WingedEagle

The Bockwinkel match still blows my mind, but I can still probably count on 1 or 2 hands the number of Robinson matches I've seen and have enough fingers left over for dim sum. What else is out there that I have to check out?

Pretty cool that Bray Wyatt, Blackjack Mulligan, Barry Windham and Mike Rotunda voted last time.

Will, how do you rate him vs. Rey? I feel like I could fill up more space with good Misterio matches but could probably rattle off more than dozen Liger classics that are legit all time great matches. Not sure Rey got to that level quite as many times, even though he was unquestionably not put in a position to do so as much as Liger.

He absolutely looked and carried himself like someone who'd be an out of control brawler. He was okay at that when he did it, but I don't think means people reject him for working differently. If you're going to work holds, make it compelling. Give me a struggle. Show me someone fighting off pain or working to wear down your opponent in a dedicated fashion or avoid having the same done to you. Or work holds to set someone up for a high spot. Brody never did for me. There's also a time and place to not sell and it can be incredibly effective and pop a crowd if held off for a while. But when you never sell at all it renders one half of a match impotent and combine that with a sometimes lacking approach on offense, and you've got someone who's matches don't have a lot I look for. I absolutely get the many digs at Kurt Angle here and can't really argue them, but I can still enjoy what he does for a bit before it becomes overkill. But at least he had some hot spots to keep me engaged. Brody rarely even delivered that much from what I've seen.

I thought Hase was also in for his influence in booking NJPW. No clue how responsible he was or wasn't for the company's direction but I seem to recall Dave giving him a lot of credit for that.

Maybe I'm crazy but I didn't mind the odd spot like Shane outwrestling Kurt. Done well and very sparingly, that always seemed like someone pulling out a move from the and1 tour just to pop people for a second before getting back to business. I found the extended mat wrestling in the Benoit match at 17 a lot more tedious and absurd.

Han is definitely an interesting comparison here. I've got no idea how I'm going to weigh the quantity issue in cases like these other than to guess I'll be inconsistent.

Do I need to watch anything as a lead in to the Sheik/Abby tag league matches from '78 and '79 or can I jump right in?

I will make room for him on my list. Like Joe said, the highs are out of this world, and he's easily a personal favorite who will do something fun or interesting in a throwaway popcorn. Whether he gets a spot at the bottom or because I love him depends on what and how much I find from before the 2000s. I know there are a few highly touted matches in the archives here that I can start with.

Maybe its because he's someone I hadn't watched in years and had formed a gross misconception about him, but in going through the '92-'93 yearbooks Hase has been one of my absolute favorites. His holds, spots and transitions are all crisp without theatrics and he's as awesome at selling as he is tearing into an open wound and trying to drain every last ounce of blood from his opponent. That's before we get to his fire and charisma. He could play the fiery NJ babyface vs. WAR on one night or a bloodthirsty and vicious heel the next. Easily someone I want to go back and watch what he was doing in the 80s as well as what was there when he moved to AJ, as on the New Japan side the only one at his level is Hashimoto.

The Lawler match may very well be his best output. Points for making the LT match more than passable. Is it possible his hottest was the beyond brief debut in WCW where he was programmed with Goldberg before sliding down to the triad with DDP & Kanyon?

I always thought AJ was fine in TNA other than being tainted with the same stink that's afflicted just about everyone there over the years. He had a knack for mixing in flying and athleticism without letting it dominate his game. After his introduction in NJ and insertion in the title picture I was pretty skeptical having enjoyed the Tanahashi/Okada focus over the last couple years. But he's fit in there without any problem at all, was the MVP of the G1 in my eyes and as already noted put himself on the short list for wrestler of the year. I don't know that he'd make my list absent another year or 2 like this one, but I'm now at least happy to look back at some TNA and ROH to see what case can be made for him.

I don't disagree with Jerry about Arn -- not a ton of home runs, but he'll get you 50 doubles and a great OPS. How many great singles matches does he have? How many long singles does he even have? Was the Big Josh match his longest? There are probably countless tag or multi-man matches he was a part of that were great, but the list of 1 on 1s probably has a lot of doubles. I can't imagine my list without Arn.

Yeah, this may result in "guy who had a couple or handful of very good matches" getting nominated, but hopefully it doesn't mean anyone who had a few solid nights places in a GOAT poll.

I knew I was blanking on something. The Warrior matches were awesome so put a definite feather in his cap on those. Not sure how I overlooked them. No comment on Rodman. The DDP series was fine, but DDP was delivering solid matches with most folks during that period. The Savage series didn't rise above any of those for me. But yeah, Warrior. Whoops!

I don't know that I could point to any excellent technical or matwork from Savage. I always loved his punches, his athleticism and how it translated into a pretty neat highspots for a guy of his size in in late 80s / early 90s WWF/WCW. But he could also slow things down quite a bit and may very well be someone who wrestled to the level of his opponent. How many top matches did he have against people not named Flair, Steamboat or Lawler? I'm sure there are some I'd come up with if I go through his various runs but that's what springs to mind. The work never clicked for me on the level of the character.

I love Savage for his charisma, his promos and making things feel big. But he's not someone with many matches I look back on as either classics or ones I want to rewatch. The former will probably ensure he makes my list, while the latter will put a pretty firm ceiling on his placement.

Thanks for providing a little background and context regarding the the SC poll and Taue. I might not have participated in PWO and its predecessors / peers as long as some others, but the idea that Taue is a beneficiary of any recently discovered footage or rethinking doesn't jibe with anything I've seen anywhere. The guy has has been a fringe HOF candidate. Perhaps folks didn't think his work was stellar enough to merit inclusion there, but that's a far cry from not ruining some classics.

I love when someone here takes a view counter to the traditional wisdom about a wrestler and then says things like "Doubtful at this point the light is going to come on for you" like I'm the one out in left field. The onus is on you to explain why everyone has been wrong for two decades, not vice versa. I like Taue. I think it's commendable that he was able to take part in some classic wrestling matches without ruining them. It's also clear that All Japan's fans, hierarchy and contemporary American fans didn't see him on the same level as the promotion's top stars. There's such a desperation in some circles to be the one to "discover" someone that people are able to talk themselves into things that are self-evidently not true. I can't imagine you'd have such strong thoughts on Taue if you haven't watched a lot of his matches. If you have watched a lot of his matches, its doubtful you're going to markedly change your mind on him. Is that such an outlandish suggestion? Wisdom is not conventional because it is yours. Where has the opinion that Taue was a middle of the pack worker for AJPW during that era become commonplace? I'm not aware of it being the case here, in the WON or the few other places online I may visit. And who is discovering anyone here? This is Akira Taue. No one's unearthing anything that people haven't watched for years. Just let me know the grain I'm going against and where all this indifference towards Taue became so prominent and the established CW and I'll be happy to to tell you, subjectively, why I think its bs. On the other hand, I'd like to hear why you find him such a bore, how the fact he wasn't athletic dragged things down or why he was lazy. Have you spoken to him? His motivations would certainly be news to me, but perhaps you can explain why most people I'm aware of who've watched that era of AJPW enjoyed his work.

I'm with concrete in that I know Benoit belongs, and can probably easily say he's better than some on my list and not quite as good as others, but its hardly worth the energy to place him. There are better things to think about.

Embry would definitely be near the top of the list of my favorite wrestlers who don't make my GOAT 100. Long live the sleaze.

It sounds like Taue simply didn't click at all for you, which is really a shame. I think Fuchi is one of the more underrated wrestlers from that period, but couldn't begin to sell myself on him at Taue's level. I also think Taue's awkwardness and lack of athleticism, and how he worked around them, are part of what makes him so unique and compelling. But you're reading apathy and boredom into what the rest of us see as a dickish heel who can't believe someone like Kobashi would make him expend energy just to hold onto his tag titles. Doubtful at this point the light is going to come on for you with respect to him.

Which 10 were better and could've taken his place during that era?

While we're at it, same goes for Suzuki/Tanahashi from 10/12, which also didn't have juice going for it.

Or it could be case of Mays, Mantle, Snider and Ashburn. It may depend on how much one views them in relative terms to each other or in relative terms to everyone else. How about as the Isaiah to Magic or Bird, or Barkley to Jordan? He's not The Guy. But that guy isn't The Guy without him.