JerryvonKramer

Fourthing. I might be good to move all the old more meta-critical stuff and discussions of aesthetics etc. here too. You know, "is a cloud art?" and that sort of thing.

To me it's more about "these stupid people won't know the difference anyway" than anything else. The idea that hawaiian playing japanese would fly seems pretty racist to me. Iron Sheik playing an Iraki sympathiser was particulary hilarious though. What's funny is that the one legit Japanese guy, Killer Khan, played a Mongolian. Nikolai Volkoff was pretty racially flexible, he also played a Mongolian, as well as a Russian, while he was from Croatia. Geeto Mongol, meanwhile, was from Canada. Another one to think about is The Grand Wizard: he was a Jewish guy who played an Arab when he was managing the Sheik as Abdullah Farouk.

I'd have given anything to see Savage drop the elbow on Sapphire. Anything.

Abdullah would be really interesting, he worked absolutely everywhere from Australia to Japan and Puerto Rico and most of the territories and , later, indies for over 30 years.

This is something I've pondered for years now. While a knee-jerk reflexive view of "race in wrestling" would tell us that it is typically marked by jingoism, xenophobia, and small-minded patriotism, I'm going to argue that while that might have been true of the crowds it is not true of the performance practices of the wrestlers. Race and nationality are cultural constructs -- they are constructed and performative in ways that are obvious. In wrestling, they have always been fluid in ways that are remarkably "progressive" if one thinks about it. - Think of Sheik Adnan Al-Kaisey, who spent a good portion of his career in the native American gimmick of Billy White Wolf, and tagging with another "Native American" who wasn't really Native American, of course, the Italian-American Chief Jay Strongbow. - Later on, Adnan, played up his real-life association with Saddam Hussein. As part of the angle, he recruited Col. Mustafa, aka the Iron Sheik, of course an Iranian. And the bloodshed and turmoil of the Iran-Iraq war was forgotten in an instant as an Iraqi and Iranian stood side-by-side with an American. - There are countless examples of "Japanese" wrestlers, who are, in fact, Hawaiin. - What about that famous firey Irishman Red McNulty? You know, the one who is actually Canadian and spent over 25 years playing "Ivan Koloff", the Russian Bear? A lot of these gimmicks were exploitative in terms of playing on the prejudices of their audiences, and playing to the political hot-button topics of their day. But look behind the curtain and what do we find? It's actually a view of race that says "you know what, we're all the same, it actually doesn't make a difference if you are Canadian, Iranian, Hawaiin, Native American or whatever ... a gimmick is a gimmick, they won't know the difference, and who cares". It seems counter-intuitive to say that this is "progressive", but it seems to me that if everyone had this view of race we would have less racism. The Carny mindset is an interesting one to consider. It's a club. Once you're in the club, it doesn't matter where you are from, you are part of the club. I think of Tod Browning's Freaks (1932) and its real themes of inclusivity. Yes, it is an inclusivity based on an "us" and "them" mentality against a hostile world, but still, within the carnival, everyone is family. And wrestling retained a sense of this from its side-show roots, I think. Wrestling had its fair share of misfits, but they were all part of the crew. When your attitude is all about working the fans, then everything in life -- even race and nationality -- becomes a work.

It's true in every sport though. In most sports they keep their tops on. Cena walks around semi-naked and has a six-pack. Sasha Banks has BOSS written across her arse. It's a more body-centric and image-centric medium than many other sports.

I think that one reason why wrestling has a harder time with this than other arenas is because the body is so central to what a wrestler is. So the whole issue of sexualisation is foregrounded in ways that they might not be in the typical workplace.

http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-83-halloween-havoc-92/ In a loaded show, Chad and Parv welcome Robert (aka thebrainfollower) to discuss Halloween Havoc 92. [0:02:36] Wrestling Observer Round-up: including, in-depth analysis of the state of the business across WWF and WCW in August 1992, assessing some more of Bill Watts's cost-cutting measures and booking decisions; a random excursion into how Lord Alfred Hayes finally quit the WWF and how Gordon Solie quit WCW in 1995; how on earth do Butch Reed, Damian Demento and Tony Atlas factor into WCW in October 1992?; Greg Valentine quits; Hercules's post-WCW New Japan run in 1993; and the news that long-time WTBBP fans have been waiting for for years ... Jimmy Jam Garvin finally released from his contract ... but given an insane $180,000 pay off! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! [1:42:04] Review of Halloween Havoc '92: the birth of smarky crowds; the ridiculousness of Arn, Eaton and Hayes vs. Zenk, Gunn, and Douglas "on paper"; a lot of analysis of the Jesse Ventura vs. Jim Ross pairing; the convoluted nature of Bill Watts's executive announcements; the tragedy that is the loss of Rick Rude's moustache; the mystery of Chono being a top guy; thoughts on the Barbarian as a world title contender; and is this the worst PPV we've reviewed so far? [3:16:20] End of show awards

Someone wanted to see it: The black guy is because I told her about my childhood rating system. 1 point for moustache, 1 point for beard, 1 point for white hair, 1 point for glasses and 1 point for being black. If there was ever a game show, I'd root for anyone who had the most points. My love of Arn and Ted and Rude actually all derive from that point system. Mr. T did very well too! Ha ha.

So the takeaway from this is that wrestling isn't all that diverse after all? And because it's not that diverse we should respect all styles equally? I just want to ensure I have the central thesis right.

It's true to say that these assertions aren't always examined. Chad did some pretty diligent work examining Misawa during his frequently dismissed Tiger Mask II run but I didn't see much engagement with that. See here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/33392-the-burning-question/

Is the suggestion that because there are fewer styles, they are all equally important?

snapelookinggrumpy.gif I might review some of these matches later, why not.

My point is that the insistence on some sort of representation of every style is one I can't sign up to. Do dubstep artists really deserve to get ranked in my theoretical top 100? I have no problem saying something like "nah, skrillex isn't as good as even the 30th best and most important rockabilly acts". My explorations of both rockabilly and dubstep -- a genre I consider to be basically an aberration -- have led me to that conclusion. I advocate exploring, I don't advocate the need to demonstrate all of that exploration in the list. The best of dubstep is quite good on its own terms, but that is neither here nor there in the overall scheme of a top 100. -------- As a small and hopefully amusing aside, I went on a date two years ago in which I said "do you hear that swooshing noise coming from down there? I believe that is called dubstep". This woman found that hilarious and next time I saw her had made a full dubstep compilation CD adorned with artwork she'd drawn herself and covered with various quotes from stuff I'd said on that date. Was a pretty sweet, if also quite weird, gesture. But it did increase my knowledge of dubstep significantly. I didn't see her again. When I get home I might upload a pic of that CD, cos it remains one of the most remarkable things I have in my possession.

Are those NXT crowds the same as the crowd we saw in Chicago on Sunday?

Let's all marinate in the juices of unbridled subjectivity and celebrate as Justin Bieber fans gleefully declare Believe as being "better than Nirvana, Bob Dylan and Prince combined". One fan was quoted as saying, "the music just speaks to me so much more. I just love 'All Around the World' featuring Ludacris! It means so much to me!" Another said, "Justin Bieber gives us the eternal cry of youth, his music will be remembered for years to come". Let us celebrate.

Yeah but at the end of the day she's put Trish Stratus matches and HHH vs Shelton Benjamin over Clash 6; so you know. If the new paradigm is to celebrate that, it's a paradigm that is ultimately wanting.

List kinda sucks Jimmy. At times, an open troll on standards of decency and good taste.

The women's division an be a real success, but it remains the case that the only way feminism will ever get over in the world of wrestling is as a heel act, especially with the current asshole crowds.

I think I reviewed that here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/33155-bob-orton-jr/?p=5724327

It is one of the most historic achievements in sport, period. The sort of thing we didn't think was possible any more.

It is clear to me that there can be only one name for such a sub-forum ... "Political hit"

I'm familar with Big KRIT. And also a lot of the guys who have carried the torch for "depth" in hip-hop over the years. Common, for example. But the form has some in-built limitations, I think. Yes, depth is possible, but I don't think it can get to certain places easily. Do you think a Big KRIT record holds up to the best stuff from Stevie Wonder, Curtis Mayfield, Sly and the Family Stone, etc? Even within the purview of "black experience", there might be artists who do it better. Hip-hop excels in other areas, political aggression or social comment, for example. There are places it can and cannot go: it has limitations as a form. Let's not go too far off topic though. I think the point is made.

I don't really want to make analogies across to specific guys. I could probably live with a GZA = Volk Han analogy. Something like that.

I'm a huge hip-hop aficinado as some of you know, and I could see an argument where the #1 rap guy doesn't make the overall 100. Like, say GZA from Wu-Tang would make my top 5 hip-hop artists list easily, but I don't know if he makes my top 100 artists overall list. Cos I'm just not sure if hip-hop has the real depth or emotional maturity of some other forms of music. I would also say that I'm not sure if there's anyone here who has a deeper respect or understanding for hip-hop than I do on this board -- it's possible, but I've got to be up there. I don't want to make equivalences across to wrestling, becuase I am done talking about specific wrestlers, but I think it's possible to side-line entire styles, even ones you love and value, and be fine with it.