FLIK

Yeah, Holly & Kid were their replacements in the tournament so it was supposed to be the Gunns getting it from the start.

No, they knew it was fucked up going in but it was Onita's show, he wanted to go out on top and no one else worth a damn wanted the death slot of having to job to him Much less known but Tenryu did a crap load of death match tags vs Onita over the years, really fun stuff.

He was head guy in charge up until he retired for the first time in 95. After that he sold the company to Shoichi Arai. Go Ito came in around 91 and was an assistent booker during the Onita years and then head booker from 95 post Onita until sometime in 99 I want to say. Victor Quiones was helping book some as well during 96 & 97. The Team No Respect era was 98 & 99 and yeah that was all Go Ito booking. Fuyuki got power later on in 99 and it all went to hell after that. For a longer more detailed account go read BAHU's massive 3 part FMW history piece http://www.fmwwrestling.us/FMWHistory.html

Yeah I remember hearing that. On a similar note, don't remember which but on one of the billion podcast ex WWE writers have done one guy mentioned that it got pitched to bring in Daffney once as well and Vince was perplexed that anyone could find her attractive at all.

Yeah, the Matsunaga's for sure. Pretty much the entirety of Japanese women's wrestling is based off what they created. The recent back issue of the Observer they just put up is the one covering the Big Egg show in 94. I'm only a few paragraphs in but allready it's mentioned that when all was said in done they probably made over 8 million from that 1 show alone. Onita, meh, I love the guy but he was more of a self promoter then a wrestling promoter. He rarely gave a fuck about about doing anything to make anyone else besides himself a star so kinda hard to consider him worthy of even a token mention in a thread like this.

Week 2 Saturday Night 1/11/1992 Austin vs Bagwell in a 10 minute time limit non tv title match was decent enough. Set up for this is a little head scratching. Apparently a few weeks back when Bagwell got jumped it was because the DA offered him a tv title match and he turned it down saying he wasn't ready so now we get this match just to see if he can last the full 10 mins which he does. They're heavily pushing that Bagwell is Sting's protege which I have no memory of but I guess that does explain why 4 years later Schivaone name droped that those 2 were good buddies when Bagwell got taken out during the infamous NWO backstage assault. The Steiners, Vader, Johnny B Badd & Terry Taylor all get squashes which combined didn't last as long as Austin vs Bagwell. Funny in hindsight to see how much Bobby Roode riped off Taylor later on in TNA for a while. I know Taylor gave him one of his old robes and he was doing a similar gimmick but shit, Bobby even stole his hair cut. They show highlights of Vader vs El Gigante from New Japan at the dome whear Vader shoots off his helmet in Gigante's eyes. Kinda want to track down that match now out of curiosity. Mid show we get a Cactus/Abby vs Z-Man/Pillman tag which is really fun. Post match Cactus accidently whacks Abby with that shrunken head cane he used to carry around that leads to them brawling with each other. Sigh, reason #2 i'm gonna have track down 91 WCW as I was also really looking forward to seeing their team and they're allready breaking up. Main event is the Arn, Larry & Rude vs Simmons, Dustin & Steamboat match that's also on the yearbook. Really good tv match, the kind that made this era so great as you could just throw any combination of the Dangerous Alliance out thear vs the top babyfaces and be guaranteed quality which they'd do on a weekly basis. I think this being some of the first wrestling I was ever exsposed to (became a fan in mid - late 91) is why faction warfare has always been my favorite style of wrestling. I vaugely recall someone earlier in this thread or elsewhear on the board bringing up how overused the Bobby Eaton runs in to leg drop a guy as he's going for a pin finish was and it's been 3 shows in a row whear hear in 92 whear they've done it so yeah they loved the heck out of that one. World Wide 1/12/1992 Much better show then last week. Really good Steamboat vs Eaton match to start the show that ends in your usuall DA run in brawl. Big Josh squash was decent enough for a 1 min match. Austin & Madusa cut a pretty good promo, they go all over the place focusing on upcoming matches vs The Steiners, the tag at the Clash and the Steamboat/Rude/Madusa angle but they keep it all tied together well enough. Speaking of Madusa, Missy Hyatt each week is constantly running her down which is allready getting annoying. Had they actually had any altercation yet byt this point? Missy also gets in a line about running off all of Jason Hervey's ex girlfriends which was amusing but makes no sense unless you actually knew they were dating. Main event is Austin vs Hammer for the TV title, don't know what we did to deserve 2 weeks of Hammer main events but this actually wasn't too bad by his standards. They kept things really simple & formulaic and don't go too long so not much of a chance for Hammer to be exsposed. I gotta say, until he actually gets in the ring, Hammer is a pretty cool lookin dude, I can see why he somewhat got over and they were high on him for a bit.

Started WCW 92, some good shit to kick things off. 1/4/92 Saturday Night was great at building the upcoming Clash and every segment had a purpose. Starts out recapping a Dangerous Alliance beat down on Bagwell & Sting from the previous week leading into Rude & Dangerously coming out. Paul threatens to make Sting into the new Magnum TA only his tragedy won't be accidental. Rude then squashes a jobber but that's only an excuse for Steamboat to come out and cut a promo on comentary. Seems I joined things right in the middle of the angle w him & Madusa. He says him & Dustin got Sting's back and if Rude want's to step up he'll be glad to beat his ass...not in those words . Larry Zbysko squashes Larry Santo which is just an excuse for Ross to hype the Larry/Rude vs Sting/Steamboat Clash match. Really refreshing to see anouncers ignoring the action but still keep the focus on the star involved, so many times today they'll ignore a match and talk about random shit or someone elses match making the guys in the ring look like insignificant chumps. Larry Z gives Larry S a brainbuster post match causing him to be taken out on a stretcher and just to be a dick Zybysko tips the stretcher over on his way out. Terry Taylor comes out to kill a jobber, cool superfly spash & gut wrench powerbomb from Taylor neither of which I would have exspected him to bust out. Match is just an excuse to have Taylor quit the York Foundation post match saying he wants to go it alone, smashing York's computer and for some odd reason telling the fans to screw off too. Weird since if they're gonna keep him heel why not stay w the Foundation? God, I was 8 when I first saw this and haven't seen it since until now but I still remember the exact angle that set this up with the computer giving Taylor bad advice and York getting pissy he wouldn't listen. Did not recall the part whear York basically promises to fuck him if he'll stay in the group however, surprisingly went over my young head. As a random aside, i'd forgotten hot hot Terri was even back then, damn. Sad I jumped in right as they're breaking up as I was actually looking forward to revisiting the York Foundation, makes me wanna go track down the 91 footage for that. Anyways, moving on Van Hammer squashes a jobber named Paul Lee which has to be some weird rib on Heyman. Cactus Jack's out for commentary to hype the Falls Count Anywhear match. He runs in for a short brawl post match and they do a rolling DDT spot down the stairs which sounds cooler on paper then it was in execution. Amused that Foley looks nearly identical today as he did back then right down to the sweats, flannel & tennis shoes. Gotta respect that. Mr Hughes squashes two scrubs in a handicap match while Ross hypes up his newly formed team w Vader who's gonna be fighting the Steiners at the Clash. Taped Sting promo vowing to put Rude in a cast of his own. WCW Magazine report w Bischoff airing highlights of the Pillman/Liger LW Title change from what looks like a house show. Main event is the awesome Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson match that's on the 92 yearbook set or atleas the first 20 mins of it. They run out of tv time so you've gotta tune into World Wide to see the rest. 1/5/92 World Wide starts off w a short in studio segment w Tony Schiavone & Missy Hyatt. Scared for a second thinking they were gonna have Missy on the whole show as having heard her do comentary before she's one of the worst in history but thankfully they only have her on for a few mins in between matches while Tony calls things solo. The finish to Arn/Dustin was pretty great w it turning into a big chaotic brawl w Dustin/Steamboat/Windham/Simmons vs Arn/Larry/Austin/Bobby. Rest of the show goes downhill from thear. Cactus vs Arachniman sucks, Bagwell vs a jobber sucks worse. Never thought about this before but was the reason they spent so much freakin time hyping that Bagwell was from Sprayberry Highscool a rib to make fun of him for not going to college? I don't actually know that but come on, he's the only guy in the entire history of wrestling to get his HIGH SCHOOL credentials hyped up, WTF? Maybe they just liked saying Sprayberry? It's here I notice that Tony calling things solo = so not as good as Ross calling things solo. Don't want to be too hard on Schiavone here tho since he was still a pretty great anouncer during this time frame and on this show he had crap material to work with. Main event is Austin/Eaton vs Big Josh/Van Hammer which completes the trifecta of suck because they had the bright idea of having Hammer work 85% of the match. Only good thing that made it somewhat bearable was Madusa spazzing out at ringside and running aorund a million miles an hour.

From what i've heard a lot of ppl say you can blame a lot of the change on Steph getting made head of creative in the early 2000's

Don't have much to add to the current conversation but i'll say that while today's crop of guys are def more on the bland side, I have no problem telling them apart and actually don't think the "clone" talking point is as valid as it was a couple years ago. I can remember 1 guys got braids & one guy doesn't for the team with the girl and 1 guy is big and 1 guy is small for the team with the bike but which one is Hunico beats the fuck out of me I liked the Rumble a lot this year, much better then 2011's show. I only watch a handfull of WWE shows a year now and this is the only 1 that's always a 100% lock for me. Nothing was blow away great but I enjoyed every match on some lvl atlest and thought the Rumble match itself was one of the better one's they've had in a few years. Not a lot of star power but it had a lot of fun/cool/memorable moments and they kept the action moving so it rarely draged which is all I really want out of the match. Guess I just haven't seen the right match but I don't get the love of Dolph Ziggler, he's good but i've never seen him on the lvl that most others seem to. He always comes across too forced to me, like he's trying too hard and just rubs me the wrong way. I thought the cage match was the best thing on the undercard. Besides the idiotic "never had a girlfriend" talking point they're trying to push I didn't find the announcing that bad either. Funkasaurus = best thing possible that could have EVER happened to Brodus Clay's career. He's gonna be able to milk this shit for life Honky Tonk man style if he wants to, so so so much better then being generic big guy monster #47 on a roster full of them.

Yeah I was thinking a lot about that. If it were up to me i'd have him face Bryan for the belt, storm out at the begining of Mania, challenge him to fight him in the opener saying he doesn't want to wait then beat him in like 30 secs w the brogue kick. That shit would have way more impact then having like a 8 - 12 min semi competitive match mid show like they'll probably get otherwise.

I'll clarify -- More Undertaker from 2004-2007 or so. He wasn't wrestling every week, but he did occasionally. Eh, same reason. His knees/hip has been shot since the late 90's/early 00's and there were rumors of retirement going around even back then. Add in a bunch of other injuries he's gathered over the years (broken bones, torn muscles, etc) and him being a big enough star he can get away w taking more time off to heal and you get him not wrestling as much. They protect him yes but only because they know he only has so much time left.

Undertaker's been banged up for years. Him only showing up a handfull of times per year is because he simply can't physically work a full or even semi full time schedule anymore. No way they wouldn't have him on every week otherwise.

What's this all about? Pretty sure I've never heard this story before. Okay Holly was on the road with Dupree and had the rental car in his name. A tornado was about to hit Mobile so Holly had to go home early. He gave Dupree the keys to the rental car. A month later Holly gets a summons to appear in Oregan (where the car was rented). Dupree fucked up the car and got a bunch of tickets. Holly is fined 10,000 dollars and has to fly up two or three more times on his off days. He tries to find out what happened from Dupree who keeps ducking him. Til finally they are in the ring and Holly kicks the shit out of him. Yeah, I'd definitely never heard that story. I mean, I don't know the extent to which Holly tore into him, but if that happened to me I'd absolutely be pissed as well. Yeah, that's a weird one. One the one hand Holly was right to hold a grudge, on the other, Holly didn't confront him face to face, he waited until they were in a match either near the finish or right after it, whear they were supposed to be "working" and then shot on him by waiting until he was laying down on the outside of the ring, couldn't see what was coming and sucker punching the guy right in the face. Gave him a black eye. There's footage out thear somewhear of it tho you can't see the direct blow since it's on the other side of the ring the camera is filming. With all this JBL talk i'm surprised no one's mentioned the Blue Meanie incident at the ECW One Night Stand ppv that was a similar deal.

The very little i've seen of Heenan as an actual wrestler he was actually quite good. Never saw Albano in ring but i've always heard he kinda sucked. I'll use this as an excuse to post a link to Lord Alfred Hayes vs Bobby Heenan from AWA, awesome match that everyone should see if you haaven't allready. For what's billed as a "battle of the managers" they look better then all but the top tier talent around. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKASakc7_zY

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not Well, The Wonder Years did get broadcast on French TV (thanks Wikipedia), but I never watch that kind of stuff so to me the guy is a complete unknown. And browsing through his filmography, I reiterate : whoever he was. I always get a kick out of Missy calling him a midget on interviews. Heh, yeah actually not shocked you don't know him from the Wonder Years but he's been a Bischoff buddy/hanger on for so many years that I figured most wrestling fans atleast would know him from that. They own a production company together and have worked on a bunch of tv shows together both in & out of wrestling. He stuck around WCW for a while back then and actually dated Missy for a little bit. In a really weird random bit of trivia, the LWO idea was apparently something he originally came up with.

Eh, I don't know about that. Guys always switched back & forth so I never got the feeling WCW was incapable of stealing WWF talent. Before Luger they got Hogan & Savage, before that they got Flair back and a bunch of other guys in between. Reminds me of a funny story Meltzer told on one of the radio shows a while back. Apparently Hogan had such a great merch deal and WCW was so stupid that at one point if you did the math between what it cost to make a shirt, what WCW was selling them for and how much they had to pay Hogan that WCW was losing money on every sale.

link?

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not

Not sure if it'd hold up or not but at the time I liked her short run with the Nasty Boys.

On that note, I don't think she's top 10 at all but Missy Hyatt's atleast worth a mention as well. It's weird to think, if they came a few years later guys like Bobby Heenan prob would have been slotted as heel commisioners rather then heel managers. More or less that's what the role has evolved into as far as modern, main stream US wrestling goes.

And booker Really underrated guy in the history of puro with him being assistant booker during the Onita years and head booker until late 98 plus a really good post FMW run putting shows together circa 02/03 until up to a couple years ago.

I'm only really familiar with Albano for his short 90's WWF run which I enjoyed but is hardly enough to go top 10 on. Haven't seen enough of his peak era or enough of Blasse & Wizard to judge them fairly either. Of who I have watched i'd go Heenan, Jimmy Hart, Cornette, Sherri & Paul E as my top 5 with Heenan as #1 and the rest in no particular order. For the rest of my top 10 i'd go with non standard choices and for sure have Go Ito for his work with Team No Respect in FMW and Police for his work as Mayumi Oazaki's second in GAEA/OZ Academy in thear. Great sleazy, weasly, cheating heels. The other 3 spots i'm not so sure about. Not seen quite as much as i'd like of JJ Dillon at his peak but i've seen enough to know he belongs. Little surprised no one's mentioned Sunny & Paul Bearer. Jim Mitchell & Rob Parker i'd atleast consider for spots too. Thinking a little more, can we consider Vince McMahn a manager? I know he wasn't in the traditional sense of the word but he did essentially the same things all other great mangers did and was awesome leading various dudes vs Austin & co over the years

Eh, you're underrating Nakagawa. Of this lineup Fuji is the only guy who sticks out on paper as far as "style clash" goes but he was actually usually a really good guy to have in multi man tags, especially against quality opponents. Has a lot of firey, energetic stuff he can hit in short burst, works well as a "hot tag" guy. It's singles whear he struggled. Nakagawa was always great or well, most of the time atleast (we'll pretend most of the Hayabusa singles matches & the feud vs Onryu never happened). He has some really good matches vs Taka & Funaki later on in 96 that are worth tracking down. They did have one 11/16/96, went 16-17 mins, one of the first puro matches I ever saw actually. Not a MOTYC but it was pretty damn awesome last I remember.

Yeah, this was part of her retirement road, one of the better AJW class of 86 reunion matches they did. Combat vs Kaoru from the next night is worth tracking down as well

Been a couple years since I last watched this but I remember this being a pretty good match in full