WingedEagle

JESUS CHRIST! Fucking awesome, LOL I can't wait to blast through 00s Kobashi! Amazing.So fucking stupid, but AMAZING. Haha cannot wait for you to plow through that.

Sano's fall is probably due in part to the multiple names, the effort required to seek him out (particularly the shoot stuff) and the lack of a prominent run in a major company recently. I really think that if Naoki Sano had followed the NJ juniors run with more work as "Naoki Sano" in pro-style feds he'd likely be looked upon more, if not more fondly. Taker? Higher highs but lots more lows than Triple H and less of a stink for marrying someone on the roster who wasn't in the C suite. But certainly no more deserving.

This was exactly what I was talking about. Perhaps not always the strongest or loudest, but always great audio on his and absolutely no one was better at *using* the chop rather than just throwing it out there for the sake of it.

Believe it or not, I'd want to bring Lex Luger into this conversation. His just looks so damn perfect. Sexy Lexy. Sexy indeed! Not quite as violent as the big guns, but he had great form and usually worked up a hell of a running start. Nice sleeper.

Absolutely love a great chop and even morseso when it's smartly incorporated into a match. Flair probably wins it for me, but also a big fan of Joe and Kobashi on this list. Ron agar in another great one. Not a fan of when it's thrown after a huge setup with tons of lag time like WWE often falls prey to. Don't see how that's any different than the floppy junior spots that are criticized for being too contrived. Not quite related, but in the same hemisphere enough that it feels relevant is the best lariat. Always defaulted to Hansen here but after going back over some prime work from both I think Jumbo actually takes the lariat crown.

WTF? Andre is freaking awesome and totally belongs. How can you make an argument for Triple H over Andre? Pretty easily if one wants to. Andre has a few amazing matches. He also has a ton where he not only encourages the viewer to sleep but in fact does so himself. Not sure I'd necessarily rank Triple H above him, but he absolutely has many more matches I'd rate higher and would prefer to rewatch. Different strokes and such.

Zayn's very much of the moment. More of a spotlight on him than any point in his career which can't hurt.

Exactly. I think people mistake what I'm talking about when I say "objectivity", it has nothing to do with my list or with BIGLAV or anything like that, it has to do with pointing at evidence, whether input or output, a guy's career, what actually happened etc. etc. Objectively, Kenta Kobashi had more matches period than Magnum TA. This is a fact. Magnum TA's career was short. These are tangible, measurable things. Who had more "great matches" is a subjective value judgement, but most people who have seen a good chunk of both careers, would say Kobashi had more of them than Magnum. Again, this sort of thing is in the realm of objectivity. I have a hard time thinking about the argument that takes that evidence about both bodies of work and comes out with Magnum TA as the #1 worker. To me that goes against the grain of what is there. I really hate this part. Wrestler A has more great matches than Wrestler B. Does know automatically come to the conclusion that Wrestler A > Wrestler B. Yes Kobashi is better than Magnum, however there is more to being a worker than the end quality of a match. When does match quality matter? When does it not?

JVK's been consistent on this from day one. His system was an objective ranking of subjective evaluations and his best attempt at truly ranking greatness. Point your guns if you must, but this seems to be what accounts for many of the rankings that are at issue, yet defensible as long as someone vocalizes any kind of rationale. There's absolutely nothing anyone could say to persuade me that "Scott Steiner is the greatest wrestler ever" isn't an insane statement, much less defensible. But that has to do with how people are weighing greatness rather than anything at all to do with Scott Steiner. People clearly approached this with very, very different standards of greatness. As an example, there are a few names on my list that I'd call personal picks who I really enjoy through and through but couldn't credibly argue are "greater" than a few names I may have left off my list. But they're also at the bottom of the list rather than the basis for the entire process, whereas that sounds like what has served as the means for some lists. Nothing wrong with it, but if people are in fact using wildly different concepts of great then there are going to be some strong thoughts on the outcomes.

I'd stick to Japan. Not sure you'll find anything of value domestically, though it'll at least be quick.

He's said he goes after the trolls because its apparently good for business. Literally. You won't see him giving any hell to folks that ask legitimate questions.

Exactly, not covering LU tapings differently than any other company's.

There is a difference though, since reporting on the others is reporting on a wrestling company, while LU is reporting on a tv show. They don't do houseshows or live shows or anything, it's all canned taped stuff. Its wrestling. The Wrestling Observer Newsletter has always covered it. There is no difference. I don't really care, I don't have a sub. Him chastising anyone for caring is silly though. Helps to subscribe or be familiar with it before getting mixed up in the discussion.

There is a difference though, since reporting on the others is reporting on a wrestling company, while LU is reporting on a tv show. They don't do houseshows or live shows or anything, it's all canned taped stuff. Its wrestling. The Wrestling Observer Newsletter has always covered it. There is no difference.

Who would read or listen to Meltzer and not expect to hear spoilers? Not sure where this became a mystery. That's the last place I'd go looking to stay spoiler-free.

Wait until you get to Teranishi's performance in the '84 Gauntlet. I haven't seen enough of him to fill a comp, but he mad his performances count.

Fuchi ranking a shamockery. Need him & Oz to pair off in some intergender tags to break the hands of every voter.

Its a very short match, but I think his Clash performance against Rude in November '91 is one of his best. Absolutely dynamite selling the knee injury the whole way. You throw in (1) those type of selling performances here, (2) the Flair matches (Clash 1 likely overrated but subsequent matches I thought don't get enough love), (3) the Vader series, (4) Cactus, a (5) couple of terrific runs in War Games in '91 and '92 (6) along with slew of fun TV sprints that may not be classics but never overstayed their welcome, (7) an infrequent great big match and I see a case for a bottom of the ballot career if you dug him.

A lot. Don't like this. You had to go to the board to know how to vote. You had to listen to podcasts or go to the board to know about the project. You had to spend time putting together a list of 100 great wrestlers. I don't think any of this leads to someone waltzing in and going 1) HBK 2) Angle 3)... hmm.. Rock and so on. If you found out about this project and went through the voting process (let's face it, it's not a few minutes job to fill out that form) then your vote is worthwhile. Just because people have gaps you don't have, doesn't mean they have sunk this project or anything. This list will probably reflect hardcore fandom really well and if only 4-10 luchadores make the top 100, that is fine. You could be 100% right. Or wrong. Any opinions on it are valid.

Fujinami & Rick Martel were the two names who benefited most from GWE watching. '80s New Japan was a blind spot for me and coming out of it, hell, even midway through, it was clear he was as good as anything in Baba-land and had he been working in that style rather than Inoki's nonsense (which he overcame better than anyone) would've placed even higher. Just a joy to watch every time out.

Absolutely. As absurd as the collective ballot may be, my list is the only one I'll look at more than a second as representative, and I already can't certain parts of it

A lot.

A few runs on national TV for both major promotions?

Angle/Sting/Jeff Hardy & the like shouldn't be such huge surprises at this point. It feels like a very modern / Monday Night Wars type of list -- skewing more heavily towards that universe than would perhaps have otherwise been expected.

Seriously want Oz to stomp on the hands of everyone voter that shunned her.