JerryvonKramer

Watched the 81 WWF run yet Chad?

Can't wait.

Had a feeling you'd bring that match up and I think -- ironically given that I don't think matwork is Flair's strong suit either -- the matwork in that match is probably right up there with the very best that either guy has ever done.

For Marty and anyone else who wants to see it, here's the Bob vs. Greg rematch from 11/23/81 aka the peak of Bob Backlund's entire life aka one of the best matches we've seen on Titans period:

Well can you recall a time I've said I love Jumbo on the mat for 40 minutes? I don't think matwork is Jumbo's strongest suit.

If you read the reviews, Jumbo doesn't spend 40 mins on the mat vs. Robinson, they are more like bomb throwing contests or "long" sprints.

I haven't really seen enough of it to really have a developed opinion but the few matches I did watch (all from 1990) bored me to tears. PeteF3 actually does a good job of summing up what I don't like about the style and he's a guy who is also into 70s mat classics and stuff from World of Sport. Remember what I said about liking my wrestling big? The UWF stuff has a lot of parity. Like every match is Bob Backlund vs Bob Backlund and the fuckers don't want to give anything each other. In something like Inoki vs Robinson, they still sold big for each other even if there is palpable struggle at all times. There are still discernable heat sequences and you don't get this stop, start reset thing PeteF is describing here. Robinson will run the ropes, throw big bombs, jaw at his opponent and do several other things that generally make me feel like I'm watching pro wrestling, whereas I recall the UWF stuff from 1990 not resembling the pro wrestling I recognise and love. I may get round to watching more shoot style, it's not a big priority, but I might. But generally I don't think liking 70s stuff necessarily means you'd dig shoot style (or vice versa). This is actually the second time someone has asked me this, believe the first was re: Dory, who obviously also "belongs" to this 70s mat style. And he's another guy PeteF is high on, funny enough. Inoki is generally a bit too shoot-y for my tastes though and I find him ridiculously boring a lot of the time. I went into the Robinson match as I go into all Inoki matches expecting to hate it. I really really hated Inoki's Backlund matches. See here for his 69 match vs. Dory: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/27872-learning-to-love-dory/?p=5629119 Dull for long stretches. I think it is actually a knock on Dory that he couldn't get something more compelling out Inoki, but I've seen people give that match much higher than I have. vs. Jack Brisco, see here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/19164-jack-brisco/?p=5637405 I saw Inoki have a ****1/2 star match against Jack, and it was DESPITE Inoki, that rating is testament to Brisco's selling abilities. If you read my comments there, you'll see I acknowledge that I'm not big on shoot-yness. I also have a Stan Hansen match vs. Inoki on a high rating DESPITE Inoki. I've also reviewed an Inoki match vs. Destroyer (yet to be published in Microscope) that like the Dory match I gave *** to and bored me to tears for stretches. This one vs. Robinson was the best I've seen him because he wasn't really sitting in the holds, and the Indian deathlocks look like they could legit break someone's ankle. But to me it is a huge feather in Robinson's cap that he could make an Inoki match so interesting.

Billy Robinson vs. Giant Baba (7/24/76) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtbAHz2kUt4 Billy Robinson vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (3/5/77) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPx3NQzIuWM Billy Robinson vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (3/23/77) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbAYo7hvvVk Billy Robinson vs. Antonio Inoki (11/12/75)

updated

It's fucking ridiculous how blow-away great this guy is. I stand by all of those ratings in earnest. Will rank him as high as I feasibly can.

Billy Robinson vs. Giant Baba (7/24/76) I went in expecting this to be a chess match on the mat, but this was a fucking fight, full of stiff slug fests and big throws. Robinson even does a plancha at one point. And Baba does a suplex bounced off the ropes for leverage. Kind of a 70s equivalent of a spot fest in a way, but super heated, with intense work by both guys and good psychology as you'd expect. Robinson is just phenomenal in this match. Everything he does from the stiff forearm smashes and uppercuts to his swank backbreakers is great. Great example of Baba as a top worker too, but this is mostly the Robinson show. This is like a 25 minute sprint over 2/3 falls. Terrific match and contender for match of the decade. ***** Billy Robinson vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (3/5/77) Another phenomenal match and A+ Robinson performance. He was a real bomb master and I have a hankering to see him in action against Harley Race just to watch the suplexes fly. But this is super intense and heated too. Robinson brings a sort of pressure cooker atmosphere to his matches, everything has great intensity. He brings so many different big moves here, tiger suplex, butterfly suplex, several backbreaker variations, belly to back suplex. For his part, the young Jumbo more than holds his own and shows he can work a big match as he does practically any time he's in there with a big name, be it Robinson, either of the Funks, Race, Brisco or whoever. Jumbo has a GWE case from 70s work alone. He shows a lot of determination and fire here and brings his own big bombs to bear, throwing Germans and gut wrenches. Absolutely everything means something here, but like the Baba match this is more like a sprint / spot fest worked over 25 minutes. Robinson must have been like the most exciting guy ever in the mid-70s. One of the most remarkable thing about these Robinson matches is the sheer pace they cut. Robinson honestly looks like one of the best wrestlers ever ever here. Post-match we get a bit of afters before the trophy ceremony. Just awesome stuff. I think I liked this as much as the Baba match. ***** Billy Robinson vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (3/23/77) This is in CWF for some reason but with Japanese commentary and is the return bout. You can see Eddie Graham's Marlon Brando face in the front row. Dory Funk Jr is also at ringside, presumably to face the winner. Same ferocious pace as the other matches and same level of intensity. I feel like I'm watching the Flair / Steamboat trilogy for the first time here, this stuff is off the charts. Here Robinson destroys Jumbo in the first fall with multiple neck breaker variations before Jumbo makes a big comeback with a huge belly to back suplex. The submission holds from both guys are real snug here, but they keep things moving generally. Some of the best headlock take overs you'll ever see in this match. The loud bangs and crashes on the mat are really satisfying too. Awesome finish to second fall when Robinson answers a piledriver with a massive backbreaker. Then another and into a Boston crab. World class wrestling in any era! Abdullah the Butcher runs in and gets himself involved during the third fall, while the ref is out, but it does nothing to detract from the third straight up fucking classic I've watched tonight. Could I possibly give three matches I a row the full five? Fuck it, I can and I will. This is some of the best wrestling you'll ever see. ***** Billy Robinson vs. Antonio Inoki (11/12/75) Okay, let's see what Robinson can drag out of that boring bastard Inoki. This goes over an hour and, unsurprisingly given that big chin is involved, it's a much more mat-based affair than the Baba or Jumbo matches. But that same pressure cooker atmosphere that Robinson seems to bring about in all his matches. Tons of struggle in this one and some really vicious submission stuff by Inoki, including some sick Indian death locks. There are also some really cool counters and things like that. If a guy is in a headlock, he'll usually have his fist right in the other guy's face struggling. Just as with the Brisco vs. Inoki match I can see fans of matwork really loving this. But they do build to bigger bombs later on in the match, especially in the third fall. Both guys really get to show off their knowlege of holds, counter holds and throws here, everything from head scissors to surf boards to abdominal stretches to Boston crabs and head locks, it really is a wrestling clinic and maybe the best I've ever seen Inoki. So awesome when Robinson busts out two uppercuts and a butterfly suplex. Moments of explosion, that's how I'd describe a lot of this match. Robinson really seems to rile Inoki up and brings out the best in him. Robinson has a certain cockiness about him, it's a recognisably British character to me. This is an epic match that tells a superb story with world class technical wrestling that builds and builds to a really exciting finish. It's surely in the pantheon of stone cold classic hour long matches. Is it possible, a fourth match in a row? Surely not? Could it be possible? With Inoki in the match and everything? You better believe it. ***** Well wow.

WWF at Boston Garden Jul 19th, 1983 Gorilla Monsoon opens the show. The phrases “jam-packed to the rafters” and “this is a happening” are both uttered. He’s still disgusted at the actions of Nick Bockwinkel and Bobby Heenan. Gary Michael Cappetta with the introductions. Johnny Powers vs. Baron Mikel Scicluna Match: Powers beats Scicluna with the Powerlock in 7:32. During the match Scicluna hid a foreign object down his tights. Quotation(s) from announcer: “Johnny Powers here, he’s some kind of athlete”. Superstar Billy Graham vs. Mr. Fuji Match: Graham wins after a standing powerslam in 9:40. During the match Mr. Fuji tried to throw salt in Graham’s eyes but missed. Quotation(s) from announcer: “Superstar Graham, he’s spending more of his time in the TV studio than in the wrestling ring these days, but he’s still got it.” Jack Brisco vs. Arn Anderson Match: Brisco defeats Anderson after Anderson passed out while in the figure-four leglock after 24:50. During the match the referee sent Gene Anderson back to the locker room and barred Ole and Lars from ringside for the duration of the match. Brisco comes in a house of fire, still angry and upset about the injury to his brother. Anderson works a good heat sequence and hits his spinebuster after Gene tripped Brisco for the transition. Brisco made a strong comeback however and didn’t release the figure-four for several minutes after the match. Quotation(s) from announcer: “Jack Brisco has fire in his eyes and revenge in his belly.” “After what the Andersons did to his brother, you can tell that Jack Brisco is out to hurt Arn Anderson here today” “Good! That no good Gene Anderson shouldn’t be out here anyway! He doesn’t have a manager’s license” “Anger and frustration getting the better of the Oklahoman here, he’s going to do Anderson a serious injury if he doesn’t release that hold.” The Destroyer vs. SD Jones Match: The Destroyer wins after headbutting Jones with a “loaded” mask in 6:00. The Destroyer plays it cheap here and more heelish than their last encounter. Quotation(s) from announcer: “Another impressive victory for ‘The Intelligent Sensational Destroyer’. It looks like SD Jones still hasn’t recovered from that dirty trick that was played on him in his title match against Nick Bockwinkel.” Ricky Steamboat © vs. Larry Zbyszko for the WWF Intercontinental Championship Match: The match ended in a time limit draw at 30:00. Steamboat came out guns blazing this time with armdrags and controlling for the first ten minutes with armwork. Larry was not able to stall like he did in the first encounter. He managed to gain control after an eye gouge and showed off a variety of offensive moves such as karate kicks, a piledriver and a swinging neckbreaker. He focused mostly on Steamboat’s neck and the heat sequence goes a good fifteen minutes until Larry gets on a chinlock that signals Steamer’s comeback. The momentum swings back and we hit a series of nearfalls until the time expires. Quotation(s) from announcer: “You’ve got to give it to Larry Zbyszko, he may be a terrible human being, but he sure can wrestle” “Ricky Steamboat one of the most incredible specimins I’ve ever seen in a wrestling ring”. “You’re not going to beat a man of Zbyszko’s calibre without hooking the leg!” “What a great match! This is one of the greatest matches I’ve ever seen” Bob Backlund vs. Blackjack Lanza Match: Backlund defeated Lanza after an atomic piledriver in 9:12. During the match Bobby Heenan stood on the apron and Backlund punched him off to a loud ovation from the crowd. Quotation(s) from announcer: “This snake Bobby Heenan, he won’t let Backlund have a rematch for his WWF title, so Backlund has to face one of his cronies instead” “Lanza, a former WWF tagteam champion, but these days he’s mostly a bodyguard to that weasel Bobby Heenan” “Backlund hasn’t lost a step and in my view is still the rightful WWF champion” Nick Bockwinkel © vs. Dominic Denucci for the WWF Heavyweight Championship Before the match Bobby Heenan steps into the ring and demands Cappetta to hand him the microphone. Heenan: Introducing first, if he can make it to the ring after eating all that spaghetti and pizza … from the country of Italy … allow me to introduce to you the greaseball … he’s surely seen better days …. Ladies and gentlemen, one of the true goofballs in all of wrestling (mock Italian accent) he-a hasn’t-a won-a a match-a since 1963 …. Dominic Denucci!!! Denucci comes down the aisle and stands there looking a mixture of aggravated and humiliated. He has the look of a man who knows he’s been setup. Heenan: Hey Dominic! Dominic, here dummy! How do Italian girls shave their legs? They lie down outside and have someone mow them. Dominic looks really pissed off now. Heenan: If Tarzan and Jane were Italian, what would Cheetah be? The least hairy of the three! Dominic charges towards the ring, a ball of anger. Just as he does so Nick Bockwinkel seemingly out of nowhere ambushes him from behind with a chopblock to the knee. He has a pair of brass knucks on and lays Denucci out. Heenan makes his way from the ring and comes in with cheap stomps. Denucci is basically KO’d. Bockwinkel gets into the ring now. He demands that the referee, for this bout Mario Salvoldi, rings the bell. The ref doesn’t seem to know what to do, but Bockwinkel is insistent and the bell rings. Denucci is still out cold. Bockwinkel looks at the ref again, “count him!” “I said … COUNT”. Salvodi reluctantly does so … Match: Bockwinkel defeated Dominic Denucci by countout in 0:10. After the match Bob Backlund ran to the ring but Bockwinkel and Heenan immediately ran away and all Backlund could do was check on the unconscious Denucci. Quotation(s) from announcer: “Oh can someone put a stop to this!” “I’m just sickened to the back teeth. Is there anything that these two … CRIMINALS won’t stoop to?”

Pete fell asleep right on his keyboard with his head on the space bar. Ha ha ha ha.

I've just watched the bunkhouse brawl, it's real fun and features among other things DiBiase decking people with a kendo stick.

Absolutely zero chance.

Christ, how young was Kevin von Erich there?!

Oh fuck this. I don't even care about modern WWE. Going back to watching NWA classics and 70s Japan stuff.

Bret Hart. Kawada. Shawn Michaels. Kobashi. Climbing up the ladder should mean something. So Owens gets his first feud with a lower midcarder not straight in with Cena. The whole thinking of the company is ass backwards because it's become too divorced from the wrestling basics and ABCs. Ratings be damned, it's not like the current formula has worked out brilliantly. And wrestling fans tuned in to see wrestling shows with jtts guys on them for years and years, why is the 2015 fan so different. There's value in seeing a star showcase all their offense against a job guy. There's value in seeing what he can do against a marginally bigger threat. Then when he faces the big star, it's a real what if.

Right now it means nothing for Randy Orton to win a match or to see him get pinned. Have Randy Orton win fifty matches in a row and lose only at the next Mania and it might mean something. He can't go over Sheamus every week. There needs to be lower rung guys to put him over. There needs to be more Baron Sciclunas and Victor Riveras. Who is the modern equivalent of a Bobby Eaton in late 90s WCW? Need a much stronger sense of hierarchy in general.

So many matches are completely unmemorable because of the parity booking. Nothing means anything because guys are pinned so much. Forget about Cena for a minute. Shamus vs Orton. Who won the match? Who cares? Who ate the pin? Who cares. Clean finishes for the sake of clean finishes hurts the value of everyone on the entire roster. Not having jobbers hurts the value of everyone on the roster. And the jtts. They have NXT now. Nxt guys could make good jtts.

Star vs star matches can't mean anything if no one is a star. Even back in Monday Night War days there was a great sense of hierarchy on both shows. Hogan was still Hogan, the undercard was the undercard. Hogan didn't trade wins with Chris Jericho. You might criticise him for that, but it still maintained the aura of Hogan being a whole cut above a Jericho. Cena trades wins with Kevin Owens, let alone a Jericho.

1. Bring in more guys from new Japan, ROH, indies, whatever. 2. Bring back jobbers. 3. No wrestling company can operate without stars.

I mean what happened to protecting guys? What happened to a double co draw brawl to the back leading to a rematch? What happened to a champ getting a DQ win to hold on to his belt leading to a cage match or stip blow off? The old ways were the old ways for a reason.

Incidentally, I count run-in leading to a pin as clean finish of sorts. A pin is a pin. A cheap finish to me is a count out or DQ.

Will needs to see Taker as being like Crusher or Dick the Bruiser in AWA in 1983 or something like that. People are going to stooge to get those old fucks over. Brock was just doing his job there.