tomk

HHH is already in the Observer HOF and so my guess is that really there won't be a ton of the type of discussion that was built around Backlund. Also my guess is the numbers will make it hard for your toa type to push his value. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?show...p;#entry5421733 In all of that I think people will loose sight of the fact that HHH is pretty clearly a strong cage match draw. Then again Rusher was a strong cage draw who stuck around long past his prime and I haven't read any real discussion of his legacy at either toa or classics. Some criticism of Meltzer's obit but no real legacy discussion.

Wait, you're saying if Orton was suicidal, then he shouldn't be suspended for any reason? It's not the company's responsibility to police the mental health of their employees, since that's pretty impossible to do from an objective standpoint. No what I was saying was that if Orton had a history of suicidal behavior than it's not surprising that WWE at this point in time would want to keep him under watch... It doesn't matter wether that makes for good mental health policy or good company morale policy or anything else. The WWE doesn't want another suicide on their watch.

Has Meltzer mentioned this? I mean I remember him talking about a worker on suicide watch within the last year. At the time everyone assumed it was Angle. With the recent events I think most people assumed it was Benoit.. But really if it was Randy then Meltzer recent stuff raking WWE over the coals for the bad pr they will get as a result of not suspending Orton seems either dumb or like he was playing dumb. The flip response I wrote at dvdvdvr:

Muchnick article has been ammended.

Yeah this isn't the most insane result from one of these internet polls.

What the fuck? Former contracted workers? Does that include guys who were in developmental?

Really good article on concussions in high school football: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/15/sports/f...amp;oref=slogin

I realize this is "prowrestlingonly" board but it may be worth starting a steroids in other sports intel dump thread (maybe in the lessons of 2006 sub board). What's going on in other sports creates some of the context for how the drugs in wrestling investigation will go down and be covered. But meanwhile posting this here. Supposedly MLB is interested in blood testing for HGH http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?i...e=ESPNHeadlines I don't buy it actually hapening. As well if a weak union like the Football players union scoffs at it, I imagine the baseball players union will too. As an aside it should be said for the most part most of the drugs in sports investigations have had both strong racial and anti-union overtones. Wrestling doesn't have a union and is a fantasy world where whites win. Its one of the interesting ways in which the Congress looking at drugs in wrestling story will both run and be covered very differently from the storys about drugs in any other "sport". So while I don't buy it ever happening, I imagine if MLB does start doing blood testing for HGH, it will probably become a cheaper thing to do.

1. From the observer, I got the impression that this was an angle that Austin wanted to be involved with. As a big Austin angle I imagine it would affect the buyrate. 2. This is the WWE not NOAH. Flair has been a Family Gundan member for a while now. Problem is WWF isn't NOAH and there isn't clear stylistic split between comedy work and main event style. To work "comedy undercarder gets serious" angle really requires that there be a difference. Alot of main event WWE style is built around signature spots in similar ways to NOAH comedy matches ( I remember that I only started appreciating the construction and work in old man comedy matches after I started watching WWF main event wrestling). I loved the work of Brisco/Patterson during the corporate stooge run. But really the only difference stylistically between what they were doing and what anyone else was doing was that no one sold for them. The difference isn't stylistic its rather a difference in selling. Brisco/Patterson fly around for serious workers. Serious worker has opponents bump around for him. HBK is a comedy worker that people sell for. Ken Kennedy isn't anywhere near the talent of Kishin Kawabata. For long winded guy who was a traditional cage draw, HHH isn't as stiff as Rusher and his comedy mic work doesn't get the same volume of laughs. HHHH is far far more athtletic than NOAH era Rusher. Not sure in the WWE how you do the "old man steps it up for final run" when stylistically not much difference between old match lay out and serious main event match lay out. You can do the takes more punishment to put him away type deal. I liked Flair's silla in the Undertaker mania match so he could add that dive, and I liked his garbage match run but really doesn't feel like the right time to be having him eating barbed wire every night. 3.It's the WWE. When they did the recent brand switch, they traded Flair and Torrie Wilson to Smackdown as a pair so that Torrie Wilson could do the mic work for him. There are ways to do a nice final run angle for Flair but I have no reason to believe that WWE are capable of pulling it off at all.

Was "lost in the moment" the line the WWE used for Kat taking off her top too. Or did they just use the old "overenthusiastic performer" line.

I don't know how to do "grabbing". But still available in google cache.

I really loved Momota's last big run. I imagine a Emilio Charles/ric Flair tag run and possible split in EMLL could be pretty spectacular. That said WWE isn't Noah or EMLL.

Um are people actually being trolled into defending the credibility of Meltzer's numbers in determining how you should vote in Meltzer's Wrestling Observer annual awards? Cause that is legit impressive trolling. This is a thread about the Won readers poll annual awards. You'd think someone who has zero respect for Meltzer wouldn't care about his awards.

Really I don't buy the WCW luchadors as being guys heavily influenced by Tiger Mask. Rey? Juve? Psychosis? Parka? Dandy? Calo? Damien? Cyclope? the Villanos? Maybe if you count Mr JL as a luchador. How kayfabe'd was WCW magazine?

Go check the links. HHH won the majority of the matches against Rock and won the blow-off. No one thought Rock (top face at time) came out of that feud looking like a winner/looking stronger than when he entered program. Obessed with wrestling exists. You can figure out exact won-loss ratios. Of course how one wins/looses is also important.

Wait!!!!! Hector traded tapes for drugs? I haven't traded tapes in a long time and have pharmaceutical sources...is the tape for drugs a part of the tape trading scene something unique that Hector worked out or is KHawk supplying Verne with cialis? Hector traded tapes of Eddie matches for drugs? Readily available NJ, ECW,WCW, WWE Eddie matches? Or some sort of tape trader dream Juarez tapes? Fuck.

I don't buy the idea that programs with HHH did a ton to help Austin, Rock, or Undertaker. Should be pointed out that HHH came out stronger in the programs with both Austin and Rock: http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/profiles/t/triple-h.php http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbc...=1;t=075147;p=2 I'm surprised you didn't also list Hogan who HHH also ran a program with. Don't buy it with Cena. Don't buy that they did much to help Benoit. The HHH v Batista program did do a lot to help Batista. Batista would be the one exception. And well the reason Batista program worked is that he really was never programmed to work opposite HHH. The Batista as member of Triple Threat who turns on Shane Douglas format meant that Batista never had to work an inring match against HHH before the mania match. They built matchup for three months without Batista ever being stuck in role of having to work in a match opposite HHH. No tags no nothing. Batista wins every confrontation. Wins mania match. Works no in ring stuff opposite HHH until next PPV (May 1) where Batista also wins cleanly. HHH says he will take his ball and go home and let Batista's title reign fail on own. On the June 20th Raw they run an impromptu HHH/Angle v HBK/Batista tag where HHH pins Batista (Batista triple teamed with HBK making the save leading to impromptu tag). Batista then cleanly wins the Hell in Cell PPV and then Batista gets out of dodge (switches brands). Batista did have really good success working opposite HHH. But that program was different from every other program HHH has been involved with. Depending on where you want to say that feud started Batista worked something between a five and 8 month feud with HHH, where Batista only was stuck in ring opposite HHH 4 times. With the exception of that one Raw tag match Batista outsmarted and out wrestled HHH in every confrontation. The most effective way to have a face get over in a program with HHH is to have the face not spend a lot of inring time in programs opposite HHH= HHH is a shitty heel to be programed against .

I imagine the Torch could cover her appearance fee.

I'm not sure to what degree Cean helped make HHH as face. But HHH clearly took advantage of the Cena backlash to help with his face push. The fans were booing everyone at the beginning of that feud. I was at the RAW where HHH got cheers for saying that Cena wasn't a very good wrestler. On the same night before saying that line, HHH was met with chants of "We want Sid" (foreshadowing?)and "we want Jarrett" and similar chants of "we are indifferent to you". Meltzer wrote about the " We want Jarrett" chants in the Observer. It should also be pointed out that this was same show that was main evented by HBK joining the Kiss My Ass club. (It was a long combined show and I was put in drunk tank for that segment so don't know how it played live). But this was end of February, and they were already teasing a face DX reunion which would take place two months later. At end of February HHH was met with indifference as a heel and was already being teased for a face turn. HHH is always a shitty heel to be programed against (with one exception). And this was especially shitty time to be programed as a face opposite him.

Jesus can they hire a real PR person already. I mean to put out a statement like that is just shameful and digs them into a bigger hole.. What was the story on the RAW where Helmsley hit Benoit in the back of the head with a chair? Memory was Benoit couldn't get up under his own control after. "Your son-in-law preformed a stunt where he hit Benoit in the back of the head with a chair and Benoit took a long time to regain conscioussness. And your spokesperson suggests that you did no medical screening of him afterward". Is the WWE's legal staff looking at stuff before it goes out? The more stuff I read out of the WWE and McDevitt, the more I think that the goverment prosecutors from the early 90s must have been the shittyest lawyers in the world.

Ehh I really hated the Ultimo Guerrero top rope tiger drivers Mistico only to sprain his ankle in the process..leading to Mistico popping up unscathed to hit his finisher. This wasn't as shitty (as didn't have the real almost lazy Samoan match structure where only way they can be hurt is by accidental collision hurting selves) but still.

Not really sure if Batista dying is one of the worst shoes. None of the divas have been outed as roid abusers yet. Somehow I think if diva showed up on Signature list it would have opened up another big can of worms. Supposedly VH1 is doing a reality show built around Chyna's adventures in rehab. I can't imagine Vh-1 not using Waxman hearings in their advertisements..."Chyna got her fame in a biz that encourages drug use...watch her try to regain her life" Possibility of Angle dying is still out there. Somehow, I don't see Batista death as being that big of a shoe. Batista beating his ex-wife or current girlfriend could be a big shoe. People spend so much time talking about impact of regs that the network clearance issue gets forgoten. What killed Pride and WCW was networks being shamed into not airing them.

Haven't watched his comeback match yet. But he looked really SuperAstro-like after Eddie death/beginning of wellness. Doing lots of matches with taped ribs to hide lucha gut. Maan I would so be into that. What else is there? I assume there must be tape dealers with BANG! stuff. Are there creepy Marti Funk pics of Nishimura wearing nothing but a title belt? Has anyone ever found his Global title win v Alex Porteau?

It was a really shitty finish. I mean the thing about Cena's matches by and large is that even in winning he tends to protect opponents finisher. Loosing opponent's finisher more over post match than pre-match. The Orton hits finisher two count kick out Cena hits finisher for pin really felt like shitty formula I expect out of HBK or HHH. I expect better from Cena. The body of the match was really great. There were moments where thought it was fucking with being best Cena match. I absolutely don't get the Keller "no one buys a headl;ock in the post MMA world" since Orton was essentially working a rear naked choke. Orton working whole match as though he was building toward a knock out and not a pin you'd think would appeal to Keller's Kommentators. I always like the Cena fights out of having opponent apply finisher stuff and really liked the both guys attempt to do crazy versions of finisher spot (build to Orton trying for top rope pain killer followed by Cena fighitng to do FU to floor). Match built around both guys thinking they have to go extra mile to put away opponent finishing with a finisher exchange is bad. For 2007 match with great build and flat finish, I think it was more dissapointing finish than Sano v Misawa.

If memory serves, Funaki is HBK's neighboor and helps run his gym in San Antonio. Nova was a head of developmental. Nova invented the drug mule?