WingedEagle

Uso vs. Dust Brothers - Solid match with a lot of fun spots that built well with near falls down the stretch. The finish was weak and I'm not at all a fan of moving the belts off of the Usos. Sheamus vs. Cesaro - Well this was pretty damn awesome with a hot stretch run and some great, powerful spots with two big dudes hitting each other hard. But again a finish I absolutely hated that protects someone who's been more invisible than even Orton all year while again having Cesaro come up short on a flash pin. Man did I ever want him to win this and see where things go from here.

Totally agree, nothing wrong with that and I think Tenryu deserves praise for doing what he did as he aged. Matt seemed to be expressly knocking Flair's career because of his later years, which is a whole other game.

Last week, it was all about how you only need so many Bock matches to show you that he's a great worker, and that lets you know how good he is overall. But now with Flair you want him to be consistent for his whole career including his post-peak? I don't get it. Great point. If we're going to be fair, we need to seek out all of the late career and junk someone may have put out rather than choice selections from the peak. I don't know anyone's viewing habits or history here, but Flair's downside was something I watched basically week to week, as opposed to even his peaks, which I was too young to see and appreciate, but I'm not about to hold that exposure against him. Its one of my concerns in ranking people I really haven't seen more than a handful of times, Bock included. I'll have seen the best and worst of many US & Japanese guys from the last 20 years or so, and nothing close to as much from those before then. There has to be a balance in not penalizing someone to whom we have greater exposure and rewarding those with limited exposure.

Baseless might be harsh, but I think saying that wrestling is art rather than sport is pretty harsh as well. It dismisses the incredibly physical nature of any narrative or storytelling that wrestlers may be presenting and takes for granted the ability to do that on a consistent and prolonged basis, which is a huge part of Flair's legacy. I also don't see the point about Brando or anyone of that ilk as being accurate. Do Dr. Moreau or Don Juan Demarco in any way tarnish the Godfather, On the Waterfront, Apocalypse Now, even The Freshman? Did Last Vegas somehow bring about a reevaluation of De Niro's career? Where an artist has decades of outstanding work, some low quality paydays, output or whatever you want to call it at the end doesn't in any way diminish the greatness that preceded it. Similarly, If Flair's late career run was the bulk of his career, or even a significant part of it -- let's say taking the place of the '80s, -- I could see one taking the approach that his career, on the whole, wasn't exactly up to GOAT snuff. But it didn't take the place of that. It was just what occurred at the end. Perhaps it comes off worse to you because of the view that is strictly art without any element of sport. I just happen to also see it as the result of his abilities declining due to his physical condition after doing what he did year after year after year before that. Which isn't something I'd hold against him.

Ha sorry if I didn't make my point -- I'm not faulting him for how often he did or didn't blade and have zero issue with that. It always looked like when he did, there was almost no flow and he dried up pretty quickly. Some guys blade and GUSH. His juicing looked as though he had incredible natural powers of healing.

Not exactly a factor in this discussion, but I always noticed that Rock was one of the most awkward bleeders ever. Blood took to his skin like rain to waterproof jacket. It never seemed to stick, just kind of a slow trickle and disappeared pretty quickly.

That's why this discussion will not get resolved. I think that statement is as baseless and incomplete as saying that wrestling is pure sport and not art. There are fortunately elements of both on display to varying degrees every time out.

I don't see why Flair adapting in the twilight of his career is remotely relevant. I know its not a perfect analogy, but no one evaluates Jordan based on his years in DC, or slights Misawa or Kobashi for the last few years of their career. We've got 20+ years of him as an all timer. What follows that doesn't take away a thing from that stretch unless it somehow ruins your ability to look back at those matches. I don't think there's anyone I'd consider ranking who will take a hit because of what they did or didn't do in the twilight of a long career. If that's the approach I think its only fair to similarly go and knock Volk Han and anyone else who's quantity of output during their prime doesn't approach that of someone who was out there producing on a regular basis.

It very well might, not sure why I had 45 in my head but its certainly closer to to 60 than 30.

Terry & Dory Funk Jr. vs. The Sheik & Abdullah the Butcher (2/3 falls match, 07/15/79) After the Funks steal Roman Reigns' ring entrance through the crowd, the first fall actually sees some wrestling, as opposed to brawling, including I believe the first spinning toehold in the 3 matches I've watched between these teams, but Sheik & Abby go to the weapons and we get double juice after not too long. This is the 3rd match between the teams I'm watching today, but I'm still so impressed at just how much Sheik & Abby bring to the table here. You wouldn't expect two maniac heels in this fashion to use tactics like Austin & Pillman to hide their cheating and foreign objects, but they're just so damn good at those little things as well as the blood. Dory abandons his proper world title match form and is throwing punches, getting the life choked out of him with some kind of small rope or plastic, working with a chair and out for blood quickly enough to keep this great. Terry is apparently murdered at some point late in the 2nd fall which forces Dory to go it alone for a bit. Abdullah makes this segment as well by bumping all over for Dory, before a crazed Terry is back seeking Butcher blood. I couldn't tell you how this ends as it becomes a crazy brawl with half the world trying to break it up and the Funks fighting everyone off to continue going after Sheik & Butcher. It was yet more insanity, blood and brawling, albeit without much of a finish. Now need to seek out the tag league matches from this era as I thought those were just as responsible for making everyone's reps here. ****

Did he actually bs hs family about the result? I assumed they all knew but were still emotional seeing it take place.

I'd start with the Choshu feud as there are fun & classic tags there as well as some shorter singles, and can then move onto the Tenryu series. As you get into Misawa you're basically also covering '90s AJ in general and can approach that how you like. Not to mention the Flair world title match, which is an all timer, but at 45 minutes not where you want to start.

My afternoon has included Abby & Sheik vs. The Funks. Christ is Abby good here. He brings the maniacal, lip smacking, blubbering, stabbing, chopping, juicing madness, but in the same breath he delivers cowardly heel by bailing out on a babyface and some incredible sneaky goodness by carefully working in his foreign object attacks to avoid being caught by the ref. Where do I find more of this Abby?

Terry Funk and Dory Funk Jr vs. The Sheik and Abdullah the Butcher (9/19/78) After this, Dory can go home and tell Marti he is the one who knocks. Heisenberg is in the building! I don't do BJPW style death matches because knives and swords and light tubes and the like are appropriate for snuff flims and not my rasslin. But sick juice jobs, brawling, non-lethal weapons and punching? Sign me up. I liked some of Dory on the AJPW 80s set and thought other performances there were just okay. Then there was the Lawler match from Memphis which was damn good, but otherwise I'd always been in camp with those who found him to be a safe and sound, don't wake the kids "old style" NWA champion. This is definitely how you flip the script and force people to rethink things. Terry had his moments with the *awesome* screaming at Abby, some punch drunk goodness and his signature hot stepping punches. But Dory was a man possessed here and gave the heels every bit of the violence and weaponry that they dished out. Dory literally used the ring bell so effectively that the bell rang. Loudly. He also did so with a face and chest drenched in blood. He punches and stabs at every ring boy that tries to slow him down, just absolutely possessed. The original Sheiky Baby provides the amazing selling this time, looking like he might need his arm amputated by the time this is done. When Dory Funk Jr wanted to bring the hate he absolute could. It just so happens he could also put me to sleep on other occasions when he chose to do so. This occasion was the former. This flew by and once the violence escalated it felt like it was over in a flash. On the other hand, they didn't stretch it out too much and fill it with any clutter or excess. Looking forward to '79. ****1/4

Terry Funk and Dory Funk Jr vs. The Sheik and Abdullah the Butcher (15/12/77) This was good but not what I expected going into it. I figured Sheik & Abby would bludgeon the Funks and we'd get a hot tag and babyface comeback down the stretch. At no point did I imagine seeing Sheik & Abby bumping and selling so well. I'd sooner expect my father in law to come watch Night of Champions tomorrow than see Abdullah take a double atomic drop, but goddamn did we get that here. Terry let his arm get carved up and provide the babyface juice and selling before Dory bailed him out, and that was all well and good, but it didn't outshine the heels here for me. It wasn't as wild and outrageous as it could've been, or as much as the subsequent years will apparently get, but it was solid, fun and not a dull or wasted moment to be found. My only real issue was with the finish -- Joe Higuchi watched Sheik & Abby use proper carving techniques on Terry for the entire heat segment of this match, and then at the end we randomly get a DQ for the same antics? Just don't get that, but it doesn't ruin the whole show. ***1/4 or so. Back after 78 & 79.

Mayumi Ozaki http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/20630-mayumi-ozaki-sugar-sato-vs-kaoru-toshiyo-yamada/?hl=ozaki http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/12631-manami-toyota-toshiyo-yamada-vs-mayumi-ozaki-dynamite-kansai-ajw-120693/?hl=ozaki&do=findComment&comment=5589287 http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/13993-manami-toyota-toshiyo-yamada-vs-mayumi-ozaki-dynamite-kansai-ajw-dream-rush-112692/?hl=ozaki&do=findComment&comment=5517209

Awesome, definitely post which ones we need to check out.

Multiple Hase threads?

I kind of feel the same way, but it raises a question that's been in the back of my mind here -- how many matches is enough to rank someone, let alone highly? We may have more Flair in a given month than from Destroyer's prime, or pre-80s Bockwinkel. Not quite sure yet how to balance that or when I'll be comfortable saying I've seen "enough" of someone.

Ha maybe I'll have to check it out again, as I was with you the first time after initially watching -- felt like a good / very good match with an excellent third fall capped off with some incredible emotion for the unmasking. But it seemed so rushed and without much urgency or tension through the first 2+ falls. We'll see what a rewatch brings. Got the house to myself today with plans to look back at this, ROH TV last week, Funks vs. Abby/Sheik and Billy Robinson. BOOM!

Karl Malone? Not likeable enough to get the Barkley love, and around during Jordan so never got the ring, but still a top 20 all timer.

Yeah, folks were dying to make it out like some Flair/Nikita situation. I love Suzuki and he's probably been my personal favorite in NJPW for the past few years. But that proposition was a big stretch.

Definitely looking more interesting. https://twitter.com/WWE/status/512976420247961600

Thanks, just bookmarked all of that. Plan is to plow through these and Funks vs. Sheik/Abby tomorrow afternoon if I can stay away from the '93 yearbook.

Yes, but Hayes also didn't always get a good night's sleep. And it showed. God bless him but he looked closer to 55 than 35 in 1994.