JerryvonKramer

A Sir Alex Ferguson shout out on Summerslam = bizarro world.

I still don't really get what it means for Sheamus to beat Orton or vice versa. Every Orton match feels like that.

I had some friends here, who have just left. The sight of Shemus and his Mohawk did not do much to sell them on watching wrestling in 2015. A lot of "I can't believe you watch this shit", oh well.

I'm watching, no issues so far.

Do think this deserves its own discussion and I've been thinking about it all day. Here are some matches I've been thinking about: Jumbo vs Tenryu 89 Ted DiBiase vs Jim Duggan multi gimmick tuxedo match Flair vs Vader 93 Flair vs. Lawler in Memphis. The first two of these matches are five star in my view, which are enhanced by context, but the rating does not reflect that because the matches themselves tell their own story perfectly. Knowing the context makes them "better", but the rating is not affected. Flair vs. Vader might be the match in wrestling history that has most affected me emotionally. I cried first time and then years later cried again. In terms of emotional hit in wrestling it is top for me, yet it's not even in my top twenty Flair matches. Flair vs. Lawler has one of the all-time greatest studio confrontations and greatest build to a single match within a single show I've ever seen, it's a 5-star segment. But the match again wouldn't even be top twenty Flair. So I guess I'm on the side that says the context doesn't feed into the rating. Discuss.

The only thing I care about, once again, is whether Piper can still make his dates, etc. People staying / handing over to someone else always preferrable to the territory closing though in my view.

Oh right, I'll have to remember that next time I see anyone review a random match on YouTube. I think people are confusing the emotional pay off of a storyline with match quality. I cried for Flair vs. Vader, I don't think it's a masterpiece of a match. There is a difference. I didn't really review Sasha vs. Bayley last night, but for what it's worth, it told a really wonderful story. I didn't have a lot of context beyond that hype package and even within the boundaries of the match they established brilliantly that Sasha was a dick heel and a bully, and Bayley was the underdog. I went in rooting for Sasha and even I secretly got turned around because Sasha was that horrible. I loved some of that "you're a loser!" stuff. Don't get me wrong it was a very good match that told a vivid story with a great finish and a satisfying pay off. I dug it a lot. But talk of ****3/4 seems wild to me. I could get ****1/2 maybe, but I think more than that is emotion speaking. But y'know what do I know, I've been to corners of the internet where I saw someone give Arn and Larry vs. Dustin and Steamer ***, and to me that's a nailed on *****3/4. People have different views.

They did a pretty good job of explaining the context in that hype package. The hype packages on the show were very good in general.

Steven, I'd probably take Wrestemania over it, from what I've seen. But you know, I thought Brock vs Roman was a five star match and both Orton vs. Rollins and Cena vs Rusev were better than everything on this show beyond perhaps the women's match. And I was in the camp that found the clusterfuckery of Sting vs. HHH hilarious. But that's one better show I've seen from this year.

Think people are going way way overboard on this match and this show in general. Just my opinion. I understand excitement and enthusiasm for the product, but it seems like people getting carried away a la Meltzer with New Japan. I might rewatch women's match to see if I could justify giving it more than ****. Beyond that, the ladder match was about ***1/2 and the rest of the card 2-3. I don't really get the immense level of praise this show is getting. I watched Wrestlewar 92 last week. That was the sort of show to lose one's shit over, with three straight 4+ matches, and even that has a so so undercard, and I didn't think the undercard here was really anything above what I saw there. Dunno, totally not with those heaping insane praise on this one. And I did enjoy it.

No, they are separate shows with split crews. They run about an hour and a half. Imagine a concession break, cappetta running down up coming cards, etc. Actual in ring time takes up maybe half of that. Are they getting short changed? Maybe. I'm considering changing up the house show schedule next month.

Holy shit with the argument at the top of this show.

Not trying to be an asshole, but this is exactly what I was talking about around the time Will was calling me an idiot.

WWF at Boston Garden August 16th, 1983 The host is Gorilla Monsoon. Monsoon: Hello everyone, this is Gorilla Monsoon from the Boston Garden, it’s a-happening! Jammed packed to the rafters here. We’ve got a great line up for you tonight, FOUR championships defended right here in Boston. We’ve got the Inter … Wait … what the … Bobby Heenan casually walks down the aisle. He stops to look at some fans, disregards them, continues. He walks straight to the commentary booth and sits down next to Monsoon. Monsoon: What is going on here? I’ll get security to … Heenan: Will you knock it off, I’m about as thrilled with this as you are. Monsoon: Well what is this? Heenan: I’m fulfilling a contractual obligation. Monsoon: A contractual what? Heenan: It’s a long story, Monsoon, but when I was negotiating with Mr. Shinma, I pulled a few strings here, pulled a few strings there … Monsoon: And? Heenan: Well, once a month I have to sit in on these Boston Garden shows and talk to an ignoramus like you for two or three hours … Moonson: Will you stop! Get out of here, you have got to be kidding me. Heenan: I’m hating this as much as you. I mean, I’m the one who has to SMELL you. Monsoon: Do you think I’ve forgotten what you and Nick Bockwinkel did to me last month? In this very building? I’m in pain every single day. My leg still hasn’t healed. Now I’m warning you Heenan, you better not try anything or I’ll have you canned. You understand? Heenan: What did you have for dinner? Was it Mexican? I mean do you always smell like this? Monsoon: Oh give me break, I have to put up with this guy? Heenan: And where’s the air conditioning? I can’t work in these conditions. Monsoon: Over to Gary Michael Cappetta fans … Heenan: Gary Michael who? Monsoon: Sheesh … Gary Michael Cappetta introduces the first match. Andre the Giant and SD Jones vs. Arn and Ole Anderson Lars and Gene Anderson were at ringside. Match: Andre the Giant and SD Jones won the match in 7:09 by DQ after outside interference from Lars and Gene. During the match, Gene Anderson gave SD Jones a piledriver outside the ring knocking him out cold in the opening moments. Arn and Ole then worked two vs. one against Andre, who was still able to get the better of them, until Gene and Lars rushed the ring, leaving a four on one situation. After the referee called for the bell, Andre battled on, but was overwhelmed after Ole smashed him in the back with a chair. Andre was then “hung, drawn and quartered” by the Andersons. Eventually, The Animals (George Steele and Luke Graham) came out to chase the Andersons off, but Andre was in significant pain and had to be helped out of the ring. SD Jones is carried out by a stretcher. Quotation(s) from announcers: (Gorilla) “Lars and Gene should not be out here, what business do they have at ringside?” (Heenan) “They have every right to be out here. It’s a family business” (Gorilla) “Look at this, no! Gene Anderson has … NO! SD Jones could be … that sort of thing can end a career Brain!” (Heenan) “This is real smart by The Andersons, now Andre has to face two men alone. Jones, you shoulda looked where you were going dummy” (Gorilla) “Look at this now … they can’t be .. no, Andre … oh …” (Heenan) “Hung, drawn and quartered. I’ve never seen anything like this in all my life.” (Gorilla) “Well they’ve made the Giant mad now, I wouldn’t like to be any one of the Andersons in the morning! Fans, we’re going to keep you updated on the condition of SD Jones, we hope this isn’t a bad one.” Ricky Steamboat © vs. “Macho Man” Randy Savage for the WWF Intercontinental Championship Match: Randy Savage defeated Ricky Steamboat after the referee stopped the match for excessive bleeding at 18:30. The match was worked at a very fast pace. Steamboat dominated to start, but Savage gained control after Steamboat missed a splash from the top rope. He dumped Steamboat outside the ring and repeatedly rammed his head into the post and railings causing him to start bleeding profusely. Back in the ring, things started to get very heated with fierce chops from Steamboat, and manic punches from Savage, who also hit two snap suplexes. The match ended as Steamboat was laying prone and Savage was on the top rope looking to hit an elbow drop. As the referee stopped the match Savage leapt but Steamboat rolled out of the way. Quotation(s) from announcers: (Gorilla) “I say this every time I see him Brain, but Ricky Steamboat might just be the best wrestler I’ve ever seen” (Heenan) “You’re being very insulting to Mr. Bockwinkel. And … well, after what he did to your leg, I would be careful …” (Monsoon) “Are you threatening me weasel?! What did you say? (Heenan) “Uh uh, nothing. I was saying that if Ricky Steamboat was so good why doesn’t he hold the WWF title?” (Gorilla) “Well maybe soon he will” (Heenan) “He looks like he’s got his hands very full with Randy Savage” (Gorilla) “This has been a tremendous match up, and yes, the Macho Man is vicious!” (Heenan) “This is good strategy by Savage, keep Steamboat grounded” (Gorilla) “Both of these men are high flying specialists, Savage is just as deadly coming off the top rope as Steamboat is” (Heenan) “I don’t like Ricky Steamboat” (Gorilla) “How can you not like Ricky Steamboat?” (Heenan) “I heard he’s cheap. He got a cab here tonight and left without paying the driver. He never tips in restaurants. He’s been wearing the same socks for two years” (Gorilla) “Will you stop!” (Heenan) “And he’s always late on his rent” (Gorilla) “He is not!” (Heenan) “Oh yeah, that’s right, he lives with his mom” (Gorilla) “SUPLEX and a beauty! The champion in trouble here, Savage is taking it to him” (Heenan) “Come on Savage! Oh, did I say that out loud …” Jack and Jerry Brisco © vs. Stan Hansen and Bruiser Brody for the WWF Tag Team Championship Match: The Briscos defeated Hansen and Brody by count out after 12:00. The match started in a very heated way with Hansen and Brody ambushing the Briscos from the get go. They isolated Jack and worked his back. Jack was able to tag Jerry in who hit several dropkicks, but was cut off by Brody. However, the legal man was Stan Hansen, who got embroiled in a brawl outside with Jack. Brody hit a running kneedrop on Jerry and went to cover him, but the ref knew he wasn’t the legal man and counted out Hansen instead. Quotation(s) from announcers: (Heenan) “I give this one to Hansen and Brody, just look at the size, power and strength of these two.” (Gorilla) “These two teams have matched up before, and it was close” (Heenan) “Of course, the Briscos aren’t too bright, Monsoon” (Gorilla) “They both went to college” (Heenan) “Yeah, but in Oklahoma! Ha ha ha ha ha ha! (Gorilla) “The comments of Bobby Heenan do not reflect those of the World Wrestling Federation …” (Heenan) “Hey referee!! Count the man dummy! Brody has him pinned!” (Gorilla) “The legal man is Hansen! Fantastic piece of refereeing by Mario Savoldi!” (Heenan) “Mario Ravioli” (Gorilla) “It’s gonna be a long night …” Harley Race © vs. Mil Mascaras for the NWA World Heavyweight Title Match: The match ends in a draw after 11:22 when both men were counted out. During the match, Mascaras generally dominated the action and worked an abdominal stretch on Race for some time. Race eventually gouged Mascaras in the face, and hit a gutwrench suplex before dumping him out of the ring. He went to post Mascaras, but was blocked, ended up getting rammed into the post himself, Mascaras pushed Race with such velocity that he hit his head on the post too, and both men were knocked out outside the ring. Quotation(s) from announcers: (Gorilla) “The NWA champion, Harley Race. A great competitor.” (Heenan) Hey Monsoon, did you know that before Mil Mascaras became a wrestler, he wanted to be a fireman?” (Gorilla) “He did?” (Heenan) “Yeah, he went in for the first day of training but they turned him down cos he couldn’t tell the difference between jose and hose b! Ha ha ha ha ha! (Gorilla) “Will you stop!” (Heenan) “Hose A and Hose B! I crack myself up!” (Gorilla) There is an interval here. When we return, Bobby Heenan has left the commentary booth to resume his managerial duties. Bob Backlund vs. Dick Murdoch Murdoch was accompanied to the ring by Bobby Heenan, Nick Bockwinkel and Blackjack Lanza. Match: Bob Backlund defeated Dick Murdoch by DQ in 15:12 after Murdoch was caught using a pair of brass knucks. During the match, Backlund dominated Murdoch for large portions, working over his arm with his signature “row row” arm wrenches. He also hit his atomic piledriver. Murdoch was wobbly legged and punching at thin air when Heenan jumped up on the apron distracting Backlund who tried to grab him. Heenan ran and Backlund chased, which allowed Bockwinkel time to throw a pair of brass knucks to Murdoch. Heenan ran and hid behind Lanza, who tried to punch Backlund. Backlund blocked it and sent Lanza down instead before getting back in the ring. But Murdoch laid him out with the knucks. As he went for the cover, the referee spotted it and called for the bell. Immediately, Heenan and Bockwinkel hit the ring and started stomping and kicking Backlund. Murdoch hit multiple knee drops and Backlund was convulsing with pain. Soon, Ricky Steamboat, Jack and Jerry Brisco and Junkyard Dog all ran in. Bockwinkel, Heenan and Murdoch all tried to run away, but as they were doing so, JYD grabbed Heenan by the hair. Bockwinkel and Murdoch had already bailed, and Heenan was surrounded. The crowd erupted as JYD headbutted Heenan, the impact seemed to hit so hard that Heenan appeared to bounce from the mat to over the top rope and out to the apron. He was knocked out cold. As Steamboat and the Briscos tried to revive Backlund, JYD waved his chain and the crowd cheered crazily. Quotation(s) from announcer: “Look at that no good weasel and his cronies coming out here. This is ridiculous, it’s basically four people against one. What is the Champion Nick Bockwinkel doing out here? What is Lanza doing here?” “Backlund! The former champion really taking it to Murdoch!” “Oh this is … oh no, how many times can we see this?” “Backlund should not be chasing after that weasel, the man he needs to beat is in the ring.” “Brass knucks! No!!” “Mario Salvoldi with another brilliant call. He spotted those knucks” “What is this now? Someone call security, Backlund is defenceless!” “The Junkyard Dog!!! All the way from New Orleans! You may have read about this guy, fans, he’s here in Boston!” “JYD now! He’s got Heenan! And YES!! YES!! Getting everything he deserves and more” After the match has died down Cappetta gets into the ring ready to announce the final match, but JYD beckons him over. He’s a little out of breath. JYD: Bob Backlun’, Bob Backlun’, I jus’ wanna say in front o’ all these fans brotha, that the DAWG has got ya back! I Is comin’ all the way up in here, from down south, you understan’ me brotha?! We know what is happenin’ up in here, you been seein’ it, and readin’ it, an’ … Nick Bockwinkel! Bobby Heenan! You cats better watch yo’ self. You cats better watch out cos … whoa whoa whao, A dawg been chompin’ on his bone … and your days you better be counting them daddy, cos they is numbered! The crowd goes crazy. Heenan is still out cold at ring side. It is not clear where Bockwinkel is. Gary Michael Cappetta: And his opponent, he is the WWF Heavyweight Champion. From Beverley Hills, California, weighing 241lbs … NICKKK BOCKWINKELLL. Bockwinkel is nowhere to be seen. The crowd get restless and start jeering. Where is Bockwinkel? Cappetta looks at Savoldi who shrugs. JYD is in the middle of the ring jumping up and down ready for the match. Cappetta leaves the ring. Bockwinkel still isn’t there. The ref calls for the bell … Nick Bockwinkel © vs. Junkyard Dog for the WWF Heavyweight Championship Match: JYD stands around in the middle of the ring, shouting “Come on out Bockwinkel! Come on out!” The ref is bemused and starts counting Bockwinkel out. JYD stops him several times. After this goes on for some minutes, eventually the ref begins to count in earnest, “ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT” on the stroke of the eighth count, Bockwinkel slithers from UNDERNEATH the ring and quietly rolls into the ring behind JYD who is trying to remonstrate to the referee. The crowd are going wild, but JYD doesn’t turn around and Bockwinkel gets him in an inside cradle using a hand full of tights for additional leverage. And the ref counts, 1, 2, 3. The winner of the match in 4:34, Nick Bockwinkel. Quotation(s) from announcers: “Nick Bockwinkel is a coward and a disgrace. He’s a disgrace to that title and to this sport.” “Where is he? Too scared to show his face again after what just happened? Is he embarrassed? Can’t he fact the Dog alone without that weasel lying there to help him?!” “Oh no! No! No! No! Not like this … Unbelievable!” “Someone has to stop this. I am not sure if I can take much more of these antics week after week!”

WWF @ Pittsburgh, PA - Civic Arena - 8/11/83 Arn and Ole Anderson defeated Dominic Denucci and Jack Carson when Arn pinned Carson in 12:13 after a spinebuster. Baron Mikel Scicluna defeated Tony Russo in 4:30 with a concealed foreign object. SD Jones drew with Mr. Fuji in 20:00, the time limit expired. Ricky Steamboat, Jack and Jerry Brisco defeated Nick Bockwinkel, Blackjack Lanza and Bobby Heenan in 17:40 after Steamboat pinned Heenan. This was the first time Heenan had legally entered the ring. WWF @ Warren, OH - WD Packard Music Hall - 8/12/5/83 Chief Thundercloud defeated The Goon in 2:34 with a tomahawk chop. The Destroyer defeated Dean Ho in 6:50 when Ho submitted to a hammerlock. Superstar Billy Graham defeated Victor Riveria in 13:00 with a bearhug. Bob Backlund and Mil Mascaras defeated Abdullah the Butcher and The Sheik by DQ in 18:00 after Abdullah threw several chairs into the ring. After the match, all four men brawled in the arena for at least ten minutes.

I agree. It should have gone on last. Not a troll. The big emotion of the Bayley win would have been the perfect thing to fade down on,

People very touchy. I wasn't trolling, just saying that they copped out.

Doesn't matter, I'm arguing this precisely because I've argued with people on this very board who don't accept Flair vs. Savage or Megamaniacs vs Money Inc, or many other matches that there billed as co-main events but happened to go on first. On this very board. What was the main event of Summerslam 92? So it's only a real main event when it's convenient for your argument? I mean all those matches were clearly billed as co-main events in build, on the front of video tapes, on posters, etc. Will, as an example, tends to use the last match as the main event when he's doing his Summerslam retrospectives. Fans have a habit of only seeing the last match as the true main event. Come on now. They should have put the women on last if they had complete faith in it.

If they wanted to prove a point, they should have put it on last, not had Steph cut a promo beforehand saying "this is the real event". That was a pussy cop out move. Put it on last and then it's definitely "the" main event and not "a" main event. Sorry fan boys.

This is feeling pretty main eventy guys, just saying.

Owens sitting in the corner waiting is one of the coolest things in wrestling history.

You hear that goodhelmet? Did you?

LOL Like all those other ladder matches that had to go on last in history. Time for the main event ... For the NXT title.

Good match. Sasha's character work very good, business with the hand some great work, finish exciting and a crazy bump. Big moment that was made to feel big. Great stuff. ****

I'll believe this is the main event if the last match is a curfew draw tag match.