Ricky Jackson

I was hoping it would turn out to be Backlund.

All I can say about Ladd's commentary is that during the Tito/Savage No DQ match from MSG he came off worse than many clueless celebrities doing commentary and was barely less horrible than Art Donovan.

I saw it in the theatre back in 89. That was enough.

I watched two of the Shawn vs Marty matches from 1993 Raw last night (5/17 and 7/19*), and maybe it's because I'm now consciously looking for flaws in Shawn's work due to this damn thread , but Marty sure came off as the more dynamic and technically competent of the two. This was during Shawn's bloated, sluggish-looking phase though. *BTW, which of these matches was PWI match of the year? Most places say 5/17 (Marty wins IC strap), but Cawthon's site says 7/19. It's been bugging the shit out of me that I can't find a definitive answer (I threw out my 1993 PWI awards issue years ago).

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x648yr_sh...ladder-ma_sport Haven't watched this (just looked it up based on your question) but apparently it's from a show at Exhibition Stadium, site of the Big Event in 86.

That's actually a pretty good idea for an angle. If I was booking, just for perverse joy I would have Davey put over David Arquette after Russo interference in front of a smark-filled Philly or NYC crowd.

We do have a Tito thread, remember? http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=15282 ohtani's jacket even reviewed a bunch of Tito's matches. That always bugged me. It made Tito look like a jilted lover who couldn't get over the fact that he had been dumped and was unable to move on.

Saturday: Stampede Wrestling on Channel 2&7 Host: Ed Whalen

That's actually as good an argument for Shawn being a great worker as any (Foley too). Two guys getting together for the first time and creating beautiful music. Also, and I'm probably forgetting something obvious, but did they ever wrestle each other again?

The Japanese footage from the 70s is pretty good quality. Footage from the 50s is relatively abundant, probably because wrestling was fairly popular on a mainstream level for a few years and on network TV until around 55 or so. Wrestling in NA in the 60s was of course territorial and off network TV and thus more scarce. Same with the 70s. Like Al said, sports footage in general from the 70s is nothing special, and an MSG show from the 70s is roughly the same quality as a 70s World Series or Super Bowl, etc.

Well, we all knew it was only a matter of time before they did a Rate the WWE Babes poll:

I just hope this wasn't a conscious "tribute" by those involved (or they thought they were being "edgy" or something stupid) on the anniversary of the tragedy.

I really wasn't trying to suggest that Vince and the modern WWE monolith have the amazing power to brainwash fans, and we at PWO are running some kind of underground resistance effort to save wrestling. But yeah, "youth is wasted on the young". I look back on who I thought were great wrestlers when I was in my early-20s and cringe sometimes. Shawn actually holds up a whole lot better than most (*cough* RVD *cough*). And I liked "I'm sorry, I love you".

The fact that Shawn was the one who got the serious main event push by Vince probably automatically puts him ahead of guys like Hennig, Martel, Garvin and several others in the eyes of many fans. The WWE has also created quite a myth around Shawn with "Mr. Wrestlemania" and all the nicknames, the Mania X ladder match, the first HIAC, 20 + years of service, etc. And while I have nothing to back this up, I think a lot of the "Shawn is #1" talk is a generational thing. Of the wrestling fans I know under 30, and who didn't start watching until well into the 90s, often anything pre-94 or so is considered the dark ages and unwatchable. A lot of them see Hogan as the antithesis of everything they like about wrestling (can't do moovz and was responsible for holding back guys like Benoit and Jericho in WCW), can't get into Flair or Lawler or even conceive that either was ever a great worker (especially Lawler), in fact, most of the guys we constantly praise on this board mean nothing to them. Shawn usually rates pretty high with these guys, although a lot of fans in Canada to this day still hate him solely for his role in the screwjob.

And what exactly is "French technology"? Minitel. (sorry, only French people could understand this one, but I garantee you it's funny.) That Canada joke is indeed quite funny by the way. Never heard it before, but it's a nice one.

My appreciation for Shawn probably peaked around 94 or so. Loved the Rockers. Loved the initial heel run. Probably my second favorite wrestler at that point (next to Bret). Soured on him in 96, as he replaced my hero and became a lame, forced babyface. Always liked him more as a heel (as a singles wrestler anyway). Missed most of his early-comeback during a stretch where I was off wrestling, but enjoyed his last few years, especially 07-09. I would still put him in my top 20, but he's slipping more and more with each passing year.

American culture, yes, but we definitely don't have British cuisine, unless you go out of your way to seek it out (and who the fuck would do that? ) . And what exactly is "French technology"?

As far as I know TV issues were a major reason for both eventually tanking and going out of business. LA lost its English language TV around 75/76 because of complaints to the FCC that their show was basically a 1 hour commercial for the house shows (which it was, but so were all territory era wrestling shows). This left the territory with only Spanish TV and an increasingly Spanish-only audience, which I guess hurt the business to a degree, but it seems like years and years of subsequent poor booking and a lack of star power are what really killed the area dead. The famous low point was when they basically booked the Frankenstein monster as a top heel around 1982 or so. San Fran lost their TV around 1979, I think because notoriously difficult promoter Roy Shire finally pissed off the wrong people one too many times. Shire continued to book the Cow Palace afterwards (the main arena in the territory), relying on other promoters to supply him talent. A deal with Don Owen fell apart (Buddy Rose cut a shoot promo on Shire at a Cow Palace show calling him out for being a liar and con man) which forced Shire to rely on the mediocre at best KC territory for talent, which proved disastrous, and a switch to Florida and Rhodes was too late to stave off the end. The territory was dead by 1981. This is just based on what I've read here and there over the years, a lot from Meltzer, so anybody with better info feel free to chime in.

I've only got a top ten in me tonight: 1. Hart 2. Savage 3. Flair 4. Backlund 5. Michaels 6. Cena 7. Hogan 8. Austin 9. Sammartino 10. Slaughter

Yeah, makes you wonder how many MSG cards were filmed by outside sources at the time. The comments on the video suggest Wolf showed MSG highlights often, so maybe there are a few more gems out there somewhere waiting to be discovered.

Just watched the Hogan vs Bossman 89 cage match from MSG a few nights ago and I thought Tony was pretty good here (as was Lord Al surprisingly enough), and I usually find him out of place in a WWF setting. For me, the downfall of Tony, and WCW announcing in general, was when endless discussion of the NWO infected every undercard match on Nitro and PPV to the point where it was beyond overkill.

Took me a while to find it again ("hulk hogan vs gorilla monsoon msg" finally did the trick) but here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2_N9Q36hNc

Going over the results on Cawthon's site, the MSG card with the Backlund vs Adonis rematch (2/15/82--a Texas Death Match with Putski as ref) really stands out as one of the most potentially interesting "lost" MSG shows, as there was also a Valentine vs Morales "Brass Knuckles Alley Fight" on the card I'd really love to see. What's the deal with the MSG shows, like this one, that weren't televised at the time? Were they still filmed? Are there examples of untelevised MSG cards showing up in trading circles? One example I can think of is the 6/16/80 card (Backlund vs Zbyszko, Hogan vs Monsoon), which wasn't televised but was filmed, as clips were shown with the sports highlights on a local TV station, and a video of that is on YouTube.

I've been a bit out of the loop---is Flair's return to WWE imminent? Also, looking ahead to MITB, who gets elevated this year? Off the top of my head it doesn't seem like they've been grooming anybody new recently. I could see Cena being in the Raw match, since I don't think he's ever been in a MITB before. Wouldn't be surprised if he won too. Edit: I guess Tensai is a good candidate. Maybe Clay?