Ricky Jackson

Haven't seen the show yet, haven't read any spoilers, haven't read anything in this thread--someone tell me, was it a memorable show and a must-see? That's all I want to know.

Great match. One of the classic "match/angle" productions, ala Savage/Warrior and Hart/Doink/Lawler from Summerslam 93, which the WWF really excelled at back then. Holds up real well. Out of curiousity, I checked Meltzer's rating for the match. He gave it a ridiculously low **, lower than the Yoko-Taker and Team Luger vs Corporation tag from the same card (both **1/2). I know he's never been much of a Backlund fan, but he was sometimes such a joyless wrestling snob back in those days.

I'm just guessing, but maybe at this Greensboro show Flair and Valentine had a falling out after losing the match, with Valentine blaming Flair for the loss or some such thing, leading to the match next month. Maybe it was just a localized match/angle to add another big match to the card. Edit: Also, that Slaughter/Kernodle vs Funk bros match sounds quite interesting.

X, I really don't remember calling you out on Cena before. Anyway, what exactly is wrong with the way they've booked Cena's character? And please don't say its because he has been booked as invincible, because he hasn't. Not like the top WWF/E champs of the past anyway. Sure I like Cena. He's probably the best WWE wrestler of the last ten years. Yeah, I guess I've settled for mediocrity. Welcome to the 21st century. And the "reality era" tag was created by that masked man dude at Grantland. It's not something anyone in WWE creative has spent one second thinking about.

Gotta disagree with a few things, X: Cena's first reign didn't end because of fan backlash, it was done to get over the MITB concept and elevate Edge. Cena won the title back a few weeks later. And RVD winning the belt was done in order to help get over the new ECW. Not really true. Sammartino's second reign ended with him getting pinned while Graham had his feet on the ropes "for leverage". Hart lost to Yoko after getting salt in the eyes, to Backlund in a match where he "didn't quit" (Owen conned his mom to throw in the towel), to Sid after Austin interference, and of course the screwjob to Shawn. The Rock lost to Foley on Raw after Austin interference, and I can't really remember the other losses because of the blur of the Attitude era, but I'm sure there were a few other dirty title switches in there. Really, the problem isn't clean finishes to title matches, because even back in the good ol' days, there were a lot of "tainted" wins, even by babyfaces. Besides the ones already mentioned there was also Backlund in 78, Savage in 88, Hogan against Taker in 91, and Savage held Flair's tights in 92. Cena's a babyface, so of course he's going to be screwed over by the evil heel or lose in a controversial manner when he drops the belt. That's how Bruno lost to Graham, Backlund to Sheik, Hogan to Andre, Warrior to Slaughter, Hogan to Taker, etc., etc., etc. Personally, I think you're a Cena hater, and that's fine. But you can't really blame him for devaluing the belt or like it was up to him to decide the manner in which he lost.

Here's the link to the first chapter (of 20+) of the "Road to Greensboro" saga. Some really good stuff here; it's easy to see why this feud was so hot at the time. Edit: I take it the Flair/Valentine Broadway from the Final Conflict show didn't make tape? Too bad. Double Edit: Slaughter timeline: 1980-81: First WWF run--matches with Backlund, famous feud with Patterson 1981-83: JCP--last date Cawthon has for Slaughter in Carolinas is May 15, 1983, although he continued to work Toronto shows until Jan 1984 and wrestled Steamboat on 1/8/84 in Charlotte in what was billed as Steamboat's retirement match (?) 1983-84: Second WWF run--First date March 30, 1983, so there was a bit of overlap with WWF and JCP. Feud with Sheik in 84 Joined AWA/Pro Wrestling USA in late 84. I don't think he worked for AWA during the 80-84 period, other than as Super Destroyer II in 1980, but I could be wrong.

Maybe looking back in retrospect and with nostalgia Tunney seems good in the role, but I know at the time he was pretty much considered a joke by wrestling fans. He was one of the favorite whipping boys of the Apter mags, and not just in a kayfabe way. I'm sure Meltzer and the smart fans of the era tore him to shreads for his wooden, awkward presence.

I was hoping it would turn out to be Backlund.

All I can say about Ladd's commentary is that during the Tito/Savage No DQ match from MSG he came off worse than many clueless celebrities doing commentary and was barely less horrible than Art Donovan.

I saw it in the theatre back in 89. That was enough.

I watched two of the Shawn vs Marty matches from 1993 Raw last night (5/17 and 7/19*), and maybe it's because I'm now consciously looking for flaws in Shawn's work due to this damn thread , but Marty sure came off as the more dynamic and technically competent of the two. This was during Shawn's bloated, sluggish-looking phase though. *BTW, which of these matches was PWI match of the year? Most places say 5/17 (Marty wins IC strap), but Cawthon's site says 7/19. It's been bugging the shit out of me that I can't find a definitive answer (I threw out my 1993 PWI awards issue years ago).

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x648yr_sh...ladder-ma_sport Haven't watched this (just looked it up based on your question) but apparently it's from a show at Exhibition Stadium, site of the Big Event in 86.

That's actually a pretty good idea for an angle. If I was booking, just for perverse joy I would have Davey put over David Arquette after Russo interference in front of a smark-filled Philly or NYC crowd.

We do have a Tito thread, remember? http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=15282 ohtani's jacket even reviewed a bunch of Tito's matches. That always bugged me. It made Tito look like a jilted lover who couldn't get over the fact that he had been dumped and was unable to move on.

Saturday: Stampede Wrestling on Channel 2&7 Host: Ed Whalen

That's actually as good an argument for Shawn being a great worker as any (Foley too). Two guys getting together for the first time and creating beautiful music. Also, and I'm probably forgetting something obvious, but did they ever wrestle each other again?

The Japanese footage from the 70s is pretty good quality. Footage from the 50s is relatively abundant, probably because wrestling was fairly popular on a mainstream level for a few years and on network TV until around 55 or so. Wrestling in NA in the 60s was of course territorial and off network TV and thus more scarce. Same with the 70s. Like Al said, sports footage in general from the 70s is nothing special, and an MSG show from the 70s is roughly the same quality as a 70s World Series or Super Bowl, etc.

Well, we all knew it was only a matter of time before they did a Rate the WWE Babes poll:

I just hope this wasn't a conscious "tribute" by those involved (or they thought they were being "edgy" or something stupid) on the anniversary of the tragedy.

I really wasn't trying to suggest that Vince and the modern WWE monolith have the amazing power to brainwash fans, and we at PWO are running some kind of underground resistance effort to save wrestling. But yeah, "youth is wasted on the young". I look back on who I thought were great wrestlers when I was in my early-20s and cringe sometimes. Shawn actually holds up a whole lot better than most (*cough* RVD *cough*). And I liked "I'm sorry, I love you".

The fact that Shawn was the one who got the serious main event push by Vince probably automatically puts him ahead of guys like Hennig, Martel, Garvin and several others in the eyes of many fans. The WWE has also created quite a myth around Shawn with "Mr. Wrestlemania" and all the nicknames, the Mania X ladder match, the first HIAC, 20 + years of service, etc. And while I have nothing to back this up, I think a lot of the "Shawn is #1" talk is a generational thing. Of the wrestling fans I know under 30, and who didn't start watching until well into the 90s, often anything pre-94 or so is considered the dark ages and unwatchable. A lot of them see Hogan as the antithesis of everything they like about wrestling (can't do moovz and was responsible for holding back guys like Benoit and Jericho in WCW), can't get into Flair or Lawler or even conceive that either was ever a great worker (especially Lawler), in fact, most of the guys we constantly praise on this board mean nothing to them. Shawn usually rates pretty high with these guys, although a lot of fans in Canada to this day still hate him solely for his role in the screwjob.

And what exactly is "French technology"? Minitel. (sorry, only French people could understand this one, but I garantee you it's funny.) That Canada joke is indeed quite funny by the way. Never heard it before, but it's a nice one.

My appreciation for Shawn probably peaked around 94 or so. Loved the Rockers. Loved the initial heel run. Probably my second favorite wrestler at that point (next to Bret). Soured on him in 96, as he replaced my hero and became a lame, forced babyface. Always liked him more as a heel (as a singles wrestler anyway). Missed most of his early-comeback during a stretch where I was off wrestling, but enjoyed his last few years, especially 07-09. I would still put him in my top 20, but he's slipping more and more with each passing year.

American culture, yes, but we definitely don't have British cuisine, unless you go out of your way to seek it out (and who the fuck would do that? ) . And what exactly is "French technology"?

As far as I know TV issues were a major reason for both eventually tanking and going out of business. LA lost its English language TV around 75/76 because of complaints to the FCC that their show was basically a 1 hour commercial for the house shows (which it was, but so were all territory era wrestling shows). This left the territory with only Spanish TV and an increasingly Spanish-only audience, which I guess hurt the business to a degree, but it seems like years and years of subsequent poor booking and a lack of star power are what really killed the area dead. The famous low point was when they basically booked the Frankenstein monster as a top heel around 1982 or so. San Fran lost their TV around 1979, I think because notoriously difficult promoter Roy Shire finally pissed off the wrong people one too many times. Shire continued to book the Cow Palace afterwards (the main arena in the territory), relying on other promoters to supply him talent. A deal with Don Owen fell apart (Buddy Rose cut a shoot promo on Shire at a Cow Palace show calling him out for being a liar and con man) which forced Shire to rely on the mediocre at best KC territory for talent, which proved disastrous, and a switch to Florida and Rhodes was too late to stave off the end. The territory was dead by 1981. This is just based on what I've read here and there over the years, a lot from Meltzer, so anybody with better info feel free to chime in.