WingedEagle

Gotta love the PC police. Jerry's lucky he only comes here for trips

Solid, but more because it'd be tough for them to not be passable. Definitely didn't live up to expectations though as they didn't look to be on the same page much of the night. Someone always a half step slow or too fast. Some really interesting, and surprisingly subtle, booking tonight. May/likely mean nothing, given they're going to Europe for the comedy hours that usually produces, but for one night it was pretty refreshing and not in a "they're changing everything!" kind of way.

Really glad to hear you've gotten some positive news. Stay on top of all the wrestling you can, stay positive and keep kicking fucking ass.

Having great typing skills makes you a great typer though, even if you have a shitty keyboard so your speed might not be as high. Typing skills and writing are completely different. I'd still really like to understand where you're coming from with the skills overshadowing the output. It sounds like a way to reach a desired conclusion when the performances simply don't merit it, and I don't believe for a second that that's your goal. Yes, deliberately used the word performance there because unless you're Kota Ibushi there's always at least one other person in the match and its what those performances come together to produce that's the objective. The yards and the touchdowns are the matches and they're the main reasons he's regarded as great. The way he threw the ball is the skill but if it didn't lead to the yards and touchdowns, he'd be Jeff George. So actually, Dan Marino is the ultimate great match quarterback. Or the ultimate performance guy if the metric is titles

Performances and skills and talent always wins out for me. So there's Great Match Theory and perhaps Good Match Theory. I still don't understand this Shopping List Theory though. It completely disregards what you do with the ingredients. Perhaps not *the* goal, every time out. But at the end of the day if someone put on great matches over and over, with variety and consistency across performances, settings and opponents, why would anything at the end of the day trump it if the goal is examining who was great at wrestling in the ring? Not on the mic, not drawing a house, selling merchandise, performances in angle or or creating memorable moments when we were watching as kids and everything was a hair more real -- but putting on excellent wrestling matches. Where does succeeding on this basis still see someone come up short in this folder?

Exactly.

Just imagine his upside if he obtained Canadian citizenship!

That's probably the best assessment. Number of great matches being weighted so heavily bugged me a lot, especially if it was more important than how someone performs. Some people were just in positions to have a TON of great matches and to have those seen by a lot of people. Others did not. The folks who didn't get those chances aren't necessarily worse than those who did. Being in position means they still have to take advantage of that opportunity. And doing so may very well be why they're so often put in such a position. True. However looking at someone like Bret who constantly had to face pirates, dentists, clowns and everybody else and compare that to Kobashi who got to face Misawa, Kawada, Taue, etc.. There is no way Bret would ever be able to equal that many great matches in that situation. Does that mean Kobashi is automatically better? He may be better, but there is more to it than that. Bret had a ton of disadvantages with respect to his opposition. The house style is also not to be discounted. If you dropped Fujinami or Hashimoto Baba's world rather than Inoki's its possible we may view their careers very differently. I also have no idea how one would begin to argue Bret over Kobashi unless you're adamant that the end product really doesn't matter and are only evaluating the ingredients someone brings to the table. If the performances are consistently that excellent then at some point the output should reflect it. May, if, coulda, woulda, shoulda We don't use GWE to re-write history. Skill vs Output. Some value one more than the other. I happen to think that Kobashi laps Bret in both fields, but can understand someone arguing for Bret's skills. There are undoubtedly merits to discussing both, but arguing Bret over Kobashi on the basis of skill reads like like judging a chef based upon on the grocery list rather than the meal. If a given wrestler is that much more highly skilled than another, shouldn't be be able to utilize those skills to put together a pretty impressive resume of big matches? Parv made the points about the various skills, roles and finishes on Kobashi's resume that lap Bret's. I don't see a compelling argument for Bret in any of those departments, but let's say someone does. I'm struggling to see where checking those boxes in isolation overcomes the actual matches that result from those tools. Its not like we're working with a small sample of footage from either and being forced to extrapolate from there as though there's a great unknown about what they could do on a given day, which understandably lends itself to a much more open question. Its all on tape and we've seen it. It has to be more than just applying a handicap for their respective opposition.

That's probably the best assessment. Number of great matches being weighted so heavily bugged me a lot, especially if it was more important than how someone performs. Some people were just in positions to have a TON of great matches and to have those seen by a lot of people. Others did not. The folks who didn't get those chances aren't necessarily worse than those who did. Being in position means they still have to take advantage of that opportunity. And doing so may very well be why they're so often put in such a position. True. However looking at someone like Bret who constantly had to face pirates, dentists, clowns and everybody else and compare that to Kobashi who got to face Misawa, Kawada, Taue, etc.. There is no way Bret would ever be able to equal that many great matches in that situation. Does that mean Kobashi is automatically better? He may be better, but there is more to it than that. Bret had a ton of disadvantages with respect to his opposition. The house style is also not to be discounted. If you dropped Fujinami or Hashimoto Baba's world rather than Inoki's its possible we may view their careers very differently. I also have no idea how one would begin to argue Bret over Kobashi unless you're adamant that the end product really doesn't matter and are only evaluating the ingredients someone brings to the table. If the performances are consistently that excellent then at some point the output should reflect it.

That's probably the best assessment. Number of great matches being weighted so heavily bugged me a lot, especially if it was more important than how someone performs. Some people were just in positions to have a TON of great matches and to have those seen by a lot of people. Others did not. The folks who didn't get those chances aren't necessarily worse than those who did. Being in position means they still have to take advantage of that opportunity. And doing so may very well be why they're so often put in such a position.

Beyond stoked for this and going to jump on it as soon as I get in the car. The podcast backlog I'll have from all of this a week from now is daunting, but hey, GWE.

Sleeze, you are my man. How great was Baba against Hansen and Race at this point? No qualms at all about putting Hansen (or anyone, for that matter) over strongly and didn't even need to lay down for it. He's Mr. All Japan and just getting rolled by this Texan beast shows he's a force to be reckoned with. He may not be quick or sudden enough to pull out offense with as much impact as the Lariat, but between his chops, legsweeps, boots and suplexes he could cut down any opponent and it was all super over. The very definition of an amazing limited worker.

Do people actively dislike this match or is it overlooked given that the '83 draw is an all-timer? Certainly started a bit slow but as Sleeze noted, when this does pick up they put together a really solid title match that holds up incredibly well. Bonus points for Jumbo's curls here as well.

Echo those thoughts for Ashura Hara. Him, Ishikawa & that ilk were all late bubble cuts for me that I really wanted to make room for quite couldn't. Vital players in a ton of great matches in big feuds.

Didn't rank Hamaguchi but really happy to see that others did. Feels like a superior Akitoshi Saito who never really had his own classics but but played an excellent role in a ton of multi-man matches.

I know its all good fun. Some wackiness I can wrap my head around, some I can't. We all have our hangups right? I'm sure no one who posts here would try to troll things, and we'll all have a few names on our list at the bottom of the overall. That's just how it goes. But this top 10 business I can still find baffling

I'm not going to be able to unsee this Full House gimmick now, especially with middle Tanner on the cover of Us Weekly this week. As for this Kendrick gimmick? I know its all in good fun and everyone has their presumably legit opinions, but its the kind of thing that makes it hard to take the results seriously.

Are you going to add back photos for those below 499?

Can't lie, seeing a podcast that long is a huge buzzkill. Just need to be prepared to make dents and get through it in time. But loving it so far. Makes the commute and traffic a whole lot more tolerable. Oh believe me it's a buzz kill for me as well. Going in to this I wanted it to be the "concise" GWE pod. Silly me Ha I bet. Absolutely no clue how you guys block out that much time. A huge help is also listening at 2x speed. Don't lose anything but helps you churn through material a bit quicker. 3x sounds like listening to a cartoon though. Just can't go that far.

Can't lie, seeing a podcast that long is a huge buzzkill. Just need to be prepared to make dents and get through it in time. But loving it so far. Makes the commute and traffic a whole lot more tolerable.

We should probably just make everybody change their avatar to the pic of the lowest ranked guy they were high voter on. Scarlet letter the shit out of this place and shame everyone. It would be glorious. That's a great idea......unless you're me.....the guy who's the high voter on someone who played a pro-apartheid gimmick. You're right. Then its the best idea ever. Let's make PWO great again.

I was about to change mine to Teranishi but looks like the pics have been taken down.

I'm an hour in and very much enjoying this. Traffic on the drive home tonight will dictate how much further I make it before the weekend, but already loving Marty's list and appreciate where Kelly's coming from even he's determined to make war with Japan.

We should probably just make everybody change their avatar to the pic of the lowest ranked guy they were high voter on. Scarlet letter the shit out of this place and shame everyone. It would be glorious. This is absolutely brilliant. Would happily put Teranishi as my avatar. So far him and Reigns are the only 2 on my list to pop up. As much as I don't love ranking Reigns at this stage, he was half of 2 classics and that's not something I could simply dismiss.

I expected Mistico to get a lot more love. Probably shows what I know about lucha, but figured he'd rank on a number of ballots.