong push to keep Lowe, and honestly, it's probably still the best platform for him. I've heard Keri, by contrast, is actively seeking a new gig.

John, would you instinctively place Takada in the top tier of Japanese workers from his era? To your mind, what were his greatest strengths? Just curious because I haven't seen you write a lot about him in recent years.

Don't really think there is one to be honest. Outside of The Dissolve I don't think there's been a website devoted to any aspect of pop culture that I've read that I found to be worth checking out on a regular basis. With this quote, you seem to suggest nothing is good enough for you. That's such an extreme stance that it renders your criticism of Grantland meaningless.

Among Phillips' big flight-of-fancy features, I think I preferred the Iditarod one to the sumo. As for Zach, I'm guessing he's one of the guys ESPN will continue using on its existing platforms? I don't see why they wouldn't as long as he's under contract.

I'm more positive on the site than you overall, but I agree about the eulogies whitewashing the flawed and unremarkable aspects of it. As you say, that's what eulogies are wont to do.

I'm sorry but that just sounds ridiculous, as if everything is beneath you. If you can't find any muffins that suit you, maybe it's not the stand that needs to be put out to pasture.

Does it ever bother you guys that the trios structure can feel so pre-ordained that the struggle over the primera and segunda feels minimized or even non-existent? I found that was something I accepted over time but that hung me up in my early attempts to grasp the rhythm of lucha. I felt like no one was trying to win the match until the tercera. Of course, we could criticize many (even most?) wrestlers in many styles for paying scant attention to the early parts of matches.

I'm not a huge Homicide fan, but I do think the ROH crowd bought him as a top guy with a badass aura. Think about the reaction to him as the company savior in the CZW feud. You can't fake that.

I agree with all that. I just get the sense that for ESPN, the project was principally about appeasing Simmons. That's a volatile base on which to build. And it became obvious, once he departed, that their hearts just weren't in it. So when I say unsustainable, I'm not really talking about economics. Even with looming concerns about rights fees, ESPN has more money than God. They can "sustain" whatever the hell they want to sustain.

Agreed. It was probably never a long-term sustainable enterprise, but I always appreciated that Simmons used his juice to create something legitimately interesting.

Yeah, it's been a total shit show since ESPN broke up with Simmons.

That 12/6/14 tag was excellent with Akiyama in particular kicking major ass. I love the way he's aged into a lumpier, more violent gatekeeper. The small-time atmosphere did hurt it a little though. They worked an epic style and the crowd wasn't there to meet them. Not the fault of the workers, just a little sad.

This is Dick Murdoch redux in terms of the quality of the argument. But Dave probably hasn't watched Memphis TV from the '80s since the '80s. So honestly, who gives a shit what he thinks about Dundee's work? We know better. He's broadly correct about how important Lawler was, however. Is our love of Dundee a more modern view? Was he not well-regarded in the 80's. When I watch 80's Memphis he's an easy Top 50 all-time pick, I just assumed Dave would be with me. My impression is that few people outside the Memphis viewing area would have considered Dundee a top worker in the '80s. I don't know what those reading the Observer thought at the time. But Dundee wasn't played up in the mags and wasn't someone who meant anything to me as a fan of NWA/WWF/UWF. The Lawler matches were always pimped of course, but the DVDVR set did his reputation a lot of good. He finished 136 in the Smarkschoice poll; I'll be surprised if he doesn't crack the top 100 in GWE.

This is Dick Murdoch redux in terms of the quality of the argument. But Dave probably hasn't watched Memphis TV from the '80s since the '80s. So honestly, who gives a shit what he thinks about Dundee's work? We know better. He's broadly correct about how important Lawler was, however.

I agree with that though I never found him as compelling as a heel. He might have been the best U.S. worker of 1991.

Kris is so fair-minded that he actually used a personal pick on a Brody match.

Again, no one is creating the talking point in 2015. It was there from the moment the Mid-South results dropped.

That's a semantic debate though. Loss argued that she made a bold choice about her style around 1991-92 and became a more distinctive/important wrestler for it. The discussion has proceeded from that base. I don't think anyone is arguing she completely reinvented wrestling.

Actually, I think that's where it started. People bitched about how boring the Flair-Terry Taylor matches were in the threads, but then they all finished top 30 in the voting.

I'm not staking a position on this issue because I haven't thought about it with any care, but there was a feeling among the DVDVR committees that Flair matches skewed high in the final rankings because of Flair's fame/familiarity. Do with that what you will, but it's not a new talking point.

The Styles match you're referring to as a classic, is that the ROH one from '05 or the recent one?