JerryvonKramer

I actually looked into it a while back after Sky bought O2 (who I have my broadband with) -- thought it would be a good time to go with the superfast option and a big plus with BTInfinity is the new sports channel. Still haven't got round to switching. My understanding is that they've essentially bought the channel itself over here, so it will still be called ESPN but run entirely by BT. It's pretty strange to be honest, but I guess this comes from Virgin getting involved in providing TV and Sky getting involved in Telecoms. Those two industries are merging. Bit annoying for me because I like to keep things separate (phone with BT, TV with Sky, mobile and broadband with O2), but increasingly they want to make you take the bundle and be the one-stop shop for all services. As for what they'll show on this ESPN channel, I suspect it will be marketed around the 38 EPL games they've got and American sports which is a big growth area here. However, the BBC -- of all stations -- have picked up some NFL coverage so things are getting more competitive. Honestly, though, what I really want is for a return of the old James Richardson Football Italia show. In fact, if a station could just pick up James Richardson and have him front all their coverage, I'd be happy. Have serious man-love for AC Jimbo.

What happened to Memphis during the period in which Lawler was AWA champ?

While I was on holiday, I devised "The August Discipline". Every night my wife goes to bed around 10pm. In theory I should be going to bed around 12am -- however, as anyone who knows me will know, in practice I tend to go to bed about 5am. I want to try to finally cure my life-long insomnia by going to bed every night at 12am. I have tried to structure my activities work, rest, play, food, etc. for an entire week. I will not bore you with the irrelvant details of the rest of it, but I have ear-marked 10pm-12am every night for wrestling watching. I want to take the Chad Campbell approach of watching a couple of hours every day, instead of what I do which is leave things for ages and then "cram". I also want to be more diversified with my viewing to take in more of the footage I've collected. As such, I've devised the following system -- 2 hours per night. Monday: Midsouth or Memphis ["Mid-south / Memphis Monday"] Tuesday: New Japan Wednessday: 79-83 WWF ["WWF Wednesday"] Thursday: Yearbook Friday: Viewing for podcast -------- The only thing I'm undecided on is whether to do Mid-South or Memphis first. I actually forgot that I picked up the Memphis set.

It seems like Memphis and Portland are truly exceptions to the general rule. Greg Gange's idea that every territory hunkering down and concentrating on its own core market wouldn't work against Vince in the longterm since most territories didn't enjoy the exceptional circumstances of either Memphis or Portland. Let's say they tried that in the AWA or Mid-South, they would have been smashed by Vince and eroded by competing interests (e.g. other sports) eventually right? Seems like the MAIN thing that Memphis and Portland enjoyed was the fact that they were not those other territorities. Vince could afford not to make them a priority so he left them alone. On a side note: Loss, I made a grammatical error in the thread title that is REALLY bugging me. It should be "Was" not "Were". It's killing me. Any chance you might be able to edit it?

Really good post Johnny Guitar, thanks for that. One of the difficulties for me when I look at Crockett's schedules from the 80s is that they don't really tour an area, it's always one or two shows, then back to South Carolina or Georgia, then maybe one show in Detroit, then back to SC and GA, then two or three shows a thousand miles away, etc. It never looks very coordinated. I understand that with the show from TBS they had to "go back to base" as it were, every week. But it looks to me like they only ever crack individual towns rather than areas: Baltimore like you say, Philly, Chicago to an extent, they seem to have made a really decent fist of Detroit too. But that's it.

Don't know if you were around for the very long, heated and at times nasty debate over Mid-South's decline and oil, Mike, but here you go -- it's as full an exploration of the issue as you're likely to find on a wrestling forum: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=5538251 I recently heard Meltzer advance a theory that isn't covered in that debate (it was the Cornette interview): that people turned off UWF because it was number 3, and people don't want to watch number 3 no matter how hot the product was. -------- How much did Vince go after them I wonder? And how well did WWF draw in Memphis or Portland against them? There is an argument to say that Jarrett would understand how to appeal to fans in Memphis better than Vince and the same with Don Owens in Portland. If every territory had stuck to its guns and focused on their core market, perhaps there would have been enough pie to go round for everyone. Didn't Memphis and Portland both suffer quite badly in the late 80s though?

That's really great stuff Chris. So is the conclusion to draw from all of this that the only way any one of the territories could survive is if they either banded together to form a national conglomerate (which they tried to do) or expanded themselves? Here's one possible alternative: they get national TV but still promote regionally. Let's stick with the example of Crockett: why was it important for them to start trying to get gates up in New York? When you look at the costs involved for trying to run towns outside your regular loop, expansion attempts are going to be expensive and loss-making. Are there any examples of Crockett or Watts for that matter going into a new region and making decent money? Also, does the TV station really CARE where the shows are being run? Do the people in the audience sitting at home care where the show is coming from each week? Let's look at 1988 for Crockett, I've bolded what seem like stabs at branching out from their regular loop. JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - January 1, 1988 (12,700) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - 1988 JCP @ Asheville, NC - Civic Center - January 2, 1988 JCP @ Greensboro, NC - Coliseum - January 2, 1988 (12,457) JCP @ Roanoke, VA - Civic Center - January 3, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Baltimore, MD - Arena - January 3, 1988 JCP @ Macon, GA - Coliseum - January 4, 1988 JCP @ Spartanburg, SC - Memorial Auditroium - January 5, 1988 JCP @ Albany, GA - Gray Civic Center - January 5, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - January 6, 1988 JCP @ Jacksonville, FL - Veterans Memorial Coliseum - January 7, 1988 JCP @ Newton, NC - January 8, 1988 Canceled due to snow JCP @ Huntington, WV - Civic Center - January 9, 1988 JCP @ Greenville, SC - January 10, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - January 10, 1988 JCP @ Columbus, OH - January 10, 1988 (2,300) JCP @ Fayetteville, NC - Cumberland County Memorial Arena - January 11, 1988 JCP @ North Wilkesboro, NC - January 12, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - January 13, 1988 JCP @ Fishman, VA - January 14, 1988 (1,200) JCP @ Norfolk, VA - Scope - January 14, 1988 (4,000) JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - January 15, 1988 JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - January 15, 1988 (6,000) JCP @ Philadelphia, PA - Arena - January 16, 1988 (7,500) JCP @ Charleston, WV - January 17, 1988 (matinee) Television taping JCP @ St. Louis, MO - Arena - January 17, 1988 (5,900) The show started an hour late JCP @ Columbia, SC - January 18, 1988 JCP @ Georgetown, SC - High School Gym - January 20, 1988 JCP @ Honolulu, HI - Blaisdell Arena - January 20, 1988 (7,200; near sell out) JCP @ Inglewood, CA - Great Western Forum - January 21, 1988 (3,000) JCP @ Chesterfield, SC - January 21, 1988 JCP @ Elberton, GA - January 22, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - January 1988 JCP @ Lakeland, FL - January 23, 1988 JCP @ Cincinnati, OH - January 23, 1988 JCP @ Lakeland, FL - January 23, 1988 JCP @ Greenville, SC - January 25, 1988 JCP @ Fayetteville, NC - January 25, 1988 JCP @ Raleigh, NC - Dorton Arena - January 26, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - January 27, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - January 1988 (16,002) JCP @ Hammond, IN - Civic Center - January 28, 1988 JCP @ Harrisonburg, VA - High School - January 28, 1988 JCP @ Pittsburgh, PA - Civic Arena - January 29, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - January 1988 JCP @ Greensboro, NC - Coliseum - January 30, 1988 JCP @ Newton, NC - February 1, 1988 JCP @ Spartanburg, SC - February 2, 1988 JCP @ Miami, FL - Knight Center - February 2, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - February 3, 1988 JCP @ Jacksonville, FL - Memorial Coliseum - February 3, 1988 JCP @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - February 6, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - February 1988 JCP @ Fayetteville, NC - Cumberland County Memorial Arena - February 7, 1988 JCP @ Columbia, SC - February 7, 1988 JCP @ Macon, GA - Coliseum - February 8, 1988 JCP @ Albany, GA - Civic Center - February 9, 1988 JCP @ Columbus, GA - Municipal Auditorium - February 11, 1988 JCP @ Raliegh, NC - February 11, 1988 JCP @ Baltimore, MD - Arena - February 12, 1988 (about 10,000) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - February 1988 JCP @ Philadelphia, PA - Arena - February 13, 1988 (6,000) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - February 1988 JCP @ Chicago, IL - UIC Pavilion - February 14, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - February 14, 1988 JCP @ Albuquerque, NM - Tingley Coiseum - February 16, 1988 JCP @ Inglewood, CA - Great Western Forum - February 17, 1988 JCP @ Sioux City, IA - Municipal Auditorium - February 18, 1988 (2,750; sell out) JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - February 19, 1988 JCP @ Hillsville, VA - February 19, 1988 (900) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - February 1988 JPC @ Charleston, WV - Civic Center - February 20, 1988 JCP @ Norfolk, VA - Scope - February 20, 1988 (8,000) JCP @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - February 21, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Long Island, NY - Nassau Coliseum - February 21, 1988 JCP @ Poughkeepsie, NY - Mid-Hudson Civic Center - February 22, 1988 JCP @ Savannah, GA - Civic Center - February 23, 1988 JCP @ Asbury Park, NJ - Convention Hall - February 23, 1988 JCP @ Elizabeth, NJ - February 23, 1988 The show was cancelled due to almost no advance sales JCP @ Akron, OH - James Rhodes Arena - February 25, 1988 JCP @ Cincinnati, OH - Cincinnati Gardens - February 26, 1988 (3,500) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - February 27, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Greensboro, NC - Coliseum - February 27, 1988 (10,000) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - February 28, 1988 (7,300) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - March 2, 1988 JCP @ Harrisonburg, VA - High School - March 3, 1988 JCP @ Pittsburgh, PA - Civic Arena - March 4, 1988 (3,000) JCP @ Houston, TX - Sam Houston Coliseum - March 4, 1988 (3,000) JCP @ Louisville, KY - Convention Center - March 5, 1988 JCP @ Raleigh, NC - Dorton Arena - March 6, 1988 JCP @ St. Louis, MO - Arena - March 6, 1988 JCP @ Baltimore, MD - Arena - March 10, 1988 JCP @ Norfolk, VA - Scope - March 12, 1988 JCP @ Columbus, OH - Fairgrounds Coliseum - March 13, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - March 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - March 13, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - March 14, 1988 JCP @ Reno, NV - Lawlor Events Center - March 15, 1988 JCP @ Columbia, SC - Township Auditorium - March 15, 1988 JCP @ San Francisco, CA - Civic Auditorium - March 16, 1988 (4,500) JCP @ Inglewood, CA - Great Western Forum - March 17, 1988 JCP @ Cincinnati, OH - Cincinnati Gardens - March 18, 1988 JCP @ Chicago, IL - UIC Pavilion - March 19, 1988 JCP @ St. Louis, MO - March 1988 JCP @ Charleston, WV - Civic Center Coliseum - March 20, 1988 (matinee) (3,000) JCP @ Peoria, IL - Civic Center - March 20, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - March 1988 JCP @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - March 20, 1988 JCP @ Raleigh, NC - Dorton Arena - March 25, 1988 JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - March 26, 1988 (2,000) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - March 1988 Clash of the Champions - Greensboro, NC - Coliseum - March 27, 1988 (6,000) JCP @ Greenville, SC - Memorial Auditorium - March 28, 1988 JCP @ Columbia, SC - Township Auditorium - March 29, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - March 1988 JCP @ Spartanburg, SC - Memorial Auditorium - March 31, 1988 JCP @ Norfolk, VA - Scope - April 1, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - April 3, 1988 JCP @ Long Island, NY - Nassau Coliseum - April 8, 1988 (4,500) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - April 1988 JCP @ Philadelphia, PA - Civic Center - April 9, 1988 (matinee) (4,000) JCP @ Baltimore, MD - Arena - April 9, 1988 (9,000) JCP @ Roanoke, VA - Civic Center - April 10, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Las Cruces, NM - Pan American Center - April 11, 1988 JCP @ Albuquerque, NM - Tingley Coliseum - April 12, 1988 JCP @ Greenwood, SC - April 14, 1988 JCP @ Boston, MA - Boston Garden - April 15, 1988 JCP @ Chicago, IL - UIC Pavilion - April 16, 1988 (3,500) JCP @ Cincinnati, OH - Cincinnati Gardens - April 16, 1988 JCP @ Asheville, NC - Civic Center - April 17, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - April 17, 1988 JCP @ Miami, FL - Knight Center - April 19, 1988 (4,000) JCP @ Jacksonville, FL - Memorial Coliseum - April 20, 1988 JCP @ Harrisonburg, VA - High School - April 21, 1988 JCP @ Sumter, SC - April 21, 1988 JCP @ Charleston, SC - Civic Center - April 24, 1988 (matinee) (2,500) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - April 24, 1988 (1,400) JCP @ Fayetteville, NC - Cumberland County Memorial Arena - April 25, 1988 JCP @ Nashville, TN - Municipal Auditorium - April 25, 1988 (2,500) JCP @ Chattanooga, TN - UTC Arena - April 26, 1988 (2,500) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - April 27, 1988 JCP @ Rock Hill, SC - Winthrop Coliseum - April 28, 1988 JCP @ Washington DC - Armory - April 29, 1988 JCP @ Norfolk, VA - April 29, 1988 JCP @ Detroit, MI - Cobo Arena - April 30, 1988 (4,000) JCP @ Laurinburg, NC - Pate Stadium - April 30, 1988 (620) JCP @ Indianapolis, IN - Convention Center - May 1, 1988 JCP @ Bishopville, SC - May 2, 1988 JCP @ Schallote, NC - West Brunswick High School - May 3, 1988 JCP @ Raleigh, NC - Dorton Arena - May 5, 1988 (1,900) JCP @ Johnstown, PA - War Memorial Arena - May 5, 1988 (680) JCP @ Pittsburgh, PA - Civic Arena - May 6, 1988 (3,800) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - May 7, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Baltimore, MD - Arena - May 7, 1988 (5,500) JCP @ Roanoke, VA - Civic Center - May 8, 1988 (matinee) (3,000) JCP @ Fayetteville, NC - May 9, 1988 NWA @ Miami, FL - Knight Center - May 10, 1988 (2,943) JCP @ Cherryville, NC - May 10, 1988 JCP @ Tallahassee, FL - Leon County Civic Center - May 11, 1988 JCP @ Walterboro, SC - May 12, 1988 JCP @ Weslaco, TX - High School Stadium - May 12, 1988 JCP @ Hammond, IN - May 13, 1988 JCP @ Houston, TX - Sam Houston Coliseum - May 13, 1988 (4,800) JCP @ Chicago, IL - UIC Pavilion - May 14, 1988 JCP @ Wilmington, NC - Legion Stadium - May 15, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Asheville, NC - Civic Center - May 15, 1988 (500) JCP @ Greenville, SC - May 16, 1988 JCP @ West Jefferson, NC - May 17, 1988 JCP @ Fisherville, VA - May 19, 1988 (3,500) JCP @ Norfolk, VA - Scope - May 20, 1988 (4,000) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - May 21, 1988 JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - May 21, 1988 (7,000) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - May 22, 1988 (7,300) JCP @ Hartsville, SC - May 23, 1988 JCP @ Fayetteville, NC - Cumberland County Memorial Arena - May 23, 1988 JCP @ Elberton, GA - May 24, 1988 JCP @ Hillsville, VA - May 24, 1988 (800) JCP @ Louisville, KY - Commonwealth Convention Center - May 26, 1988 JCP @ St. Louis, MO - Arena - May 27, 1988 (3,100) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - May 28, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Charleston, WV - May 28, 1988 (2,500) JCP @ Greensboro, NC - Coliseum - May 29, 1988 (4,000) JCP @ Union, SC - May 30, 1988 JCP @ Savannah, GA - Civic Center - May 30, 1988 JCP @ Sumter, SC - Exhibition Center Arena - May 31, 1988 JCP @ Bluefield, WV - Brushfork Armory - June 2, 1988 JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - June 3, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - June 4, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - June 4, 1988 JCP @ Roanoke, VA - Civic Center - June 5, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Columbus, OH - June 5, 1988 JCP @ Greenville, SC - June 6, 1988 JCP @ Columbia, SC - June 7, 1988 Clash of the Champions II "Miami Mayhem" - Miami, FL - Knight Center - June 8, 1988 JCP @ Tallahassee, FL - Leon County Civic Center - June 9, 1988 JCP @ Houston, TX - Sam Houston Coliseum - June 10, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - June 11, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Baltimore, MD - Arena - June 11, 1988 (5,500) JCP @ Florence, SC - Civic Center - June 11, 1988 JCP @ Asheville, NC - Civic Center - June 12, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Albany, GA - Civic Center - June 12, 1988 JCP @ Columbus, GA - June 13, 1988 JCP @ Spartanburg, SC - Memorial Auditorium - June 14, 1988 JCP @ Harrisonburg, VA - High School Gym - June 16, 1988 JCP @ Charleston, WV - Civic Center - June 17, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - June 18, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Philadelphia, PA - Civic Center - June 18, 1988 (5,900) JCP @ Johnson City, TN - Freedom Hall - June 19, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Montgomery, AL - Garrett Coliseum - June 20, 1988 JCP @ Birmingham, AL - Civic Center - June 21, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - June 22, 1988 NWA @ Nashville, TN - Municipal Auditorium - June 23, 1988 JCP @ Charlottesville, VA - University Hall - June 24, 1988 JCP @ Orlando, FL - Orange County Convention Center - June 26, 1988 (6,000) JCP @ Greenville, SC - Memorial Auditorium - June 27, 1988 (4,700; a few hundred short of a sell out) JCP @ Columbia, SC - Township Auditorium - June 28, 1988 (sell out) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - June 29, 1988 JCP @ Norfolk, VA - Scope - July 1, 1988 JCP @ Charlotte, NC - Memorial Stadium - July 2, 1988 (about 10,000) JCP @ Amarillo, TX - Civic Center - July 3, 1988 (6,000; near sell out) JCP @ Dallas, TX - Reunion Arena - July 4, 1988 (5,000) JCP @ Miami, FL - Knight Center - July 5, 1988 JCP @ Tampa, FL - Stadium - July 6, 1988 JCP @ Raleigh, NC - Dorton Arena - July 7, 1988 JCP @ Pittsburgh, PA - Civic Arena - July 8, 1988 JCP @ Chicago, IL - UIC Pavilion - July 9, 1988 (6,500) The Main Event - 7/10/88 - hosted by Jim Ross & Tony Schiavone - hype show for the Great American Bash pay-per-view later that night Great American Bash 88 - Baltimore, MD - Arena - July 10, 1988 (13,000) JCP @ Salisbury, MD - July 11, 1988 JCP @ Huntsville, AL - July 12, 1988 (3,000) JCP @ Chattanooga, TN - July 14, 1988 JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - July 15, 1988 JCP @ Greensboro, NC - War Memorial Stadium - July 16, 1988 JCP @ Charleston, WV - Civic Center - July 17, 1988 (6,500) JCP @ Columbus, GA - Municipal Auditorium - July 18, 1988 (4,200) JCP @ Macon, GA - Coliseum - July 19, 1988 JCP @ Cincinnati, OH - Cincinnati Gardens - July 21, 1988 (4,000) JCP @ St. Louis, MO - Arena - July 22, 1988 (6,000) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - July 1988 JCP @ Philadelphia, PA - Civic Center - July 23, 1988 (7,520) JCP @ Roanoke, VA - Civic Center - July 24, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Johnson City, TN - Freedom Hall - July 24, 1988 JCP @ Fayetteville, NC - Cumberland County Memorial Arena - July 25, 1988 JCP @ Savannah, GA - Civic Center - July 26, 1988 JCP @ Jacksonville, FL - Memorial Coliseum - July 27, 1988 JCP @ Daytona Beach, FL - Ocean Center - July 28, 1988 (5,500) JCP @ Houston, TX - Sam Houston Coliseum - July 29, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - August 1988 JCP @ Landover, MD - Capital Centre - July 30, 1988 JCP @ Detroit, MI - Cobo Arena - July 31, 1988 (7,000) JCP @ Milwaukee, WI - Mecca - August 1, 1988 JCP @ Columbus, GA - Municipal Auditorium - August 1988 JCP @ Sioux City, IA - Municipal Auditorium - August 2, 1988 JCP @ Seattle, WA - Arena - August 3, 1988 JCP @ Las Vegas, NV - Thomas & Mack Center - August 4, 1988 (3,200) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - August 1988 JCP @ Inglewood, CA - Great Western Forum - August 5, 1988 JCP @ Oakland, CA - Kaiser Convention Center - August 6, 1988 (6,000) JCP @ Kansas City, MO - Kemper Arena - August 7, 1988 (6,800) JCP @ Norfolk, VA - Scope - August 12, 1988 (9,500) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Center Stage Theatre - August 1988 JCP @ Macon, GA - Coliseum - August 13, 1988 JCP @ Raleigh, NC - Dorton Arena - August 18, 1988 JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - August 19, 1988 (13,000; near sell out) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Center Stage Theatre - August 1988 JCP @ Philadelphia, PA - Civic Center - August 20, 1988 JCP @ Cincinatti, OH - Cincinnati Gardens - August 21, 1988 JCP @ Sumter, SC - Fairgrounds Exhibition Center - August 23, 1988 (sell out) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - August 24, 1988 JCP @ Columbus, GA - Municipal Auditorium - August 25, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - August 26, 1988 (13,700) JCP @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - August 27, 1988 (13,500) JCP @ Greensboro, NC - Coliseum - August 28, 1988 (6,000) JCP @ Greenville, SC - August 29, 1988 JCP @ Savannah, GA - Civic Center - August 30, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - August 31, 1988 JCP @ Raleigh, NC - Dorton Arena - September 1, 1988 JCP @ Norfolk, VA - Scope - September 2, 1988 JCP @ Baltimore, MD - Arena - September 3, 1988 (11,000) JCP @ Detroit, MI - Cobo Arena - September 4, 1988 (7,500) JCP @ Covington, GA - September 5, 1988 (5,500) JCP @ Seattle, WA - Sports Arena - September 1988 Clash of the Champions III "Fall Brawl" - Albany, GA - Civic Center - September 7, 1988 (3,700) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - September 1988 JCP @ Houston, TX - Sam Houston Coliseum - September 9, 1988 (3,000) JCP @ Philadelphia, PA - Civic Center - September 10, 1988 (6,532) JCP @ Fayetteville, NC - Cumberland County Memorial Arena - September 11, 1988 (matinee) JCP @ Greensboro, NC - Coliseum - September 11, 1988 (2,500) JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - September 16, 1988 JCP @ Charleston, SC - Johnson-Hagwood Stadium - September 17, 1988 JCP @ Roanoke, VA - Civic Center - September 18, 1988 (3,200) JCP @ Frederick, MD - Community College Fieldhouse - September 23, 1988 JCP @ Washington DC - Armory - September 24, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - September 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - September 25, 1988 (6,700) JCP @ Columbus, GA - Municipal Auditorium - September 27, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - September 1988 JCP @ Hammond, IN - Civic Center - September 29, 1988 JCP @ Winnipeg, Manitoba - September 30, 1988 (4,000) JCP @ Brandon, Manitoba - October 1, 1988 (1,000) JCP @ Chicago, IL - UIC Pavilion - October 2, 1988 JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - October 1988 JCP @ Macon, GA - October 4, 1988 (2,900) JCP @ Raleigh, NC - October 6, 1988 (700) JCP @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - October 7, 1988 JCP @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - October 9, 1988 JCP @ Greensboro, NC - Coliseum - October 9, 1988 (4,000) JCP @ Greenville, SC - October 10, 1988 JCP @ Fayetteville, NC - October 11, 1988 (300) JCP @ Charleston, SC - October 1988 JCP @ Philadelphia, PA - Civic Center - October 15, 1988 (4,418) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - October 1988 JCP @ Baltimore, MD - Arena - October 16, 1988 (6,000) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - October 1988 JCP @ Saginaw, MI - October 20, 1988 JCP @ Lansing, MI - October 1988 JCP @ Detroit, MI - Coboa Arena - October 21, 1988 (1,300) JCP @ Cincinnati, OH - October 22, 1988 (1,800) JCP @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - October 1988 JCP @ Jackson, MS - October 27, 1988 JCP @ New Orleans, LA - Municipal Auditorium - October 29, 1988 JCP @ Alexandria, LA - October 30, 1988 (2,792) JCP @ Savannah, GA - Civic Center - November 1, 1988 NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - November 2, 1988 NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - November 3, 1988 NWA @ Louisville, KY - November 4, 1988 NWA @ Dayton, OH - UD Arena - November 5, 1988 NWA @ Roanoke, VA - Civic Center - November 6, 1988 (matinee) NWA @ Johnson City, TN - Freedom Hall - November 6, 1988 NWA @ Greenwood, SC - Civic Center - November 9, 1988 NWA @ Johnstown, PA - Cambria County War Memorial Arena - November 10, 1988 (1,549) NWA @ Pittsburgh, PA - Civic Arena - November 11, 1988 NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - November 1988 NWA @ Johnstown, PA - War Memorial Arena - November 10, 1988 (1,549) NWA @ Pittsburgh, PA - Civic Arena - November 11, 1988 (3,400) NWA @ Columbus, OH - Fairgrounds Coliseum - November 12, 1988 (2,500-3,000) NWA @ Huntington, WV - Civic Center - November 13, 1988 (matinee) (5,000) NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - November 14, 1988 NWA @ Albany, GA - Civic Center - November 15, 1988 NWA @ Raleigh, NC - Dorton Arena - November 16, 1988 NWA @ Norfolk, VA - Scope - November 17, 1988 NWA @ Washington DC - Armory - November 18, 1988 NWA @ Philadelphia, PA - Civic Center - November 19, 1988 (5,000) NWA @ ? - November 1988 NWA @ Chicago, IL - UIC Pavilion - November 20, 1988 NWA @ Sumter, SC - November 22, 1988 NWA @ Baltimore, MD - Arena - November 23, 1988 (9,000) NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - November 24, 1988 (matinee) NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - November 1988 NWA @ Atlanta, GA - Omni - November 24, 1988 (8,000) NWA @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - November 25, 1988 (5,000) NWA @ Greensboro, NC - Coliseum - November 26, 1988 (7,500) NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - November 27, 1988 NWA @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - November 27, 1988 (3,500) NWA @ Macon, GA - Coliseum - November 28, 1988 NWA @ Las Vegas, NV - Showboat - November 29, 1988 (2,500) NWA @ San Francisco, CA - Civic Auditorium - November 30, 1988 (2,700) NWA @ Albuquerque, NM - Tingley Coliseum - December 1, 1988 (4,700) NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - December 1988 NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - December 1988 NWA @ Amarillo, TX - Civic Center - December 2, 1988 NWA @ Houston, TX - Sam Houston Coliseum - December 3, 1988 (1,200) NWA @ Lubbock, TX - December 4, 1988 (900) NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - December 5, 1988 NWA @ Columbus, GA - December 6, 1988 (2,300) Clash of the Champions IV "Seasons Beatings" - Chattanooga, TN - December 7, 1988 NWA @ Hampton, VA - Coliseum - December 9, 1988 NWA @ Philadelphia, PA - Civic Center - December 10, 1988 (1,626) (the smallest Philadelphia wrestling crowd in decades) NWA @ ? - December 1988 NWA @ Richmond, VA - Coliseum - December 11, 1988 (the smallest Richmond wrestling crowd ever) NWA @ Atlanta, GA - WTBS Studios - December 12, 1988 NWA @ Gainesville, GA - Georgia Mountains Center - December 14, 1988 NWA @ Raleigh, NC - Dorton Arena - December 15, 1988 NWA @ Winston-Salem, NC - December 16, 1988 (3,000) NWA @ Greenville, SC - December 25, 1988 (matinee) NWA @ Charlotte, NC - Coliseum - December 25, 1988 (5,000) Starrcade 88 "True Gritt" - Norfolk, VA - Scope - December 26, 1988 (10,000) NWA @ Washington DC - Armory - December 27, 1988 (1,800) NWA @ Chicago, IL - UIC Pavilion - December 28, 1988 (2,987) NWA @ Milwaukee, WI - Mecca - December 29, 1988 NWA @ St. Louis, MO - Keil Auditorium - December 30, 1988 (4,500) I'd be interested to know if the bolded shows alone created a net profit or a net loss. Hard to believe that lugging a ring all the way to Iowa for a show which attracted less than 3,000 fans was worth the time, money and effort. They didn't do bad in Detroit though.

HHH didn't have a big hand in destroying a company though. Charisma doesn't make you immune from criticism if your crimes are big enough and Hogan's "crimes" during that era far outweigh Hunter's. If HHH was as likeable as Hogan, perhaps he wouldn't be as hated as he is. People resent HHH's time on top -- and this is my personal take -- because he doesn't have and has never had the X Factor to be there. So they find whatever reasons they can to criticise him to justify their dislike. This isn't anything premeditated on the part of fans, it's just the way the human mind works. He's not very likable, so will de facto attract more criticism than Austin even if Austin was in the same spot doing the same stuff because people want to find reasons for their gut feelings. You can look at someone like Richard Nixon (just not a very likeable guy), and a someone like Bill Clinton (charismatic) and how each of them were able to deal with knocks and adversity. Or Tony Blair (charismatic) who was still able to win elections despite being widely perceived as a liar, and Gordon Brown (just not a very likable guy) was more or less destroyed by his inability to get over with the media despite being widely perceived as being quite a clever chap. The initial question was about if Austin would be perceived like HHH is, and my view is that it comes down to that.

Reckon this comes down to charisma. One man has bags of it, the other has virtually none of it and to make matters worse doesn't seem to realise it. People dislike Hunter because he's not very likable, then find reasons to justify their dislike.

So it's mainly a case of the national product making the guys on the regional rosters look like small fry? "Why should we care about these guys in the minor leagues when I could watch the big boys"? Is that true though? Did AWA fans suddenly start thinking Bockwinkel, the Gagnes, Rick Martel and Jerry Blackwell were small fry? Perhaps the AWA is a bad example because they were so big anyway and had ESPN, how about Lawler in Memphis? Or all of the guys who weren't JYD and who Vince didn't poach from Watts in that region? Or the Von Erichs? Also, how much can we expect being "part of the NWA" mitigates against that effect? "These guys are wrestling here in Florida, but they are part of an a nationwide major league in which anyone can rise to be the champion". Finally -- and you alluded to this yourself Loss -- there is the TYPE of fan. We all know about Black Saturday. Vince's cartoon-y product surely wasn't going to get over with all of the fans. Just playing devil's advocate a bit to test this claim that cable = doom for the territories.

Why was this the case? What happened? Let's say you were a guy in, I dunno, Jackson, Mississippi. Did the fact that you got cable suddenly mean you stopped getting or watching local TV? I'm just trying to understand first why the rise of a national WWF would lead to the decline of regional promotions.

Still waiting for some sort of explaination for the existence of Ranger Ross.

Watching the Greg Gagne Guest Booker made me think about whether the territories might have survived somehow. Is it a given that the rise of one big national company leads necessarily to the decline and fall of smaller regional ones? Vince was extremely agressive. According to Greg, he did things like book key venues for 3 years and priced out the competition. He also poached a lot of talent. But was it the case that Vince was going up against these promotions head-to-head in their own back yard and out drawing them? It sometimes seems more like a case of business sabotage rather than one company doing someone better than another. The strategy of most of the other companies seemed to have two prongs: 1. Band together 2. Follow Vince's example and expand I think both of these things had negative consequences. Banding together never worked with the big egos involved, and expansion attempts were costly and often doomed to failure. I think you can see it with AWA, Mid South and to an extent Crockett too. Wouldn't all of these companies have been better served focusing on their core markets? Did the fact that Vince had national TV affect their local gates? If so, why? Was Vince able to outdraw, say, Watts in New Orleans or Fritz in Texas or Graham in Florida? (etc. etc.) If so, how?

I'm wondering if an XWT Classics torrent upload might be the way to go here.

I'd just like to say on record that when Race is doing bombs all over the place like in that Martel match, I really dig him. I do think that Race sometimes feels dislocated from the match or narrative he's supposed to be a part of. This was my big criticism of his Starrcade 83 match. Matt D - are you trying to get "meaningless selling" over as the new "meaningless depth"?

We might be able to use my site for this ... the hosts are on my case about the podcast using too much bandwidth though. How big are the files Brian?

The Greg Gagne Guest Booker might be my favourite one of those. The first 30-40 minutes when he's talking about Vince's dirty tactics in 1984 are really good

During my holiday and on the plane, I watched a whole bunch of the old Legends of Wrestling shows. Last two I saw were the 1970s one and the Tag Teams one where the panel is: Nick Bockwinkel, Michael Hayes, JJ Dillon and Pat Patterson with Okerlund hosting. I'd say around a 30% of those two shows total revolved around discussion of Ray Stevens, as a worker, as a guy, as a tag worker ... as a character in real life he comes across as someone who is between Flair (up all night, wild party guy) and Curt Hennig (FUN guy). There's quite a lot of random clips of Stevens from all over the place scattered in all that. They seem to have good footage of him teaming with Bock from both Florida and AWA reckon about mid-70s judging by Bock's hair. Again, he didn't look amazing in any of the clips, although he did do an Ole Anderson-style knee drop from the top rope in one of them. Bockwinkel and Patterson both say he was one of the all-time greats to work with and made them elevate their game. Here's the thing I was thinking about when I was watching that and when I read Dylan's post: I don't think any of us as fans really understand where wrestlers are coming from with their assessments a lot of the time. I'll give you another example: Dory Funk Jr. We've all seen plenty of Dory. I've gone out of my way to watch NWA Champ Dory to see if there's a marked difference from the boring old fart we see in the 80s. There really isn't. We all hate Dory. Yet, I've never ever ever heard any guy who stepped into the ring with him say a bad word about him as a worker. Dory is frequently cited by wrestlers of that generation as a GOAT. JJ Dillon picked him out as the greatest wrestler he'd ever had a match with. Workers from the 70s think Brisco vs. Dory is the best match of all time. There's something they are getting that most hardcore fans watching the footage are not getting. I'm not saying for certain that Ray Stevens was never any better than what we've seen, I'm just saying that I wouldn't be all that surprised if even peak Stevens wasn't all that. I think it comes down to this: fans and wrestlers look for different things in workers.* I think this also works the other way too: look at Luger. You'll never hear any wrestler give Luger any credit for anything because he was hard to work with. You'll never hear anyone knock Dory or -- let's say Ted DiBiase or even a guy like Jake Roberts -- because they were all easy to work with. *NB. I do also think that there was a tendency with "smart" fans back in the day to inherit reps from wrestlers' opinions without questioning them. All the guys say this guy is GOAT level, so he's GOAT level. This also happened between wrestlers. For example, Bock freely admitted that he'd never even seen Patterson and Stevens work as a team, only ever heard about them. The same was true the other way around: Patterson hadn't seen Bock with Stevens. Also, it's easy to see how massive mythical reps can build in that way. Intuitions come first, reasoning follows. JJ Dillon has built up Stevens as this great worker in his head, so he goes into a match with him with that already in mind. He has the match and Stevens is easy to work with: so all the things he heard about him are true. Classic confirmation bias.

Was there ever a guy who defined "career journeyman" more than Doug Somers? Here he is jobbing to Arachnaman in 1991: Got to be a career low for him. During the match Jim Ross calls him a "journeyman competitor".

Just watched the Bobby Eaton one from High Spots. Truly awful.

Awesome post. Will - is it possible just to get discs 1-6 of your Rose set? Or some way of having a bonus 79 disc for the Portland set? Send 15% commission to Matt D.

Super drop off in quality here, but Hennig is great in a lot of slightly above average matches. Was pretty disappointed in the Dundee/Lawler vs. Midnights match. Disc 9 rankings B+ Nick Bockwinkel vs. Larry Zbyszko (7/11/87) Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (3/7/87) B Nick Bockwinkel vs. Curt Hennig (5/2/87) Wahoo McDaniel vs. Curt Hennig (Indian Strap Match) (11/28/87) B- Greg Gagne vs. Larry Zbyszko (July 1987) C+ Wahoo McDaniel vs. Curt Hennig (9/12/87) Greg Gagne vs. Curt Hennig (5/30/87) Curt Hennig vs. Mitch Snow (10/30/87) Bill Dundee & Jerry Lawler vs. Original Midnight Express (10/30/87) C Curt Hennig vs. DJ Petersen (8/29/87) Larry Zbyszko vs. Ray Stevens (5/30/87) Wahoo McDaniel vs. Boris Zuhkov (Russian Chain Match) (8/29/87) C- Nick Bockwinkel & Ray Stevens vs. Super Ninja & Larry Zbyszko (2/21/87) D+ Midnight Rockers vs. Kevin Kelly & Nick Kiniski (12/27/87) D- Col. Debeers vs. Jimmy Snuka (Glove On A Pole Match) (2/21/87) MVP: This guy

Rockers vs. Kevin Kelly & Nick Kiniski That Kevin Kelly? No fucking Nailz! Sarp is right: he really looks like Steve Austin. This is a VERY WWF opening to this match with the Rockers running in and cleaning house. They might have only been there a day but they seem to have picked that up. This is the disc of utter randomness with some of these guys cropping up. I can leave this matwork sequence between Kiniski and Michaels. Rockers legdrop / elbow drop double team spot is cool. Random observation: the crowd here in very late 87 is not as thin as I'd expect to see. Kelly is horrible. Dan Spivey horrible. Kiniski looks a lot better. Bearhug into a pin is something I don't recall seeing too often. Rockers are super-over here. Crappy finish. This will be low for me. D+

Wahoo vs. Cool Curt And how cool is Curt! I would have just loved him as a kid if I'd seen AWA. Hennig has been incredible so far here, turning up the intensity to the max. Wahoo's comeback is great here. Grit, determination, old man anger! This is great. Hennig just did the Windham suplex into a pin spot. WHAT THE FUCK?! Adrian Adonis! What's he wearing? Greg in a pair of joggers! What just happened? Man nooooooo, this was excellent until that happened. Damn, that's annoying. B

Dundee / Lawler vs. Original Midnights How exciting is this then! I've absolutely loved every second I've seen of Dundee in NWA and love Condrey. Lawler still feels like this big undiscovered country for me. Randy Rose, honestly in my mind rightly or wrongly, is a glorified jobber -- but y'know you could make an argument that a guy like Doug Somers is that and he was phenomenal on this set. Paul E. is there too! This is interesting since I've saw a good chunk of their NWA run not too long ago. Rose looks a lot better with a moustache and shorter hair than how he'd look in 88. Some excellent punching here. Paul E. looks like he got his suit from a secondhand store, it's at least 2 sizes too big for him. Very standard match in my view, nothing exceptional. C+