WingedEagle

Curious to check out some of the examples you point to here before injury / illness compromised him. They're not flaws I found in him at all but want to see what I'm missing or if it just doesn't matter to me.

This is my conundrum. He was vital to the 6 man classics from that era, but I'm not sure how you build a case for him individually on the back of those matches. Also one of the best examples of a junior heavyweight who rose above that stigma without actually graduating from that class.

Bret vs. Cena. Now that's a comp that will give me a reason to look back at Hart.

The biggest standout feud is Jarrett/Lawler vs the Moondogs right? I think Moondog Spot is pretty much unquestionably a better candidate than Jarrett. Concur. Enjoyed many non-Jarrett Moondog matches more than non-Moondog Jarrett matches.

Gut reaction says top 20 feels right with top 10 a distinct possibility. Someone I watched a ton of on the ROH/Indy level and just about everything in his WWE run. When I sit down and look at just the depth of his record and extent of classics on top, it would not surprise me if he finished a lot higher than expectations. How many guys that worked as frequently had as few matches that were worse than good?

I enjoyed Butcher vs. Joe. I've yet to see other Butcher that even left me comfortable, so hoping there's some more "normal" in his repertoire to check out.

That's probably 4/14/83. I agree those are top notch, but check out the title matches vs. Baba from that era as well. Totally different and so much better than I would've expected going in. Baba wasn't exactly power or speed personified at that point, but Hansen made him look like a world beater. Some of my favorites from early 80s AJ.

I watched the 80s Memphis set and didn't come away from that thinking of Lawler as an all timer. Not sure there's a whole lot else out there that would change my thinking here but happy to have my attention turned somewhere new.

Loss & Elliot hit on it, but US & Puerto Rico will determine just how high Hansen comes in as I'm more than familiar with everything he's done in Japan, but the rest of his work is more of a blind spot.

Can people point out a few representative Santo matches ranging from a good, run of the mill performance to some classics? Preferably looking for ones that aren't already in the Match Discussion Archives. I've watched so little lucha compared with US and Japan that I can't fairly place someone like him, but have always enjoyed his work and found his timing and pacing particularly excellent in that he seems to work slower, but no less sudden, than just about anyone in lucha.

In going through yearbooks and some NOAH footage I've been watching out for some of the nits that people pick at with Kobashi as he was resonated with me more than anyone in Japan when I first started getting tapes. I'm happy to say I'm still pumping my fist when he goes up to miss a moonsault and legit sitting up or getting off the couch more for his tropes and charisma just as much as always. Maybe some of the issues others have with him will speak to me as I rewatch more, but I suspect he'll beat back many challengers on my ballot.

Thanks for posting these. I've seen a few of these after going hard at 90s joshi so am eager to check out the others. As an aside, I went into Chigusa/Dump pretty much cold other than vaguely recalling Meltzer writing about it in passing, and man, that is one of those matches and scenes you will not forget. I know some people can't get into joshi because they simply don't find women engaging at that level of violence appealing. I can't relate to it on this level but at the same time and would only encourage people who don't find Chiggy/Dump their cup of tea to try some pickings from the other end of the spectrum before passing on the style. And to never forget that Bull Nakano wins.

I think this is a great point and should absolutely be reflected in your poll. I also don't think there's any way I could put Mike Jackson over Flair in the example below (is Mike Jackson even a legit name or just an example?) but that's also okay. Hopefully there are enough participants that the final results reflect this diversity.

I absolutely get that, but like you said 4th best in that class is pretty remarkable. How much did Taue allow the others to build their resumes? I'm not sure there was anyone capable of filling that role over the years without the entire generation's work taking a pretty big hit. I get that he's not Shaq or Kobe, but he's a lot closer to them than he is to Robert Horry. Who also I think one can make a pretty strong HOF case for but that's neither here nor there

My biggest takeaway from the NXT match on Raw is that they should absolutely have 1 NXT match on the show every month, ideally a 4-5 minute spotfest or with some other unique hook to get people interested in NXT. You don't want this to become Tough Enough, but can easily have the right people out there for a few minutes as a showcase for Network programming. They could do many things such as build next week's Cena/Lesnar issue for Main Event instead of Raw, but the NXT thing doesn't require a radical change in approach.

I'm cracking up on the couch here. SF/Dallas is a blowout, so I put on wrestling -- Jannetty vs 123 Kid from September 1993. Couple minutes into the match what do we have? BOOM. And it was was great, with the wrinkle here that the backslide was blocked.

There are probably a few people on the roster I'd less prefer to see Lesnar go against, but just a few. Maybe if the change his name to Show and drop the Big part they'll stop using him as a fallback in these situations. The one thing he's done all year was job for Brock on the way to Mania and then nothing since then. I'm sure they could find someone else to fill this role.

I think there's definitely a place for promos in this discussion, and to some extent they'll be a factor whether we want them specifically excluded from consideration or not. Using Flair/Kobashi as an example, if you've watched through Flair's run with the Horsemen -- including all promos and angles -- your mileage on his work during that period's matches may very well be different from someone who watched the matches without the promos and angles. Much like Loss was speaking about big matches earlier, the promos and progression into a match absolutely impact my anticipation, the crowd on that night and thus how much I enjoyed it. Kobashi doesn't have that going for him (or in some cases against him), so you're going strictly based on his work. You're also probably working off of fewer matches unless you've combed the planet seeking out minor Kobashi matches from tours throughout the years, and some may give Flair the nod there because of volume. Just another part of the subjective that will make this fun and guarantee some variety in the balloting.

Love it. What's the harm? It'll create a lot more discussion and debate (especially given the need for creating threads for those who don't already have them) and serve as a viewing project for people to focus on who aren't working their way through the 80s, 90s, Network content and...on the other hand, maybe this is a disaster waiting to happen Perhaps even a whole new-subfolder with threads serving as a reference for each candidate. Plenty of ways to structure things.

Can anyone recommend a site for wrestling autographs / memorabilia?

Great point, things didn't fall off the rails that quickly. Man BatB did ridiculous numbers, had the Finals tie in, and your hottest star and world champion doing nothing and then in a mid-card battle royal the next month. Amazing.

Very possibly. Sting/Hogan at Starrcade did the best business any WCW PPV ever did. Austin/HBK with Tyson a few months later beat it, and while that was very much due to Tyson's involvement, Austin/Vince the following February and Austin/Rock at Mania the next year with zero celebrity bump and no McMahon novelty also beat it. That's also without getting into how the Vince feud helped set Austin up as the top face in the company to a level that let them go public and go to a whole other level.

I'd add LA Park vs. Wagner Jr. from I believe 5/11/13 which I prefer to the Mesias bout, but both are spectacular and 1st tier matches here. A couple other NJPW picks: Okada vs. Naito (March 2012) Most Shield TV matches belong in Tier 3, with a few in Tier 2. Their top-shelf PPV matches have already been listed. Offhand the one where they lost for the first time on Smackdown was great, as well as the few that immediately preceded it, but really you will not regret including most of their 6 man tags.

Jericho can cut it on the mic. He can also be passable in the ring at this point. I've also always been a fan. But he looks beyond old. I don't mean older than Jericho used to look, but "if I'm on the bus and that guy gets on I'm offering him my seat' old. He should stick to podcasts.

Absent a wild card like Hunter or Rock, I'd guess we something like Batista and/or Bryan before Reigns. He's at NoC because of Network renewals and I'd put the over/under on matches between NoC and Mania at 2.5.