JerryvonKramer

The first group there is a killer, three of my traditional favourite guys. I'm going to go against my natural instincts to comply with Coffey's wish for this to be "in ring only". I think it's safe to say Hennig is number 3. But Rude vs. DiBiase is tough. I think Rude's peaks are higher than DiBiase's, but DiBiase had the longer career as a top guy. Also, objectively, he was a better worker than Rude. Despite the great matches with Warrior, I don't see Rude as "broomstick worker". I think Rude could be lazy. He's a guy that might sit in a chin-lock for 10 minutes if he didn't feel like putting in a shift. I think DiBiase was smoother than Rude at all the basics. Like, he had a better vertical suplex or a better piledriver. His selling was generally better, which isn't a knock on Rude's selling. DiBiase could also work different styles, terrific brawler as we know, and more than competent as a technical wrestler - could work dominant and on top (see most of 88 run), or be a sniveling coward (see Money Inc). Rude by contrast is quite one-note, he's always more or less the same guy, same style. I think Rude's best matches (e.g. against Steamboat, Beach Blast 92) are better than DiBiase's best (e.g. vs. Duggan, vs. Savage), but Ted's more of a total package. I think Ted edges it. 1. Ted DiBiase 2. Rick Rude 3. Curt Hennig My one qualifier here is that I'm yet to see Curt's AWA stuff. But that's going to have to be out-of-this world good to get ahead of the other two here.

Luger - Has there ever been a guy whose career and people's memory of it has been more affected by crappy booking and heat backstage? Never has a guy been subject to more badly-timed and downright illogical turns than Luger. And he was never "one of the boys" so everybody and their uncle has absolutely buried him in shoots, which has partly led to him not being well liked by "smart" internet fans. That standard line is that he was actually great in 1988-9 but got lazy after that. I actually think he had good moments right through the 90s.

I did write Triple H originally, but then saw he's already in.

I enjoyed this immensely. I like Kurt, and enjoyed the shows he did with Bix a few years ago. Can't understand him not digging Ventura on commentary, but I'll forgive that. I reckon I was on about a 60% name recognition rate with some of the guys you were discussing here. Some proper obscura. I also find the whole LA scene quite interesting, especially as it's the one territory that died a real death before the 80s boom, so no one really pays it much attention. Interesting that Kurt should pimp Tolos so heavily. I also find it deeply ironic that Dave has a ballot but Dylan doesn't. I'm picturing a Twilight Zone episode where everyone in the entire world has a ballot except Dylan and his War-and-Peace-sized case for Jerry Blackwell. Episode ends with Meltzer inducting Eugene, Virgil and Spike Dudley into the Hall of Fame.

Just thinking he was as over as anyone in that time frame.

Was Mr. Perfect considered as a possible babyface champ at this time?

I seem to remember Dory Funk Jr vs. Brody being better than one might expect.

How does Bruce justify the infamous Luger match?

Where the Big Boys Play #14 – Starrcade 86: Part 2 Brian, Chad and Parv wrap up Starrcade 86. On this show: Chad reveals he used to babysit for the Big Boss Man, general feelings about scaffold matches, end of show award picks, and Parv recounts his online debate with PWO’s Matt D about Tully’s involvement in the Baby Doll face turn and the amazing intervention of JJ Dillon into that discussion.

Do you think Condrey and Eaton would go in based on everything pre-87?

Can't remember what I was watching or listening to now -- think it might have been an interview with Gary Michael Capetta -- but someone was saying that Verne had never even seen his own TV show.

Scans would be preferable for me since it would be research and also my wife would kill me if I started collecting old wrestling mags.

I've suddenly got an interest in acquiring PWIs from that period. Have they ever been scanned or would I have to go looking for physical copies?

To be honest, what khawk has just described sounds like one of the most fun jobs ever conceived.

Isn't Apter in already? Assumed he would be. I still don't entirely get his whole deal. Writing a basically kayfabe magazine without official endorsement? How did it work? Did he just make stuff up?

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=14256 There's a discussion on alternative match structures I tried to start once. I was naive. There are no alternative match structures, only variations on the structure outlined above. This is not a bad thing. It's just the grammar of wrestling.

All, repeat ALL wrestling matches are a variation on the following structure: Shine Stretch Hope spot Comeback Finish You can add in bits and pieces. You can have two stretches and two comebacks. You can add in a section where the face is on top for a bit if you want. You can skip the shine (see a lot of Hansen matches). But fundamentally all matches are made of the same basic ingredients.

Don't underestimate LoD at that time too.

Finished disc one of Cornette Guest booker now, and although Funk as IC champ in 2001 is a bit strange, I can see what he's doing. He was accused of being out of touch and "too old school", how is the concept of worked shoots too old school? Pretty radical for 2001, or even now.

I've said this before, but I think the boom in the UK happened a little bit after it happened in the US and it peaked in 92 and virtually died a death by 93. It was very short lived. I'd say after King of the Ring 93, it was already gone. Incidentally, I carried a briefcase to school around that time and it I can't recall how many times it was used to recreate IRS's attack on Brutus Beefcake's face. That's how over wrestling was at that point, that a briefcase would immediately = Irwin R. Shyster.

Here's one that occurred to me watching AWA earlier: Greg Gagne vs. RVD In my mind, these are both guys who had a unique way of doing things, who plenty of people hate on whether rightly or wrongly. Also ... Vader vs. Jerry Blackwell from a few pages before on this -- Blackwell almost seems like a "different kind of fat" to me. Know what I mean by that? I mean Vader somehow looks like he should be able to do some of the shit he does. Blackwell in no way looks like he should be able to jump, let alone do some of the shit he does. I'm saying this after one match. He's closer to like a Giant Haystacks build.

I think he's out-of-touch & was trying to create something that no WWE fan would have gave a shit about. I don't think the Invasion angle played out well, mind you, but his was somehow worse. Killing kayfabe & playing the "I know all that shit was fake but THIS is real!" is the same exact shit that he blasts Vince Russo for. Granted Cornette didn't have a ton of time to come up with his ideas, but with how fast-paced and last-minute wrestling seems to be nowadays, that's not really a credible excuse to cling to anymore. He's just delusion or incapable of adapting to the times that have changed. Hey, I loved Terry Funk, & Dusty Rhodes & the like too. That doesn't mean you have them wrestling in the year 2001 on one of your big shows, let alone going over younger guys. I still haven't seen past week 1 -- ended up watching some AWA instead. So he hasn't mentioned Funk or Dusty yet. I was just entertained by the promos he cut on behalf of Vince and co and by his massive rant preceding that. I might have a go at rebooking the invasion myself. Hey, it's an old idea, but might be fun to try.