WingedEagle

I'd probably put Taue at number four as well, but wouldn't tune out an argument to plcae him higher. But what are 1990s AJPW without him? I don't see Fuchi or someone else stepping up and filling even 50% of that role for purposes of the tag feud, and you're also wiping out the Kawada matches before they paired off and in the Carnival afterwards, the Misawa classics in '95 and the Kobashi title win in '96, and that's just scratching the surface. Akiyama certainly wasn't ready for that role yet; so I just don't see how removing Taue out doesn't markedly impact the others, as you can't stretch out and build all the TC matches without those tags providing layers along the way. For HOF purposes if people want to argue against his record as a draw and weight that significantly over his work you can certainly make that case, but you can't do that without poking a few large holes in a number of previous inductees.

I've seen and forgotten most of Rey's WWE work from the '00s so will need to refresh myself on the big matches there. He may also suffer a little in my eyes from simply having so many good matches that blend together as opposed to someone like Lyger where I wasn't watching him every week but everything I did see stood out. They obviously wrestled very different opponents and styles over the last 15 years, but curious how people rate him and Lyger.

EDIT: If it wasn't already clear, I was talking about Samurai here and somehow had a brain freeze and put this in the Dragon thread. Ultimo will probably get a seat in lodge or mezzanine to view my list.

an example that always springs to mind is a Money in the Bank match he was in 2ish years ago. they do an 'everyone climb the ladders' spot, except for henry. henry comes in, stands between the ladders, and pushes them over. now these ladders are easy to push over, smaller guys than henry have pushed over these ladders with minimal effort multiple times in the match. but henry stands between them, tries to push over both over at once, makes a strained face, screams, and slowly builds the momentum/energy to start tipping the ladders. it was a spot made memorable entirely by henry's treatment of it in doing something unique and interesting in how he went about doing it. and most of henry's matches have a couple moments like this. that impresses me more than working a standard 'epic' style match more or less the same way those matches have been worked before, without doing anything individually interesting or unique in them. smart fans put too much weight on epic, main event style matches in terms of valuing wrestlings and less weight on 'regular' matches, even if a wrestler manages to make them consistently entertaining(something many of the more highly regarded wrestlers on the basis of their epic-style matches arent able to do, jericho comes to mind) and always make sure to do something individually interesting and creative, even if it's low key, instead of phoning it in. Great point here about Henry doing certain little things differently from the norm and adding a wrinkle with his execution and charisma to make the routine stand out. Somewhat similar to what I appreciate about Taue, who was obviously an all timer but had some very unique aspects to his game that distinguished his game and character. A couple other workers in the past I've noted were similarly unique and I'll have to go back and dig those names up when not watching football since they're not on the top of my head. That being said, it doesn't get Henry anywhere near the top of this kind of list, but will be interesting to see if it finds a place for him towards the bottom.

There's room on a ballot for someone who had a hand in classics as different as the Liger series in '92 and Kanemoto in '97, not even mentioning the rest of his work in tags and singles with a wide range of opponents. Enough depth and diversity that he should rank higher than most juniors.

He's been excellent the last couple of years. I think I need to see a whole lot of stellar performances before the current NJ run for him to make the list, but he's someone I'm more than willing to seek out gems to try and squeeze him in.

I absolutely agree with this sentiment even if I don't quite agree with the 50% number. But I've never understood the Piper love, especially on the character side. I want to watch more of him in connection with reviewing Portland, but can't imagine him sniffing a top 300.

Misawa has the conch heading into this thing, with Kawada, Hansen, Kobashi, Jumbo and Tenryu the immediate challengers. Curious to see how high Flair, Austin, Michaels and Taue place.

Curious to check out some of the examples you point to here before injury / illness compromised him. They're not flaws I found in him at all but want to see what I'm missing or if it just doesn't matter to me.

This is my conundrum. He was vital to the 6 man classics from that era, but I'm not sure how you build a case for him individually on the back of those matches. Also one of the best examples of a junior heavyweight who rose above that stigma without actually graduating from that class.

Bret vs. Cena. Now that's a comp that will give me a reason to look back at Hart.

The biggest standout feud is Jarrett/Lawler vs the Moondogs right? I think Moondog Spot is pretty much unquestionably a better candidate than Jarrett. Concur. Enjoyed many non-Jarrett Moondog matches more than non-Moondog Jarrett matches.

Gut reaction says top 20 feels right with top 10 a distinct possibility. Someone I watched a ton of on the ROH/Indy level and just about everything in his WWE run. When I sit down and look at just the depth of his record and extent of classics on top, it would not surprise me if he finished a lot higher than expectations. How many guys that worked as frequently had as few matches that were worse than good?

I enjoyed Butcher vs. Joe. I've yet to see other Butcher that even left me comfortable, so hoping there's some more "normal" in his repertoire to check out.

That's probably 4/14/83. I agree those are top notch, but check out the title matches vs. Baba from that era as well. Totally different and so much better than I would've expected going in. Baba wasn't exactly power or speed personified at that point, but Hansen made him look like a world beater. Some of my favorites from early 80s AJ.

I watched the 80s Memphis set and didn't come away from that thinking of Lawler as an all timer. Not sure there's a whole lot else out there that would change my thinking here but happy to have my attention turned somewhere new.

Loss & Elliot hit on it, but US & Puerto Rico will determine just how high Hansen comes in as I'm more than familiar with everything he's done in Japan, but the rest of his work is more of a blind spot.

Can people point out a few representative Santo matches ranging from a good, run of the mill performance to some classics? Preferably looking for ones that aren't already in the Match Discussion Archives. I've watched so little lucha compared with US and Japan that I can't fairly place someone like him, but have always enjoyed his work and found his timing and pacing particularly excellent in that he seems to work slower, but no less sudden, than just about anyone in lucha.

In going through yearbooks and some NOAH footage I've been watching out for some of the nits that people pick at with Kobashi as he was resonated with me more than anyone in Japan when I first started getting tapes. I'm happy to say I'm still pumping my fist when he goes up to miss a moonsault and legit sitting up or getting off the couch more for his tropes and charisma just as much as always. Maybe some of the issues others have with him will speak to me as I rewatch more, but I suspect he'll beat back many challengers on my ballot.

Thanks for posting these. I've seen a few of these after going hard at 90s joshi so am eager to check out the others. As an aside, I went into Chigusa/Dump pretty much cold other than vaguely recalling Meltzer writing about it in passing, and man, that is one of those matches and scenes you will not forget. I know some people can't get into joshi because they simply don't find women engaging at that level of violence appealing. I can't relate to it on this level but at the same time and would only encourage people who don't find Chiggy/Dump their cup of tea to try some pickings from the other end of the spectrum before passing on the style. And to never forget that Bull Nakano wins.

I think this is a great point and should absolutely be reflected in your poll. I also don't think there's any way I could put Mike Jackson over Flair in the example below (is Mike Jackson even a legit name or just an example?) but that's also okay. Hopefully there are enough participants that the final results reflect this diversity.

I absolutely get that, but like you said 4th best in that class is pretty remarkable. How much did Taue allow the others to build their resumes? I'm not sure there was anyone capable of filling that role over the years without the entire generation's work taking a pretty big hit. I get that he's not Shaq or Kobe, but he's a lot closer to them than he is to Robert Horry. Who also I think one can make a pretty strong HOF case for but that's neither here nor there

My biggest takeaway from the NXT match on Raw is that they should absolutely have 1 NXT match on the show every month, ideally a 4-5 minute spotfest or with some other unique hook to get people interested in NXT. You don't want this to become Tough Enough, but can easily have the right people out there for a few minutes as a showcase for Network programming. They could do many things such as build next week's Cena/Lesnar issue for Main Event instead of Raw, but the NXT thing doesn't require a radical change in approach.

I'm cracking up on the couch here. SF/Dallas is a blowout, so I put on wrestling -- Jannetty vs 123 Kid from September 1993. Couple minutes into the match what do we have? BOOM. And it was was great, with the wrinkle here that the backslide was blocked.

There are probably a few people on the roster I'd less prefer to see Lesnar go against, but just a few. Maybe if the change his name to Show and drop the Big part they'll stop using him as a fallback in these situations. The one thing he's done all year was job for Brock on the way to Mania and then nothing since then. I'm sure they could find someone else to fill this role.