tomk

I think one can make a claim that being a territory based in marketing/media capital of New York helped WWF take their "product"national in the 80s. But being in a major media market doesn't guarantee attendance success. The argument that people make when trying to diminish the value of attendance numbers in a place like Memphis or North Carolina is that the folks in TN and NC didn't have alot of things competing for their entertainment (mostly the argument here is lack of major sports teams). NY has multiple sports teams, and an active nightlife scene. Being able to draw in a city where there are lots of entertainment choices isn't a given. The free advertising that came from knowing the tape distribution network is true. But I don't buy that they were the best financed company. Someone want to ask Barber how much financial backing was behind XPW? All of these feds were paid for by porn. 3PW was financed by Jasmine St Claire. PWG was financed by guys who did film work in the pron industry. XPW probably had the best money and resources financed by porn kingpin. How much did the bondage stuff on RF's website subsidize the wrestling tapes? That they needed a ticket scalper to come in and help suggests that they weren't on the strongest financial footing.

So I'm watching a bunch of Mid-South for the Best of 80s deal. And they're hypeing the Roberts match with Ali in opponents corner. I remember the story of Roberts supposedly refusing to go down for Ali because "He's here just one time and I need to continue to draw next month"or some such logic. While watching all this I think it's important to note that Jake is son of one of your top matchmaker/backstage guys. I somehow doubt that Nord could get away with refusing to go down for Ali in a program designed for the payoff of Ali knocking out heel.

Yeah so I was trying to find a website that did all the goofy marketing talking points on future of entertainment distribution etc. and best I can come up with thus far is a music one. http://newmusicstrategies.com/2007/03/16/t...t-music-online/ PWG is based out of socal (Meltzer's home base) and has put in nowhere near the work that Gabe has put in to get himself close to him. I don't think Gabe is a strategic marketing genius and think he's probably just lucked into the right thing at the right time. That said there are alot of indy promotions which are funded by DVD sales ( promotions set up knowing that they draw more income from DVD/video sales than they do from attendance) Gabe comes accross a lot savvyer than those other promotions.

Huh? So sending out a free review copy of successful shows that would obviously appeal to a particular reviewers taste is some sort of con? Gabe sending Meltzer unsuccessful shows with matches that wouldn't appeal to Dave's taste would make Gabe an idiot. Apparently Andy Sedaris was a genius conman for never inviting Pauline Kael to his premiers?

I don't know about their own. Keith was notorious for stealing other peoples stuff. Maybe completely misunderstanding it and misusing but it wasn't his own. He's also a guy who was known to go back and edit old pieces to reflect more modern conventional wisdom.

Obsessed with Wrestling has your pretty detailed recpas of the later part of Austins career which makes it easier to put together a historical timeline and divide up the WWE part of career. http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/profi...teve-austin.php

I'm unclear as to what you mean by post-retirement. You mention the 96-97 run. 97 is OWen Hart piledriver goes wrong. Are you defining everything after that as a "post-retirement"? It seems like worth discussing Austin pre-and post that period but lumping everything after 97 as post retirement seems odd. Post-1999 surgery? Again multiple runs here. 2000 Steve Austin was feuding with Angle and Benoit (and despite his own surgery) really responsible for turning rolling Germans into a count along Hase giant swing spot. I guess Angle should be blamed for not understanding that it's a spot you work opposite Austin (lower ranked wrestler challengeing A1 guy-and not v everyone) but still. Rightly or wrongly, 2001 Heel Steve Austin is I think the highest we ended up ranking him on the DVDVR 500. He really seemed reenergized especially after HHH goes down having a fun main event heel run here, smartly laid out matches. He decides to do "eat a suplex on the ramp" as a signature Flair goes to top rope only to be powerslammed type heel spot. Him walking out in 2002 over the shittyness of NWO=retirement? The second time he walks out in 2002 over shittyness of NWO and being put in an unhyped Lesnar match=retirement?

Holy Shit going to Wikkipedia to find Savage tag partners I find greatest holder of tag belt ever. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NWA_Canadian_...uver_version%29 Tiger Jeet Singh and Dennis Stamp!??!?

Maybe something about Beauregarde http://www.zenorecords.com/beauregarde/claw.htm Also with recent passing some thoughts on Sandy Barr's wrestling style (which from the Al Tomko fed stuff I've watched was a real carny almost British style like Mando). Curious Savage's thoughts on that style and how folks worked around it. I think Savage was pushed in teams with both teamed with Don Leo Jonathon and Stan Stasiak. Got to be alot you can ask him about way one should promote tall guys, stuff about maintaining own credibility while teaming with tall guys, etc.

Complete tangent but was there ever an explanation in Torch or Observer for why vain Vince refused to work shirtless in his last program?

For all his supposed backstage "smartness" HHH isn't Hogan. If Hogan saw 2.5 ratings he wouldn't return. He'd claim he was running for president. Not sure if HHH buys his own hype enough to think that he is actual ratings savior. Does he? My assumption is that HBK and Undertaker are smart enough to not want to do their in ring returns during a ratings slide. They may need to take some more time off.

Since Mania was supposed to be Cena v HHH I assume that sets up good guess as to how long the DX babyface run was supposed to be. And both me and Booker are making the same assumptions you make in this paragraph. Another reason to think that Dan Wahlers says lots of stupid stuff but the burial comment wasn't an example of it.

Global Wrestling from 89=also Boris Malenko run Florida outlaw?

Wahlers is dumb as box of rocks, and there is a bunch of embarrasing stuff in that column. I'm not sure how he defines burial but pointing out that not much difference between feuding with HHH and being burried by him seems pretty accurate. I doubt he actually understands what that means, but it's not something to criticize. Does anyone actually believe that HHH put either of those guys over in those programs? NAsh lost ot Mysterio too. One of the things that's neat about Cena is despite him winning his programs, his opponents leave them more over then they were when they entered the program. Wins don't equal burial of opponent. Losses don't equal putting opponent over. It's the work and the booking around wins and losses. Bullet Points: 1)The idea that HHH stopped building the show around himself after the Mania loss to Cena is ridiculous. 2)Reason Edge/Orton weren't credible heels to face Cena at last Mania=DX. HHH needs heel fodder but didn't think top babyface star should have credible heel fodder. 3)When Edge was walking around stoked that he was going to be going to Smackdown, supposedly HHH was one ogf guys behind having him job to Michaels on way out. Not wanting top Smackdown heel to be credible top heel=the credibility of faces who will be loosing to top Smackdown heel will also be hurt. 4) WON has been pretty explixit that RAW is show built around HHH, regardless of how much money Cena makes...and that Booker has mixed emotions over moving to RAW because everyone knows the score.

This is way off focus at this point and don't want to drag this that far away. But: I wasn't suggesting a Columbine, guy who constantly gets picked on but finaly snaps angle. That seems like bullshit angle to approach. I think in looking at Benoit paranoid guy worried about loosing his job, its important to remember that his experiences in wrestling biz would encourage paranoia. But still not Columbine. I was not suggesting that Graham or Nash contributed to Benoit going crazy. But rather they're guys who have to be thinking, "Wow that guy was a crazy psycho, thank God I wasn't there." Nash interview is amusing for lots of reasons. I think Friedlander has a poor VQ Eric Embry v Dean or Eddy match where one of the participants is injured.

Either Benoit or Malenko. Malenko makes sense as there was some sort of Malenko family v Graham family heat from back in Florida that remember reading about for first time when this all went down. Point was that as result of Florida family heat, Graham had rep for fucking with the "Vanilla Midgets". I think Benoit led the effort to try to get Graham fired after incident. I may be having some Dr Astin prescribed memory lapses here, but that's the way I remember it.

You got to think Nash and Mike Graham are sitting at home thanking God that the guy they enjoyed fucking with didn't snap earlier.

Yeah but supposedly there was a point where Jarrett started charging jobbers for TV time which I always thought was one of greatest cons ever. Better than a wrestling school con cause you dindn't even need to put together the infrastructure of a school. I should point out that my favorite wrestling school con game was when KC James was going to work Corino in James' fed. James said Corino would run a wrestling seminar where students would pay James to submit video tapes which Corino would handle deliver to Hashimoto. I don't remember for sure if James actually even bothered with advertising a seminar so much as just said if you pay me to give Corino the tapes, I will. Fucking brilliant and really between that and his IWA Puerto Rican racist sotherner with black manservant Karlitos, get the sense that James understands wrestling better than majority of the WWE locker room. other fun wrestling school hustle: http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/index.p...c=26733&hl=

Not sure exactly how we’re defining con here as entire point of wrestling is that it’s a con. And some of this seems like more delusion than actual con but whatever. Does this even make Jerry Jarret’s top ten cons? Top five cons? I always loved the story of the point where Jarrett got workers to pay him for opportunity to get TV exposure as jobbers. Didn’t pay the actual talent for doing TV + got paid by the jobbers= amazing wrestling con. Also I think he purchased World Class for less money then World Class was contractually guaranteed for I think TV advertisements. After he made his profit, he closed shop. Which again is pretty awesome. When TNA first started up, Keller kept repeating his talking point of how Jarrettt is one of the few promoters who actually understands how to make a profit in wrestling. The toa folks mocked this by pointing to the collapse of USWA, and World Class. At time I pointed out that the point everyone was missing is that Jerry Jarrett knows how to make a profit in the wrestling biz, he may not know how to make a promotion make a profit….but he personally will walk away in the black. And really that’s what makes him a REAL wrestling promoter and not a money mark promoter. But don’t think TNA is anywhere near his top schemes. I’m completely unsold on this being the con that you think it was. Original plan was supposedly for Joe v Sasaki and Joe v Tenryu, when Joe was no longer available you still go through with show. Once logistics and groundwork are laid out, probably worse move to back out then it is to go forward with lesser show. ROH (for better or worse) is completely built around your long tail theory where future of retail is built around "selling less of more". ROH was built this way before every music/entertainment markting seminar was built around talking point that "future of retail is having lots of niche products for sale, instead of one or two really succefull across the board products" and myspace stuff. They have kind of cornered their niche market in US, it makes sense to try to grab onto the Japanese niche fans. My impression is that the 6/17 show drew a big gate. Are their any numbers on DVD sales from those shows? Getting 1000 Japanese fans hooked on buying your DVDs, means more than GregH flying to Japan. Ok this interests me a lot. Because I didn’t realize Vince actually believed this? Does he? It makes sense to call out Ted Turner as rival as it elevates Vince’s stature to be at war with Turner. “Turner is out to get me” makes for a nice rallying the troops talking point for Vince’s fans and workers to get behind. While rallying them to “I’m being beaten by Verne’s old errand boy” kind of does nothing. I mean there is a reason Shane Douglas and Tazz didn’t do shoots calling out Mike Rapada. “Ted Turner is out to get me” is a good rhetorical device but I always assumed that Vince knew it was nothing but rhetoric… this is the first I’ve heard of it being an actual Vince delusion. I want to hear more.

I should know better than to compliment Lance Storm. Apparently you can be drug free and still an idiot. http://www.stormwrestling.com/072007.html Lance Storm on Marc Mero: Yes it was Mero's steroid use that pushed other wrestlers to put the needle to their ass while the promotion is only guily of not stopping the problem or looking the other way.

I don't know. I think this is a Captain Save a Ho situation, where everyone in wrestling knows that they're whores, and everyone outside of wrestling feels that wrestlers deserve about as much social status as whores. No one will push for changes in the way stuff is done in future if they drop dead. They may have to kill their wives and kids on the way out for something to change. I maybe too cycical here but... So I was plagarized by Ketih in the past. It was always weird seeing what talking points he chooses to grab. It never really bothered me unless he completely misused or misinterpreted my jokes/commentary. That said if he's really writting a book on this, someone should forward this stuff to him as I'd rather he plagarized you than some of the other current writtings on the web.

Not watched much recent ROH, and haven't watched TNA in ages. How is comeback Jeff Jarrett? James Storm done anything else besides the Texas Death Match? No specific reccomendations as I haven't watched enough FIP and really not seen much in the way of high end FIP. But point is I think your blaming Danielson for the audience. Danielson's full of himself heel schtick is nowhere near as "meta" as Sheeley's or Aries', its just the ROH audience that decides to treat it as meta schtick. I'd also point out that the Edison crowd for Joe v Danielson genuinely disliked Danielson for his heeldom. I mean NE audiences stink (I'm trying to remember who was in the tag match I saw in Philly where the row of people infront of me was incensed becuase the heel put a face in submission, " FUCK THESE GUYS SUCK.There is no reason for their ever to be rest holds in a tag match...the other guy should break it up. LEARN TOWRESTLE!!".."--- blameing a guy who is trying to work past the limitations of that shitty audience for their shitty reactions is wrong. He was shorter than TAKA,Dick Togo and CIMA in a thair match together. SHORTER THAN TAKA!!!! So not Japanese junior short, but lucharesu Hamada rival short. Melina and the Miz use his signature spots. I like Sydal alot. And if he can get paid more in the WWE than he can get paid in the indies, more power to him. But if signed to WWE, don't see him doing much of anything there.

You need to watch FIP where you have a far less smarky audience as the heel stuff is less LOL and more actually pissing off children, women and mentally handicapped.

Those people are fucking idiots. Umm...who is bigger idiot Bill Apter or the forensic pathologist who says "some of the best and soundest of people like Ernest Hemingway" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNY2LFVBLhc but really if people are arguing either that he didn't do it or that he didn't take steroids...those people really aren't worth arguing with. there are better uses ofyour time.

The letting wrestlers blog and get policy wrong thing is interesting to me. I'm really curious as to how the decision to let wrestlers talk came about. As clearly that is a change in policy. At beginning you have Victoria blogging that she's worried about being punished for saying anything but wanted to post suicide hotline numbers. Now you have Ken Kennedy doing long pieces. The Larry King show clearly was a change as WWE realized that if you let your own talent talk to media you can help shape message (andmake demands as to who can and cannot be on the same stage with them). We are deep in the controling PR section of this story and the change from early media freeze, to the blogging Cena/Finlay on TV portion of the PR caampaign is a huge change in strategy. Kind of curious as to how it came about. Curious to what degree the wrestlers were coached in talking points and to what degree wrestlers are brainwashed enough by the biz that they've internalized the talking points and don't need to be coached. I assume I'll have to wait 20 years for an imbittered Davari to write a tell all book or something. If Nancy and Daniel were killed by a black immigrant, would you be calling for more coverage? Yeah really thumbs up for Lance Storm here.