Yo-Yo's Roomie

Canadian Stampede 10-man.

I just watched a Vader/Payne match which was decent, but seemed set up more to give Vader a dominant win (I think it was coming off the back of the defeat to Sting in the International title match). Payne got a standard vertical suplex, but not much more. I was disappointed he didn't get a chance to throw him around a little.

I hate signature moves that always require the guy on the end of it to feed into it by missing a move, ie. everyone has to miss a haymaker to lead to Cena's protobomb, everyone misses a clothesline leading to Orton's "scoop slam". It's lazy, and you'd think guys would get bored of always being fed the same way.

Thanks for those, mookie. I wouldn't mind seeing a Payne/Backlund match. As an aside, how irritating is that 'DUD' rating?

Good match, but not as good as Spring Stampede. I thought it went on too long, and started to get montonous byt he end. Plus, I didn't care at all for the finish. Loved the revenge spots in the post-match though.

I just watched the BATB Flair match and, while I enjoyed it a fair bit, it struck me more as a masterpiece in Hogan establishing himself as better than Flair in every way than a truly great match. In the Bock/Hogan matches I've seen, I always felt that Bock gave way too much to Hogan. He just looked like some lucky jobber in there most of the time.

This is a lot of fun, and a masterclass in how to work this kind of match. I honestly think this might be the best Jake WWF match I've seen, and probably the best heel Martel work I've seen too. Martel really embraces his role.

I ended up finding a Man Mountain Rock vs Jean-Pierre Lafitte match, which I was kinda excited about, because I love PCO, and thought this had the potential to be a good hard-hitting bout. It was about 4 minutes, and they didn't really do much in it. Payne got PCO over for a belly to belly towards the end, which was pretty impressive, and then the Cannonball always looks cool and painful. Otherwise, it was pretty plodding. I still maintain an 8-10 minute brawl between these two (preferably with Payne rather than MMR) could have been really good. I know that's not really setting the bar very high, but it isn't like I'm trying to sell Payne as some great worker. I'm fantasy booking JPL stealing Norma Jean now to kick off the feud. I will say that MMR was pretty over, with a loud "Rock and Roll" chant. Unless they just dubbed audio in from an old Rock n Roll Express match.

Wrestlewar Chi-Town Clash

Inoki/Fujinami/Ueda/Hoshino/Kimura Vs Maeda/Takada/Fujiwara/Yamazaki/Kido (3/26/86)

I personally think he sucks, but believe he could have been a big, big star if they'd have run with him when he was really hot in 2001/2002. He was a different version of the anti-authority babyface, which by that time had become a pre-requisite for top faces in WWE. My favourite match of his is probably the Summerslam 02 match with Benoit, where Benoit just picks him apart. I suppose that goes along with the 'better on defence' consensus that seems to be forming here.

Going through the big WCW shows, I was interested by the character of Maxx Payne. A guy I knew little about, and only remembered from this run, and then showing up in WWF as Man Mountain Rock. I don't know that he's deserving of his own thread, but I would like to hear some opinions on him, and find out if anyone else was entertained by him at all. I think the Maxx Payne gimmick was really good, though I'm not sure exactly what it was. Was it an attempt to cash in on the popularity of grunge, or was he more of an 80s metal guy? What was the idea behind billing him from 'the state of euphoria' (which I thought was really cool)- how did that play into the gimmick? As a heel, I thought he was quite plodding in the ring, but I did think he had an air of genuine menace about him. I bought him as a slightly unhinged guy, and thought he had an interesting look. I also remember as a kid thinking that the Payne Killer was about the most dangerous move I'd ever seen. Just the size of him and the way he wrenched back on the arm, I thought there was no possible way that he wasn't breaking dudes' arms left and right. Would the 'Badd Blaster to the face' angle be about the highlight of his heel run? I was really surprised by his work as a face. The Chicago Street Fight is a match that gets talked about quite a bit, and is definitely a fun stiff-fest, but I prefer the Cactus/Payne V Nastys match from SuperBrawl, when Payne starts the match by just killing both Nastys with some vicious-looking throws. And then I thought he had legit killed Knobbs with that brutal suplex leading to the finish. I haven't seen a single Man Mountain Rock match (I only remember his album reviews from the WWF magazine). Is there anything at all from that run even remotely worth checking out? What about from the rest of his career? I know he worked Europe some, which sounds promising. Did any of his Lawler matches make tape? So, Maxx Payne- wrestling all-American, putter-up of Wrestlemania 2 steel cage, NJ dojo trainee, an interesting drop in wrestling's vast ocean.

This is my favourite thread on the board. Enjoying reading your thoughts, El-P.

I've really becoming a big Martel fan in the past couple of years, after watching some of his Portland stuff, and revisiting his WWF work. I only knew him as 'the Model' before that, and I have to agree with Matt that he is a much better babyface than he is a heel. In fact, I was really disappointed with his heel stuff, and didn't think he did anything interesting in that role at all (although he did work shtick wonderfully in the blindfold match with Jake). Great tag worker, very explosive off the hot tag. Sometimes felt he went a bit too 'big' with his selling. I really like his tag team with Roddy Piper- loved the way they'd out-heel the heels.

I have to say, though I hate Santino and don't find him funny at all, my wrestling-hating wife calls him her favourite, just because he's "funny and silly". Take that for whatever it's worth.

Lesnar should never be a face. Henry needs to go on another tear as a heel, but I'd definitely like to see him have another face run.

Henry should pull double duty at 'Mania. Beat Del Rio for the world title, and then end the streak.

The first five minutes of this is one of the greatest five minute periods in wrestling history. The hatred coming from Pillman is palpable. Pillman gives the performance of a lifetime here.

Here? Trips would get murdered. Most other places he'd certainly beat Luger, and probably Sting too. Most internet folk seem to have bought into the hype about Hunter as a worker. There was a thread on classics comparing Sting to Hunter, and I think the majority there thought Hunter was the better worker.

I've just finished 1993, Regal's first year in the company, in my WCW ppv/Clash-watching, and already, though I'm admittedly biased as he is my second favourite wrestler, I think Regal is one of the best guys on the roster from an all-round perspective. A lot of it is presentation- the gimmick is great, the music is great, Sir William is great, I like that he's billed from the Tower of Blackpool (they should have kept the Royal Forest of Dean part too, though) and that his weight is in stones. Obviously, that stuff is less Regal being great, and WCW actually doing a great job in making someone seem different and interesting and like a big deal. In the ring, I'm really waiting for him to put it all together (again, just watching ppvs and Clashes, so not getting a full picture). He has sequences that are really good (some nifty mat stuff, a sudden turn of aggression), his facials/mannerisms are great (I love how, after a flurry of offence from his opponent, he'll back off in a daze, but still have his hand behind his back in his aristocratic manner), and his style makes him stand out from the pack, but often, especially in matches which are going the time limit, there are lulls in his work, and the tempo is altogether a bit off. I was especially disappointed in the two Steamboat matches, but I thought Steamer was pretty culpable in those too. The Bulldog draw suffered similarly. The matches seem to start with some entertaining mat stuff, then have a middle portion which feels a bit too much like killing time, before picking up for a fun closing couple of minutes. This turned into a more critical post than I wanted it to be. The Badd match from Clash 25 is probably his best of the year, because Badd brings a faster pace and sense of urgency that Regal can play off. Another standout moment from the year is him and Orndorff doing some respectful chain wrestling at Battlebowl, while their partners Steamboat and Shockmaster look on in disgust. Regal is a guy who always remembers who he is in a match, which I think is a really good quality to have. Now I'm just waffling. I'll add more observations on Regal as I go on with my WCW viewing, and maybe post some match reviews too.

I think it was a bit of both. This was the match that is at the root of Steiner's dislike for Flair, right? Because he felt that Flair went out of his way to make him look bad, or at least, not really put him over the way he did other guys? I can see that, whether that's Flair having an off-night, no longer being up to the task (which is highly doubtful), or just not wanting to give Steiner the same treatment he gave to Sting, Luger and others. On the other hand, Steiner really didn't help himself here. He just didn't carry himself like a star, and seemed a little overwhelmed by the situation, to me.

The Steiners were my favourite tag team as a kid, but going through the WCW stuff now, I kinda hate them. I mean, there's always that little bit of childish sentiment that I'll likely never shake, but they would often come across as such dicks in matches, to the point that I enjoyed the series with Doc/Gordy solely for the fact that Doc/Gordy eat them alive and give them so little. I've noticed a lot of moments in their matches where Rick, in particular, seems to hold his opponent's offence in such contempt, at times even smiling at it. I know he's supposed to be this crazy, mentally-unhinged guy, but I always detect a hint of "you expect me to sell that weak shit" attitude. Him laughing at Petty's missed dive at Starrcade 90 stands out in a similar way. I liked Rick more as the lovable lug pre-Scotty's arrival, and would rather watch the First Family than the Steiner brothers. That said, the brothers did have some fun spotfests, and I really like their Mania 9 match with the Headshrinkers, just because it seems to be structured better than their usual match, with Scotty taking a good beating as fip.

So, why am I the only person to even mention Austin? Too short of a peak/career in general? Relied too much on brawling around ringside post-broken neck? Just not at that level? How far down the list is he?

Bock, Flair, Terry Funk, Hansen, Murdoch, Rose, Windham, Eaton, Austin, Savage.

What would a top 10 Rotundo matches list look like? I know I enjoyed a lot of the Rotundo/Williams tags, but I can't remember to what extent, and which ones stood out as the best. The matches with Steiner were pretty good too, if memory serves. My favourite Rotundo match, off the top of my head, is the Money Inc/Doink Vs Steiners/Tatanka match.