WingedEagle
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Everything posted by WingedEagle
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Whether you found a match good or great, or bad or average, isn't guesswork. Why it turned out that way absolutely is very much guesswork that can only be somewhat reduced by hearing from the participants, booker and anyone else responsible for laying it out.
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Sounds good, any need to hit them in a particular order or just dive right in? Want to give myself a couple hours of him as an intro. Trying to jump around and hit a bunch of unfamiliar names before eventually going back and digging deeper where I want more.
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I've read a ton about what folks on PWO love about Lawler and have tried to see it for myself, but don't. Can't see him ranking for me.
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Where to start with Rose? He has an extensive thread in the microscope but give me 2-3 good matches and 4-5 greats to check out.
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I loved his matches with Baba in AJPW. They put each other over like kings.
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5/21/94 isn't 6/9/95 or 12/6/96. But it was the first big AJPW match I saw and the one that hooked me. If you're new to their game you won't regret jumping in then. If you want to be comprehensive, start with 6/1/93 and 12/3/93 beforehand.
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YEAH!
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Best Non-WrestleMania Pay-Per-View Ever?
WingedEagle replied to JaymeFuture's topic in Pro Wrestling
Bash '89? Sentimental pick here is Barely Legal, as on that night it felt like the coolest show I'd seen and the ultimate reward for being an ECW fan. But it is no longer that night. -
Night of Champions 2014 (Live as it happens)
WingedEagle replied to goodhelmet's topic in Pro Wrestling
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, there were other ways to get there. At this point though Cena is probably my #2 opponent for Brock at Mania behind Bryan, though safe to say neither is happening. -
Night of Champions 2014 (Live as it happens)
WingedEagle replied to goodhelmet's topic in Pro Wrestling
Wouldn't have guessed that Rusev would have better matches with Swagger & Big E. That was a bore. -
Night of Champions 2014 (Live as it happens)
WingedEagle replied to goodhelmet's topic in Pro Wrestling
Somebody thought Knowshon Moreno was cool. -
Night of Champions 2014 (Live as it happens)
WingedEagle replied to goodhelmet's topic in Pro Wrestling
Not sure if the injury changes things, but it really looks like they'll have to worry about both Ambrose & Bryan crowds hijacking the build to Mania if they insist on sticking with Reigns. -
Night of Champions 2014 (Live as it happens)
WingedEagle replied to goodhelmet's topic in Pro Wrestling
The only belt I want to see Miz win is that cursed belt from FMW that kills whoever holds it. You, sir, receive a gold star. -
Sounds good. With the holidays this week I will essentially have the afternoons on Thursday & Friday to watch a lot of stuff. Hopefully get to these, a little more Billy Robinson and start on someone else then as well.
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Night of Champions 2014 (Live as it happens)
WingedEagle replied to goodhelmet's topic in Pro Wrestling
Miz vs. Ziggler -- I caught Sandow's entrance because he's awesome. Then I was a good husband and went to say hi to the wife and hang there for a few minutes. Got back to see more of the finish than I'd like, but at least I saw Sandow doing his thing during the celebration. I don't know what you do with him but he makes Miz tolerable and that's some HOF type game. -
Not much here. How about 5 average/good and 1-2 greats to start with?
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I'm a sucker for him. He'll rank very highly for me among American workers of the last 20 years.
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Night of Champions 2014 (Live as it happens)
WingedEagle replied to goodhelmet's topic in Pro Wrestling
Uso vs. Dust Brothers - Solid match with a lot of fun spots that built well with near falls down the stretch. The finish was weak and I'm not at all a fan of moving the belts off of the Usos. Sheamus vs. Cesaro - Well this was pretty damn awesome with a hot stretch run and some great, powerful spots with two big dudes hitting each other hard. But again a finish I absolutely hated that protects someone who's been more invisible than even Orton all year while again having Cesaro come up short on a flash pin. Man did I ever want him to win this and see where things go from here. -
Totally agree, nothing wrong with that and I think Tenryu deserves praise for doing what he did as he aged. Matt seemed to be expressly knocking Flair's career because of his later years, which is a whole other game.
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Last week, it was all about how you only need so many Bock matches to show you that he's a great worker, and that lets you know how good he is overall. But now with Flair you want him to be consistent for his whole career including his post-peak? I don't get it. Great point. If we're going to be fair, we need to seek out all of the late career and junk someone may have put out rather than choice selections from the peak. I don't know anyone's viewing habits or history here, but Flair's downside was something I watched basically week to week, as opposed to even his peaks, which I was too young to see and appreciate, but I'm not about to hold that exposure against him. Its one of my concerns in ranking people I really haven't seen more than a handful of times, Bock included. I'll have seen the best and worst of many US & Japanese guys from the last 20 years or so, and nothing close to as much from those before then. There has to be a balance in not penalizing someone to whom we have greater exposure and rewarding those with limited exposure.
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Baseless might be harsh, but I think saying that wrestling is art rather than sport is pretty harsh as well. It dismisses the incredibly physical nature of any narrative or storytelling that wrestlers may be presenting and takes for granted the ability to do that on a consistent and prolonged basis, which is a huge part of Flair's legacy. I also don't see the point about Brando or anyone of that ilk as being accurate. Do Dr. Moreau or Don Juan Demarco in any way tarnish the Godfather, On the Waterfront, Apocalypse Now, even The Freshman? Did Last Vegas somehow bring about a reevaluation of De Niro's career? Where an artist has decades of outstanding work, some low quality paydays, output or whatever you want to call it at the end doesn't in any way diminish the greatness that preceded it. Similarly, If Flair's late career run was the bulk of his career, or even a significant part of it -- let's say taking the place of the '80s, -- I could see one taking the approach that his career, on the whole, wasn't exactly up to GOAT snuff. But it didn't take the place of that. It was just what occurred at the end. Perhaps it comes off worse to you because of the view that is strictly art without any element of sport. I just happen to also see it as the result of his abilities declining due to his physical condition after doing what he did year after year after year before that. Which isn't something I'd hold against him.
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Ha sorry if I didn't make my point -- I'm not faulting him for how often he did or didn't blade and have zero issue with that. It always looked like when he did, there was almost no flow and he dried up pretty quickly. Some guys blade and GUSH. His juicing looked as though he had incredible natural powers of healing.
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Not exactly a factor in this discussion, but I always noticed that Rock was one of the most awkward bleeders ever. Blood took to his skin like rain to waterproof jacket. It never seemed to stick, just kind of a slow trickle and disappeared pretty quickly.
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That's why this discussion will not get resolved. I think that statement is as baseless and incomplete as saying that wrestling is pure sport and not art. There are fortunately elements of both on display to varying degrees every time out.
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I don't see why Flair adapting in the twilight of his career is remotely relevant. I know its not a perfect analogy, but no one evaluates Jordan based on his years in DC, or slights Misawa or Kobashi for the last few years of their career. We've got 20+ years of him as an all timer. What follows that doesn't take away a thing from that stretch unless it somehow ruins your ability to look back at those matches. I don't think there's anyone I'd consider ranking who will take a hit because of what they did or didn't do in the twilight of a long career. If that's the approach I think its only fair to similarly go and knock Volk Han and anyone else who's quantity of output during their prime doesn't approach that of someone who was out there producing on a regular basis.