JerryvonKramer

What interests me most if who they'll have working for them. I take it Mark Haskins will be a given right?

Ant and Dec on interviews. Simon Cowell as GM.

Think this bit of this post is interesting and strikes me as being true. I'm going to sidestep Christian for a moment to ask why a guy like Tully Blanchard was never considered to be someone who could be world champ, or why even he was never considered main event level. He was over, had charisma, could work, ticks basically every box. Yet I've never heard anyone argue that he should have been a main event guy or world champ. We can think about people like Roddy Piper too. Again, not heard anyone ever push for him either. With Christian, I'd ask those who categorically say no based on things like look what a guy like Chris Jericho has over him.

My immediate thought too. Just so random.

This gave me a genuine lol in real life.

I honestly find that having a wife alone is hard enough, let alone kids. Like Dylan, I don't sleep. Hardly ever. When it's about 10pm for your guys and you still see me posting, it's 5am here. Recently my wife has been trying to get me to take sleeping pills. I like to think Bob Dylan was talking about watching wrestling at 3am when he wrote these words:

I have a few questions regarding Funk: 1. It seems like he'd more than usually move through an area tagging with Dory. Sometimes he'd have singles matches, sometimes Dory would. I seem to remember someone saying that their usual setup would be for Dory to take on a guy first, then Terry the next night. So ... does Dory himself have to be taken into consideration too? 2. Were the Funks always working heel? Seems to me that they were the sort of team who might work de facto face on a given night or just kinda occupy a tweener-y "these are two former champs, living legends who'll take on all-comers" sort of deal. One thing is for sure though: they crop up absolutely everywhere. 3. How much time did The Funks spend in the States and how much in Japan in the 76-81 period? I think answers to those questions would help make the view of Funk a bit clearer. I see Dory and Terry from this time more as international Billy Robinson type guys than territorial staples. They'd come in, work a few dates, and then move on. How many sustained runs did they really have anywhere outside of All Japan?

Judging by the massive gap between the Badd Company vs. Patera / Rheingans match and the Fultons vs. Destruction Crew, I think it's safe to conclude that 1989 AWA was hardly awash with great quality. It's amazing how much things dropped off even from 1987 when most people would think the AWA was totally done. The crowds from that time into 88 seem to halve and then halve and halve again in 89. Can't really believe there is a whole year more of this promotion after this. In a way, one of the surprising things about this is just how late on it is before the dwindling crowds and general sense of being in the doldrums starts to take hold of the in-ring product. Even if the booking is consistently questionable it seems like things didn't start going truly to shit in terms of bottoming out to the point of no return until mid-88. Maybe it's just that the quality of the 87 stuff is so high that it masks or distracts from the crowd shrinkages, but it seems to me that there was still a shred of hope that things might have been salvaged then. Still, 80s AWA was much, much better than I ever thought it would be and I'm glad I saw it through. Disc 11 rankings then: A- Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/13/88) B+ Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (Strap Match) (12/13/88) B- Ken Patera & Brad Rheingans vs. Badd Company (3/25/89) C Paul Diamond vs. Pat Tanaka (11/18/89) C- Bobby & Jackie Fulton vs. Destruction Crew (11/18/89) D+ Larry Zbyszko vs. Nikita Koloff (11/18/89) D Wahoo McDaniel & Tom Zenk vs. Manny Fernandez & Larry Zbyszko (2/7/89)

Here's a question: does anyone think Valentine was a bigger heel than Harley Race in this period? Is there really an argument to support that? Billy Graham has got to be at or near the top too. I'm just wondering what Valentine has got going for him in terms of Dylan's criteria. The Funks were still big stars in this period too and both of them seemed to work every promotion at some time or other. Without looking into anything further, my guess at a top four would be something like: Bock Graham Race Terry Funk In any order. Is there any reason to be putting either Valentine or Patera ahead of these four?

The name I want to put forward in this thread is Ivan Koloff, and it's not just because I've been looking at him a bit recently: From what I've seen, he was always near the top of the card in his runs in different territories. Constant challenger to Backlund, worked Tommy Rich and Orndorff in Georgia. Had a big tag run in 1977 in Florida with Pat Patterson and then Mr. Saito during which he was also Florida champ for a time. Tagged with Ole in Georgia through 1978-9. Was also champ for a time for Dick the Brusier's WWA promotion. There's all sorts of random matches like this in his resume: November 27, 1980 - Mid-South Superdome Extravaganza: Dusty Rhodes defeated Ivan Koloff. By 81 he's starting his Crockett run. I don't know if Koloff was a super-duper draw or anything, but he seems like a guy who was in constant demand and who could work in any part of the country, often against the top faces of the day in that given region. Reckon Ivan is probably sold a bit short in terms of how big a star he was and in his ability to get over just about anywhere.

Hansen was on a lot of those 1980 Georgia cards I was looking at when tracing The Iron Sheik's career the other day, seemingly working babyface though.

This should be WWF, I'll change it now. I originally had the list done in general regions of the country rather than by promotion and then decided to split up by promotion. Missed this. I was totally unsure on The Crusher and Dick the Bruiser and when exactly they were working face. Or on precise timelines for any of the people on the list. I was mainly throwing up these names to start something going in the hope that people with specialist knowledge in each of the areas could correct and refine. I'm pretty vague on this era and did the list in 10 mins or so. For example, I know Pak Song was a fairly major heel in Florida, but I don't really know how major. I know Sputnik Monroe was a big deal in Memphis, but I don't know if he was still around in any meaningful way in 76-81. Thought the list might generate something from the folk who know better.

I seem to have missed a lot of Canadian guys who had decent/big/ hot runs in that period ... Guys I didn't list above who are given entries in Greg Oliver and Steven Johnson's The Heels and who were active 76-81 Baron von Rashcke Toru Tanaka Mr. Fuji Mad Dog Vachon Killer Karl Kox The Spoiler Killer Tim Brooks John Tolos (till 80) Black Angus Campbell (apparently had a big run in Central States circa 77) Eric the Red Jos Leduc The Mongolian Stomper Masked Superstar Pat Patterson The Missouri Mauler The Assassin (Jody Hamilton) Dick Murdoch Dr D David Schults Ron Wright

Last match for the set ... Post-87 Flattop Thin Nikita Koloff (aka my least favourite wrestler ever ever ever) vs. Larry Zybysko In my mind, Nikita with hair is a different man. You know how some people think the real Paul McCartney was killed in 1967? I think the real Nikita Koloff was killed some time in 1987 and the man since has been an imposter. Actually, it's a little complicated because the "real" Nikita came back to WCW circa 1992. The only analogy I can make is to the Mad Hatter in the Batman comics -- there's the real Mad Hatter and fake "imposter" Mad Hatter. A lot of the boring, lifeless matwork I associate with the Nikita of this period to start. Zybysko does his best to make this more interesting. Man, I wish I could overcome my sheer unbridled hatred for this version of Nikita. Just as shitty as he is in NWA. Decent suplex mind. Even looking beyond my prejudice, this match has had no real flow or story so far. Zybysko has been a little hit or miss on this set, I REALLY liked his Bock matches and he was hot in general around the time he was having those. But he's not looked that good in 89. Man, that's it? D+ This could have been a good bit better if it had gone 5-6 minutes longer and if Zybysko had any sort of offense at all.

Paul Diamond vs. Pat Tanaka I really really like Tanaka. I don't know why, I just think the guy is cool as hell. Always have. His black velvet karate gear here is bitchin'. Things start off with a long headlock. This is being worked in an oddly casual manager for former tagteam partners taking each other on. Things pick up a bit with a superkick from Tanaka and some great crossbodies. Diamond starts a comeback and Tanaka begs off. Big clothesline almost takes Tanaka's head off. This hasn't been bad at all. Sato is here now. C

Bobby & Jackie Fulton vs. Destruction Crew Decent tag match with two contrasting styles. I thought the Beverley Brothers were a complete joke as a kid and they were one of those teams who surprised me when I found out they could be kickass later in life. I've liked a lot of the Bobby Fulton I've seen and he was fine here. From a career perspective, to go from NWA in 1989 to working in the death throes of the AWA is quite a fall -- had he not got involved in promoting I do wonder what Fulton's 90s career would have been like. There was surely a place on the WCW cards for him. Anyway, HOLY SHIT, I was not expecting to see Jerry Blackwell again. He looks OLD here. Lower middle. C- I think Eric Bischoff looked pretty sexy in 1989, could have been in Spandau Ballet. The green screen is absolutely hilarious.

I've probably vastly overrated that Mando match, but every once in a while I'll see some schtick I've never seen before that really tickles me and that's what happened here. The criticisms of Mando seeming more heelish than babyface are completely valid. On the all Japan set I was REALLY entertained by Sheik vs. Steamboat which mostly everyone else hated. Mando vs. Tanaka is my Sheik/Steamboat for this set.

Here are just some names to play with. National / Multi-territory stars Andre (mostly face) Billy Graham Dusty Rhodes Bruiser Brody Harley Race Stan Hansen Terry Funk Dory Funk Jr Wahoo McDaniel Adbullah the Butcher Don Leo Jonathan Jimmy Snuka Ivan Koloff The Sensational Destroyer Mid Atlantic Ric Flair Greg Valentine Blackjack Mulligan Paul Jones Georgia Roddy Piper Don Muraco Ole Anderson Gene Anderson The Iron Sheik (1980) Florida [Don Muraco] Pak Song Curtis Iaukea Ox Baker Angelo Mosca California promotions Ray Stevens Peter Maivia The Great Mephisto (Frank Cain) [buddy Rose] PNW Buddy Rose Bull Ramos Jesse Ventura AWA Nick Bockwinkel Bobby Heenan Ken Patera Da Crusher Dick the Bruiser Crusher Blackwell Detroit Sheik Eddie Creatchman WWF Lou Albano Larry Zybysko [Ken Patera] Grand Wizard Freddie Blassie Johnny Valiant George Steele Mid-South Ernie Ladd Texas Gino Hernandez Fritz von Erich (mostly face by this stage?) Memphis Jerry Lawler Austin Idol Sputnik Monroe (still around in 76-7??)

Ken "Stuck in the 70s" Patera and Brad Rheingans vs. Badd Company It's so weird that Patera looks more dated and 70s now than he did in the early 80s. That means he actively chose to look like that. Strange choice. Tanaka is one of the very few wrestlers who genuinely looks cool, as in outside in the real world, he would have looked cool in 1989. Not in those tights mind. Brad has a better look here than he did in the early-mid 80s. A guy who looks better with a bit more weight on him. Patera is not moving too bad here in fairness. Quickly into a bearhug though. Backbreaker. I can't get over what Patera looks like here, he seems sort of womanly. Like he should be tagging with The Glamour Girls. Brad takes over on Tanaka. Diamond hits a great clothesline. They've worked this match old-school AWA style with a long shine sequence. Nice inside cradle by Brad. Feel like things lose their way a bit after the hot tag to Patera and the second FIP sequence is a bit messy in general. This is probably the best Brad Rheingans performance on the set. Decentish B- Can't really believe they made these guys tag champs here. Post-match Patera claims that this is the greatest combination in tag history.

Wahoo and Mr. Charisma Tom Zenk vs. Zybysko and Manny Seems to take a long time to start this one. Things pick up when Manny starts working Wahoo over. I didn't think this was very good. Larry Z seemed to do absolutely nothing. D

Kerry vs. Lawler This was a bloodbath. I'm not really a fan of the claw as a move in general, whether applied to the head or to the stomach. The level of blood is insane in this. Lawler does a lot of sneaky Memphis chain stuff. Some terrific punches here from him. Seeing him lay into Kerry's extremely bloody face is a great visual. Kerry may have more blood on his face here than I've ever seen in wrestling. This match was really good. It felt bigtime, Lawler worked a smart match, Kerry was perfectly servicable considering it was almost 1989 too. A-

Time to finish up. Wahoo vs. Manny, strap match. Very brutal brawl with all the stiffness you'd expect. I'd describe this as your archetypal "Will match" and it was not a surprise to hear him marking for it. I thought it was a little one-gear myself but this is probably the best match from these two. B+, but note to self, higher than other one which is B+ on disc 10.

Don't know if Eric R reads here, but I'd be very surprised if he didn't still like the Flair-Steamboat matches. Clash 6 is worked like a fucking sprint and they don't let up. It's a 40+ minute match that is worked and feels like a 10 minute match. I don't think you even have to be a big Flair or Steamboat fan to dig those matches. Steamboat in Clash 6 works like he's on crack or something, takes it to next level, some real pyschoness. The spot with the 16+ elbow drops always gets me. You don't see that shit usually. Anyway, I've hit my groove tonight and will finish the AWA set and do 150 rankings TONIGHT.

This period of AWA was fun and kinda sad all rolled into one. A lot of randomness and stuff that is enjoyable in a vacuum. Some stuff was very disappointing for me, not really getting any of the love for the Lawler stuff on here. Disc 10 rankings A- Adrian Adonis & Bob Orton Jr. vs. Midnight Rockers (January 1988) B+ Mando Guerrero vs. Pat Tanaka (6/12/88) Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (10/15/88) B Jerry Lawler & Greg Gagne vs. Riki Choshu & Mr. Saito (5/14/88) Original Midnight Express vs. Midnight Rockers (12/27/87) Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (7/16/88) Manny Fernandez, Teijho Khan & Soldat Ustinov vs. Robert Gibson & The Top Guns (6/12/88) B- Curt Hennig vs. Greg Gagne (6/12/88) Wahoo McDaniel vs. Curt Hennig (12/27/87) C+ Sgt. Slaughter vs. Col. DeBeers (Boot Camp Match) (12/13/88) The Nasty Boys vs. Rock n Roll Express (4/16/88) C Jerry Lawler vs. Curt Hennig (2/19/88) Badd Company vs. Midnight Rockers (2/19/88) C- Wahoo McDaniel vs. Curt Hennig (3/19/88) Cactus Jack Manson & The Rock n Roll RPM's vs. Chavo, Hector, & Mando Guerrero (12/13/88) D+ Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (7/6/88)