WingedEagle

What 88-89 (or earlier, if available) Dandy do I need to watch? Hoping to do that this afternoon before heading out for the evening.

I think the Flair/Jumbo draw is not only one of the finest performances for both Ric Flair and Jumbo Tsuruta, but legitimately one of the greatest matches of all time. Jumbo is definitely part of a few tags I'd rank higher, and I know this sounds like hyperbole, but I could make a case for it over the '89 Tenryu match as his GOAT singles match.

Tough to argue you're anti-AJPW there. I'm just of the mindset that that crew is responsible for the best wrestling ever and ranked them accordingly, even if irrationally so. One thing I love about these podcasts is hearing the case for wrestlers I haven't seen enough of as it gives me some references for things to eventually watch. But you know its a good show when it makes me want to go back and watch the names I *am* familiar with and comfortably didn't rank, and that is the case here.

Dylan's #27 was a huge Superkick through the Barbershop window. Starting Part 2 tomorrow.

Lesnar benefits from several things:1)WWE 2)recency bias 3)uniqueness I didn't rank him. The long term damage of having him work versus Angle is showing now. He makes people feel something in an age where it's hard for people to feel anything. He feels special in a world where nothing else does. That says a hell of a lot more about the world than it does about him. He certainly didn't make my list. I think that's way off base. Lesnar was very different and had a completely unique presence and aura about him from day one. Renewed, yet different, upon returning in '12 after his UFC stint, but attributing that to the current environment disregards what a freak he was on the first go round. Absolutely never felt like one of the pack, even when they tried to make that happen through booking.

Love that they did it at a house show. Hoping Balor shows up at Payback or Raw the next night.

Come on, accessibility is more than having an internet connection. Let's not be that simplistic.

At least radio on the drive home tonight was FANTASTIC.

Really great point by Dylan about why he ranked Tamura over Han. Hadn't quite been able to pin down just why I preferred Tamura but he absolutely nailed it. Couldn't have said it better.

Accessibility is key. People have to dig pretty far beyond even the highly touted material from another country to get to Tamura.

No, the Steiner-HHH match that preceded Angle-Benoit RR03 was a horrible match. I love the Benoit-Angle match. One of my all-time faves. I didn't post that list to try and convince people who hate Angle to change their mind. I posted it to answer the call from those who seem to think those of us who like him are pulling his career out of thin air. You don't have to agree that they're good matches. I'm not trying to change your minds. I'm just trying to get some acknowledgement that even though we may have a different take on the guy mine isn't built out of nothing. Exactly. I completely see what the issues with him are and understand why he may not rank for people because of them, but would think even his biggest detractors can acknowledge it may not have been an issue every single time he stepped into the ring. Mileage will vary based on your preferences, but his flaws are not such that they render him trash. Too many things he did well, even and especially on nights when his limitations got the best of them. Almost the antithesis of a worker prone to laziness. He couldn't help but offer something interesting even in a trainwreck scenario.

I also have a fair bit of Brisco coming my way soon enough. Very, very much looking forward to a deep dive there. Like irrationally excited to jump into that.

It means absolutely nothing, but I love seeing a dude named Moonsault Mavin comment on Jack Brisco. Just a great visual.

How do you view his TNA work? To me he really dragged down talented guys like Nigel, Styles, and even Joe into the sewer with him, but as someone who may be a fan of some of the stuff I dislike, I'm curious to know how you look at the last ten years of his career. I haven't watched most of it since near when it originally aired, but am actually in the process of rewatching a lot of TNA (among the endless list of viewing projects) and just about up to his debut, and am looking forward to seeing where I stand on it today. With that caveat, I thought he had a lot of hits and misses. Hits were when he really gelled with someone, such as the Joe matches at Genesis '06 and Lockdown '08, but not so much the first rematch. Similarly, I thought he had some really excellent work with Styles, Jarrett and far from stinkers with the likes of Sting, Abyss and Matt Morgan, relative to their talents. Then there are the misses. The iron man match with Joe. The other times with even excellent workers like Styles or Christian where enough just wasn't enough and he left a lot of scorched earth in his tracks. Interestingly, I think he didn't mix well at all with Christian, who was determined to work a more traditional style with selling and building a match. Angle's best output, for my money, came when he was in with someone willing and capable of pushing him at his pace, in his comfort zone. I'm just about finished with Bob Backlund's autobiography and throughout it he talks about being very cognizant of building the crowd to a peak and then going home at that point. Angle is someone who often looked to get to that peak right away. And then keep going. On the right night, with the right opponent, it could be paced a bit better and perhaps not overcook things too much. That definitely happened with Nigel, though I think I really liked at least one of their matches, but can't recall which one. So all those misses? The iron man, the video game TV match with AJ and its various iterations over the years? They're just not actively horrible for me. There's too much exciting offense out there for it to be trash. I can find something redeeming in that kind of match where the execution, effort, movement and action all offer something. It may not amount to a great match, and I may be throwing up my hands asking what in hell is going on at some point. But I will not be bored, and there will be great moments, whether a long teased moonsault, some highlight reel suplexes or big near fall sequence. He's that friend who sometimes drinks too much and you need to send him home in cab. But you always want that guy at the bar because its never dull. What's all that worth? I ranked him 61.

I completely understand the criticisms of Angle, but the guy still impresses me more times than not. Yeah, he does too much and for the most part has one gear. But man he just does so much with it. At the end of the day I'd rather go to bed overstuffed and perhaps a little sick than starving.

Incredibly sad, both the news and that it is unsurprising. Thoughts and prayers to her family and loved ones.

Easy to find. Years of weekly TV matches + the Network. Hase required a whole lot more effort, but yes, his style and act should immediately translate even to fans unfamiliar with the Japanese product.

Jericho's work is more easily accessible. That counts.

Clickbait and nonsense.

Very much this. Zayn has looked awfully mediocre on the main roster. I haven't been of Jericho's work with Styles, but didn't expect a ton out of it based on what Jericho has done of late. The Zayn match was a much bigger disappointment, which seems to be something that comes to mind with a lot of his matches lately.

Very strongly believe that "Hogan was awful" is as accurate as "Hogan was an all-time worker." Charisma, crowd pops and moments galore. Also one of the few names where it is probably impossible for most fans to look at him objectively, if that's even a goal. If you grew up watching WWF TV he holds a permanent place in your wrestling memories and development as a fan. On the other hand, Hogan as a top 10 all timer is some real stay away from drugs talk.

Strongly agree on all except Hase. While there seems to be a debate about his post-NJ work, have people soured on him due to the 80s NJPW set or from the yearbooks? A question about his peaks and top performances may meet some varied response, but I never got the sense that his rep has taken any kind of a hit from greater exposure.

Definitely a really good match. Pretty favorable reviews in the MDA as well, but for some reason not one that's often brought up on Hogan's greatest hits list.

Have no idea, but on a related basis I always wondered how strong a recency bias enters into voting. Fujinami & Martel were the two big names I hadn't seen a ton of coming into this, and on the flip side they both rated incredibly highly for me. Did they belong there, or was I blown away by their material being not just great, but also fresh? I have no idea but definitely thought about that sort of thing.

I am completely at a loss as to how you can say that we (if you're still referring to either me or Steve) have said it's incorrect to call him a murderer. I think I've even called him a "fucking murderer" to stress the point. To me cold-blooded implies conscious thought and a lack of emapthy and clear frame of mind. I thought it was pretty well established that there were other factors also at play with Benoit. If there wasn't then I'm just not well enough informed on the matter. But if there is, then it's factually wrong to just call him cold-blooded. It's totally understandable, but probably not quite correct. And I strongly believe that we need to take that seriously in order to understand and prevent. I totally get the need to just push it aside and only say "murderer" when thinking of Benoit. I think it's natural, but I think it's a bad idea. "What's wrong with leaving it at Chris Benoit killed his fucking family. Brain trauma is serious. We should treat it seriously. The end." Nothing wrong with that on a wrestling thread. At all. People opened this thread up to being about more than wrestling, and if that's the case, I'd have to remove the full stops in your comment to directly connect the brain trauma with his actions. I hear and respect you not wanting to do that. I'd have preffered it if you could also respect my point of view that it's important not to disconnect the two if we're ever to prevent it. But I honestly think nothing less of you for not wanting to. That's fine. We just can't get any further debating with each other about it then. I really think we should leave it at that, as you say. I truly look forward to engaging with you on much more enjoyable subjects, wrestling related or otherwise. Amen, brotha.