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Everything posted by Superstar Sleeze
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Thanks, Ricky! I watched the August MSG match in full. It is pretty pedesterian though Valnetine does bust out a shoulderbreaker and they were running an angle with Snuka in critical condition due to a beating from Piper. It is really more of an angle, but it is a really good angle. The ref bump -> Flying Burrito -> Santana gets pin, but Valentine's foot is on ropes unbeknowst to Tito/ref (Protecting the ref!) -> Valentine gets pissed, slaps on the figure-4 and breaks his leg. This leads to the clips I saw of the title where Valentine gets the victory where they do a great play on this finish. This time the ref sees Valentine's foot on the ropes and Tito is the one who thinks he wins only to have the rug taken out from underneath him in the form of a high-knee to the back and Valentine winning the title. Between breaking his leg and stealing his title, I would say Tito's Latin Temper was fully justified in the October rematch that I watched. I cant find the '85 Boston match (guess I am going to have to buy the revised 80s WWF set ) , so I am going to have to settle for the January '85 MSG match. Arriba! WWF I-C Champion Greg Valentine vs Tito Santana 1/21/85 MSG The Flair spot that always seemed the most nonsense to me was the fact that all of his opponents suddenly decided that the Figure-4 was in their repertoire. What I loved about this storyline was Tito was so pissed at Greg that he went out and learned the Figure-4 from Jack Brisco just so he could break Valentine's leg. The beginning was good with Tito's punches being sold well and his initial intent to go after the leg. The first Valentine control segment was well-worked, but nothing awesome. Starting with Tito's first fiery comeback that when this match really picked up, Tito is a great house afire and really brings the violence with his strikes. Valentine was great at putting over his fear of losing the title and possibly his leg as he was constantly powdering as Tito was zeroing in on his leg. My favorite transition to heel heat segment is when an overzealous babyface goes crashing to the outside and this time it happened to Tito on his flying burrito. Valentine's second control segment was much better performed and included the shoulderbreaker. I like the shouldbreaker a lot, but I feel like he should be using the shinbreaker instead. Also I didnt like how he marched around the ring with Tito after Tito going after his legs. They played lets try to get the Figure-4 on. A double clothesline levels the playing field and Tito sends Valentine careening to the outside with a Flying Burrito. The countout victory gets a big pop. I am liking this feud a lot and thought the October match really ratcheted up the heat. I still havent figured which match is the really all-time classic. With that said, bring on the gimmick matches! Reading over Dylan's review for the Boston match between the two, it is clear they duplicated the finish, but it seems like the body of the match is different enough (Valentine worked over the mid-section in NYC and used a lot of elbows) that could be the all-time classic match of the series.
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WWF I-C Champ Greg Valentine vs Tito Santana 10/22/84 MSG You know how in the modern WWE product announcers will say "I have never seen Wrestler X so intense in my life." whenever they are trying to re-push someone. If there was ever a time that cliched statement was apropos it was this Tito Santana performance because Holy Shit! I have never seen him so intense in my life. There was no denying Tito Santana. He was pissed off and taking it out on Valentine's face. Questions: Do we have the title change? How did Tito's leg get hurt? I am so excited for the rematch because I am assuming Valentine is going to grab a hold of that leg and elevate the quality from there.
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WWF I-C Champ Tito Santana vs Greg Valentine 6/16/84 MSG I expected just a good appetizer for the main feud given that this was the first match of the series and it was definitely a match that got me excited to see more. I am so glad they went with arm work rather than a headlock to open. The accidentally falling out of the ropes leading to a heated exchange outside piqued my interest early. I liked Valentine's transition onto offense by using a Tito Thesz Press and turning it into a reverse atomic drop. I like my heels to bump big, but what Valentine lacks in bumping he more than makes up with in killer offense. I need to watch more Tito because he is an excellent babyface at garnering heat based off his selling. That is only one part of the equation, Tito builds on that with a fantastic heated comeback. With the Tito onslaught bearing down on him, Valentine has no chance but to dump him over the top and follow up with a atomic drop on the floor. Valentine picks up a countout win and a rematch. They don't over do it in this match. Valentine didnt get the figure-four nor Santana get the Flying Burrito (did it actually have a name?), but at the same time it was never dull. It was well-worked and made you want to see the next match, where they can now build on this foundation add layers and spots and really elevate the drama. I am really looking forward to rest of the series now.
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Yeah, I went with a horrible third option of picking Tito/Muraco. What a borefest, stay away from that. Been down on the Steamer recently, Im going with Tito/Valentine. Lets see what is online. I think I have one of their matches from a WWE DVD comp.
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WWF I-C Champion The Magnificent Muraco vs Tito Santana - 1/23/84 MSG So I wanted to explore the Tito/Valentine feud, but I figured as a primer I'd watch Tito capture the title from Muraco, but I should have known this wasnt the title change since Hogan wins the big one on this show. Well now, I understand all the Muraco is lazy talk. I mulled this over the interminable Tito headlock and I dont think a more boring match has ever happened in wrestling history. At one point Gorilla asks, "Why should he change focus away from the head?" almost as a direct Fuck You to every fan thinking that that was a total, utter snoozefest. At least Tito showed some good fire during the finish run to the lamest Double DQ in history when both men were fighting in the ropes. So at the next MSG show, Tito is already champ, is the title change preserved for us?
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Without even trying I keep watching the same matches as jdw, hey it makes the play-by-play reviewing easier that's for sure. WWF I-C Champion Greg Valentine vs Ricky Steamboat I had never seen this match before, but always meant to. I may start a Steamboat thread because I have watched about seven of his matches today. He is surprisingly more hit or miss than I expected, but this is the Valentine thread. I have always thought the Valentine/Piper dog collar match was one of the better blood feud matches I have seen. The Garvin series is pretty good and served as my first exposure to the awesomeness that is Ron Garvin. I have never gotten around to watching Valentine/Santana. I have seen the '84 Backlund match and liked it, but have never seen the '79 match everyone hypes. He seems like one tough hombre and a wrestler I would enjoy as long as he is opposed to someone colorful like a Roddy Piper. They were really trying to capitalize on Kung-Fu with Steamboat's character in the WWF because everyone needs a gimmick. Mean Gene drops the term Jiu-jitsu, I didnt think that was popular until the rise of the Gracies and UFC in the early 90s. The kung-fu shit makes this match really jarring as neither guy seems to understand how to work it into the match. I liked the sumo slaps though. Valentine looked great on offense and followed up logically on his transition onto offense. The nice thing about the Hammer when watching a copious amount of 80s WWF is his strikes stand out more than the relatively weak shots most WWF guys give each other. I knew what they going for with Steamboat on the outside, but it seemed like Steamboat was holding himself up against apron with a blank stare for way too long. The slugfest was the best part, but that was quick. The finish was decent. I expected a lot better, but thought Valentine was the better of the two. It never got out of first gear and I have seen a lot better offensive performances out of Steamboat. Valentine stands out in 80s WWF, but I am still waiting to find that all-time classic. I would hazard a guess that gem is either '79 Backlund or within the Tito series. Decisions, decisions, stick with Steamboat and watch Steamboat/Jake or go Valentine/Tito.
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Watched the Texas Death Match from '83 with just the context from the Muraco promo. They seemed to be going for a Backlund snapping 10 years early. I liked the energy early from Backlund and I agree that headlock work was for the most part really well done. I thought it was a very good match, but didn't feel like a Texas Death match. It was like the bare minimum of violence was delivered. It felt more like a really good part of a feud rather than the blowoff. The best part was by far the finishing sequence. Everything after the gorilla press slam, felt so physical and tough that each guy was working so hard to win the match. The German suplex felt like Backlund was actually lifting up Muraco, mostly because I think Muraco fucked up his timing, and that made it seem all the more impressive. The 1981 stuff sounds way better now that I have read all about it. I will have to track it down at some point.
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Blizzard here in New England, which means a lot of time to watch wrestling! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wI0a6Hmec I have always been a sucker for a good drop toe-hold and Bock had a bitchin' one! In all seriousness, before my big push to devour massive amounts of wrestling this past year, I always liked Bock/Hennig and wanted to explore more Bock, but never had the time. I have really liked his All Japan work against the likes of Jumbo, The Funks and Billy Robinson, where he works holds ferociously. I like a good brawl as much as anyone, dont get me wrong, but I do prefer grappling. Bock is great about chaining his stuff together in logical fashion. His singles match with Funk illustrates his ability to brutalize Funk's knee, which creates a great hook for the match. After seeing this more violent side of Bockwinkel, I was looking for more match where he roughhouses more and no better place to look than Memphis. Where I found him taking on my favorite, Randy Savage. Did this make the Memphis set? It was only 11 minutes, but I thought it ruled the school. Bockwinkel starts off hot and just really unloads with the offense, granted he is playing the babyface in this match, which at first really feels weird in Memphis. I know there were some complaints of him bumping way too much for "low-card" babyfaces in TV matches so being the babyface in this match; you are guaranteed to see him be on the attack and he is really violent about it. Bockwinkel feels like more of the de facto babyface (watching this match without context) as he is using dirty tactics as standing on Savage's throat and such, but being cheered for it. Even the announcer remarks that this is the first time in five years that he has heard Bockwinkel get cheered in Memphis. Savage is his usual great self and contains his inner Memphis heel enough to the match doesn't have much of that jarring start-stop Memphis feel and instead focuses on having a balls-to-the-wall sprint. What I have always loved about Savage as a heel is that his character is has absolutely no redeeming qualities. He is one of the most low-down, good for nothing, egg-sucking dogs there ever was. He cheats, chokes and peppers with his usual array of offense (wind-up punch, double axe-handle, high knee). Who is Newman? I am not as familiar with Memphis wrestling so I have never seen him before. Besides having possibly the best drop toehold (Rotundo's is pretty nifty), Bock has hands-down the best knee lift in wrestling that thing is sweet. I'd put it up against Flair's reverse elbow any day of the week. The finish is a fantastic one with the manager distracting Bock, only for Savage to get the always lethal ballshot/piledriver combo for the win. All in all, I was expecting a clipped up match with no finish and instead I got an action-packed, violent confrontation between two guys I regard as the best of all time.
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[1990-09-14-NJPW] Great Muta vs Hiroshi Hase
Superstar Sleeze replied to Loss's topic in September 1990
Well there is definitely an argument to be made after this match that should have been named the Hase Scale, but I guess for whatever reason the '92 match is the more famous match. I didnt like that match as much. I thought the first 10 minutes was pretty pedestrian and they finally kicked it into second gear with the bladejob. This was a great match in terms of setting up a rematch. I watch most puro in vacuum. I try to do my best to learn the story concerning the match, but usually I am just watching matches without context. This match helped me understand the '92 match so much more. Without having seen this match, I felt Muta was more of a babyface trying to battle back against the blood-thirsty Hase ('92 match), but then I was having trouble reconciling the rest of the match with that segment. Now that I watched this match, I felt Hase was totally justified in wanting to fuck up Muta in the worst way. I guess this match is very similar to when people finally get to watch Savage/Steamboat from Toronto as it adds a lot of context that elevates the enjoyment of the rematch. I watched the '90 and '92 matches back to back and I definitely preferred the '92 match because the intensity and heat was ratcheted up due to how well the '90 match set the table. I do have some questions about the storyline in between this match and the rematch (since they are more than two years apart). I know that Muto/Chono fought Hase/Sasaki for the tag titles. I really liked that match the first time I saw it a couple months ago, but I dont remember Hase specifically targeting Muto any more so than he would Chono. My questions are did Hase/Muto(a) have matches in between the '90 and '92 matches that continued the feud? How separate are the Muto and Muta characters treated? Like is Hase just pissed Great Muta, but still respects Keiji Mutoh? Or does everyone just realize that Muto is a batshit dude and Muta/Muto are treated as one, where Muto busts Great Muta for special occasions?- 13 replies
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- NJPW
- September 14
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Ted DiBiase: brawler or technician
Superstar Sleeze replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in The Microscope
Personally I am more interested in looking at genres of matches (NWA touring champ, David vs. Goliath, King's Road) rather than the styles of the individual, but since this is the topic du jour, I thought I add what I noticed. From the very basics of wrestling I figure there is really only 4 types of moves: -Strikes -Throws (suplexes, piledrivers, slams) -Holds (side headlock, wristlock, figure-4) -Dives (Splashes, planchas etc...) I feel like a technical wrestler in the purest sense would be a Volk Han/shoot-style performer. I have not watched much lucha, but from reviews and from a bit of watching the Championship matches in Lucha tend to very well-done hold/counter-hold grappling. They would be working holds and counter-holds routinely in each match and jockeying for a win by using the science of leverage. Out of the American wrestlers I have seen, Flair is the closest to perform in this style and he only would perform in this style for the first half of each of his matches. Even a Bret Hart is hardly a technical wrestler. Off-hand besides Bret/Owen I and Bret/Backlund SStars '94, what match does Bret work hold/counter-hold for any decent amount of time. Bret worked a lot of strikes and throws throughout his matches, but he worked a very spot-oriented style of wrestling (spots that when connected often told a very coherent story), but none of the less he had his spots and those spots didn't include a single leg/back heel trip into a side-mount for a top wristlock (something that I would think would be a very technical wrestler spot). It seems the only qualification in America would be to have a submission finisher and a very capable wrestler. DiBiase was a very graceful wrestler and wasn't a slam bang sort of street fighter like One Man Gang or Big Bossman, which is probably why he got slapped with that label. He was supposed to be a thinking man's wrestler and it was supposed to add another layer to his villanry. Is it ok if we open this up to anyone? No offense to DiBiase, but I think there are some more interesting cases such as the Four Corners of Heaven. Are the Corners considered technical wrestlers? I think they abscond that style very apparently in all their matches. Their NJPW counter-parts seem to be much more adept at the mat. Yes, King's Road is more entertaining than Strong Style in my mind. I think the 90's All Japan matches feature a stunning lack of matwork, which is pretty amazing given the clip they run at and the length of the matches. Strong Style requires the opening matwork sequences before strike/throw finishes. So in my mind Hashimoto is actually better technical wrestler than Misawa. I feel like I am both crazy and a dope for thinking this so I want to know what people think. To add genres just to throw it out there: -Strikes- Brawlers - Lawler, Hansen - Throws - Power wrestlers - Four Corners (Strikes were a crucial component)/American Wrestlers - Holds - Shoot-style/El Dandy/Ric Flair - Dives - Lucha/Indy/Crusierweight Hardly any artist fits neatly into any genre of music unless they innovated said genre. Every wrestler (save for some Lucha) incorporates some sort of strike. Strong Style focuses on strikes/holds, Kings Road on Strikes/Throws, NWA Touring is Strikes/Throws/Holds. -
Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3
Superstar Sleeze replied to Loss's topic in Megathread archive
Also from Twitter, this time from Rip Rogers' feed, he describing taking a dump as an "Ole", which got a big laugh out of me. -
Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3
Superstar Sleeze replied to Loss's topic in Megathread archive
That'd actually be a cool concept if it was better organized & not on facebook Yeah, it's not perfect. Maybe we could adapt the idea for a thread here or something. Weirdly enough, Online Onslaught is running one as we speak, the two seemed unconnected. I have been voting, but there is a strong WWE bias. With many "knowledgeable" voters not knowing who Tenryu or Hashimoto were and Michaels & Angle heavy favorites to take the whole thing. My favorite thread so far was debating the merits of Sandman vs Tommy Dreamer. I thought it was Sandman in a walk, but Dreamer squashed him like 39-2, but it was a fun thread. Explaining to a bunch of indy wankers that KENTA/Naomichi Marufuji are not the end all be all of puroresu was not as fun. The best part of the first round is usually those paired have a connection and the guy usually tries to find a humorous connection. His masterpiece so far is Chris Benoit vs Brain Damage. -
A Survey Of TNA's Greatest Matches
Superstar Sleeze replied to Superstar Sleeze's topic in Pro Wrestling
Match reminded me a whole lot of a Bigelow/Taz match from ECW. Really good atmosphere, with both guys feeding off of it to some extent and busting out really insane/impressive spots. The crowd brawling was so obviously being done to set up the big spot with the dropkick that it was kind of ridiculous, but it was such a nutty spot I didn't really mind it. I thought Sting put fourth a lot of effort, but to me Joe was clearly the better guy in the match as his offense looked a lot better and his mannerisms really carried the day at times. The spot where both guys blow off the execution of their own finish was pretty silly, but also in keeping with Taz/Bammer theme. Finish sucked, but was not as bad as I remembered to be honest. Very much worth watching. Thanks for the recommendations so far. To address some of them, there are actually 4 PPV AJ/Joe/Daniels triple threat matches. The Unbreakable one gets the most hype, but I think the Against All Odds one is a step above because of Daniels' performance as a sympathetic babyface due to the concussion angle. The Destination X Ultimate X match between the three is pretty good, but up to the level of the best two. What I liked the most about was the ability for Daniels to get his big win as per the storyline without having to sacrifice Joe's streak. Not to get into fantasy booking, but I think a Daniels singles victory over Joe at Slammiversary was the way to capitalize on the heat of that angle. I didnt know Abyss/Sabu barbed wire was considered a classic. I will have to track that one down. Joe/Daniels Final Resolution was a great angle that was ruined by the fans. The match up until the finish was pretty pedestrian stuff in terms of structure and storyline. Things got red hot once Joe attempted to basically end Daniels' career. Instead of emotional outcry of support from the fans for Daniels against this sadistic beast, they chant "One More Time!" after Joe hits a musclebuster on a chair. The Impact match was really well-done and felt like an old-school match with the typical X-Division moves. Thus everything had way more heat on it. I was wondering what Sting matches in TNA would be worth watching. I planned on just the Bound For Glory Ones: Jarrett, Angle, and Joe so if there are any others, let me know. I am definitely looking forward to Angle/Jarrett because I remember the hype, but I didn't bother seeking them out at the time because I was tired of both of them. Having watched all the AJ/Joe/Daniels stuff up to the point of April 2006, I am really excited about the AJ/Daniels tag team. I feel like Daniels suffers from Brian Pillman syndrome. Where as a character and on promos, he is more interesting as a heel, but he wrestles way better as a babyface. Is there anything from Christian that is really good? For some reason, I feel Christian/Abyss could be really good. -
It feels each promotion has a canon of all-time great matches that feels almost mandatory to see in order for you to truly understand the promotion. WWE has Hart/Austin, Michaels/Foley, Savage/Steamboat etc... NWA/WCW has Flair/Steamboat, Flair/Funk and Sting/Vader etc... All Japan has 6/3/94, 6/9/95, 1/20/97 among others. Throughout the history of TNA, it seems much like their fanbase and booking, their canon of great matches is in flux or ethereal. Some would chock this up to their nascent nature, but even promotions like ROH have developed a canon that fans can readily discover from sort survey of the internet (your Punk/Joe's and such). The reasons TNA doesn't have a canon is twofold. To the shock of no one, one of the reasons is that TNA is the drizzling shits of a promotions and cant develop any meaningful angles mostly due to the fact that TNA always feels like it is in reset mode until recently (the Hogan Era has at least given TNA a sense of stability). The other is that I dont feel like TNA fans don't have much of an internet presence to pimp their work. I could be wrong even though I am a long time wrestling fan, I have usually stuck to the "mainstream" wrestling sites like 411 and Online Onslaught so I dont know how well TNA is represented on the rest of the internet, but doesnt do too well on those platforms. I watch a lot of wrestling a day, but I have a hard time sticking with one promotion and while looking for something to spice things up. I was watching an episode of Impact and I was marveling and how well AJ Styles was selling the current "Im distraught because Im not getting a title shot for a year" angle during his match. Everytime I watch Impact (which is probably once a month), I always feel like I should make a point to watch more because AJ is just that good. So I went on to watch some "classic" TNA (like that even exists ), but I really couldn't find a good list of what people thought was the best. Then it dawned on me, I could do that. I could be the TNA guy that has to be a step up from being the XPW guy. For the most part, I watched all these matches when they first came out, but havent watched them since, but my tastes have changed significantly. I am not going to watch every TNA match ever because I am going to have some semblance of a life, but if it was recommended here, on 411, by Meltzer or pretty much anywhere. I will at least give it a shot if it is on youtube or in my collection. I am not about to spend money on TNA. Just for the sake of Transparency, I opened the same thread up at Online Onslaught as Firebreaker Chip (ask 14 year old me why I thought that was a good username), but they thought it was "hipster" of me to use terms such as "heat segment", "powder", "Southern" and "All Japan" when describing the matches. To paraphrase the great David Lee Roth, "I dont feel hipster." I know you guys dont like TNA much around these parts, but I think you would appreciate the analysis and effort I put into these. In addition, you all seem pretty open to revisionism so think of this same way you would think "Barbarian: Lost Worker", but instead "TNA: Lost Promotion" Matches Turning Point 2004: Tag Champions America's Most Wanted vs Triple X I first watched this in 2006 and remember thinking it was a very good match. The first half of the match is worked excellently and fuckin love how they artificially created a heat segement in tornado tag settings by using the handcuffs. That was the true genius of the match. Then they got all fuckin dumb started hitting stupid shit off the top. For no other reason, then because they probably thought that was the only way to pop the crowd. I don't mind doing stuff off the top of the cage. Flair/Dusty did stuff off the top of the cage in 1986, but it was sensible because Flair was trying to escape Dusty, which is totally in character for Flair, who powdered in all of his matches. In this context, no one was trying to escape or hit one big bomb they were going up top for the express purpose of hitting spots. I hate when wrestling becomes an exhibition. That being said Skipper's iconic spot is still BATSHIT~! But the Tower of Doom spot blows. If they just finished the match they were working towards with the handcuffs this could have been an all-time classic. Instead, it was a disjointed match that couldnt decide if it wanted to be a Southern bloodbath or spot exhibition. Final Resolution 2005: X-Division Champion Petey Williams vs Chris Sabin vs AJ Styles in an Ultimate X Match I watched this match because it made someone's Top Ten TNA matches and I have to say I am pretty sure can write for 411 if this made your Top Ten. This is a fun spot exhibition, but it is nowhere near the best match of a promotion. What I like about above average matches is that certain things become pronounced. One of those things is how much better is AJ is at everything than your standard X-Division wrestler. He sells better, he punches better, he bumps better, he makes everything you watch count. From the iconic flip bump off the turnbuckle to actually selling his hand during the match, AJ totally outclassed these guys. Against All Odds 2005: X-Division Champion AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels Wow, way better than I remembered and a true joy to go back and watch. The opening is really well done and makes AJ looks like a million bucks. Daniels sells the arm so well even during his heat segment and puts on a clinic working over AJ's mid-section. AJ, for what is worth, not holds his ribs, but actually sells it like he is sucking air. The only time I have seen that is in Japan. AJ is fuckin good. The finish to the first fall may be one of my favorite finishes ever. AJ goes for a big bomb to polish off Daniels, but on the 450 he eats knees, which plays right into the mid-section work and Angel Wings (AJ with a full layout because he is ALL MAN~!) sees Daniels goes up 1-0 in sublime fashion. The rest of the match is well-worked and AJ times his hopes spots so well and keeps the crowd constantly heated. Im ok with AJ getting the pin in a quick rollup, but I would have liked it better done Steamboat style with a ton of desperation cradles rather than kinda out of nowhere. My main critique is that match is structured weirdly down the stretch because you have Daniels in desperation to get the last pin and AJ just trying to hang on (emphasized by his bladejob). They do the Koji Clutch and AJ is saved by the bell. I hate this because I think the babyface should be the guy doing this down the finishing stretch. Daniels needed to really heel this portion up to save it. Then of course AJ pulls it out in OT in really weird booking. It was like they wanted to protect AJ due to weak as finish in regulation, but then they cut off Daniels' balls. Classic match until last 5 minutes, which leads to believe there will be better matches. Lockdown 2005: AJ Styles vs Abyss - Number One Contender's Match HOLY FUCK, WHERE HAS THIS MATCH BEEN ALL MY LIFE??? I will be shocked if this doesnt end up in my Top 5 TNA matches of all time. This is the match that caused me to worship at the Altar of AJ in earnest. So in a card full of cage matches, what do AJ and Abyss do to ensure differentiation they spend the first half brawling outside. GENIUS! The spots AJ hits during the babyface shine are ridiculously awesome and breath-taking. It was the perfect way to establish AJ's speed as a threat to Abyss' unmitgated power. When Abyss took over with those vicious cage door shots on AJ, AJ went into Ricky Morton mode and I knew we were entering classic match territory. Once in the cage, Abyss did some great power offense and a classic Southern-style, bloodbath cage match developed with AJ timing each hope spot for maximum effect. I even liked the inclusion of thumbtacks because it played into the sadism of the match. The finish has everyone on their feet cheering for AJ. One of the better David vs Goliath type matches because AJ never tried to out power Abyss or force Abyss to look weak. AJ shined through his speed offense and wrestling a smart match. Of all the matches, I have seen so far, seek this one out! Sacrifice 2005: Samoa Joe vs AJ Styles Finals of the Super X Cup This is what I am talking in terms of non-memorable. I totally forgot this match and its circumstances. Basically, the winner gets a shot at Daniels' X-Division Title. I forgot how good 2005 Joe was. Joe was so explosive in a way that very few were. I would say on the level of a Dr. Death. Those two men are the very few who wrestle with such a lethal combination of quickness and power. This match does not touch Williams' best work because Joe doesnt always work with urgency in the match. AJ is a great pinball for Joe (an absolutely sick bump onto the floor off a kick and then slides into the announce table). Joe, for his part goes overboard much like Vader, goes a little overboard in bumping for AJ (a German suplex would have been perfect in a latter bout to pop the crowd instead it is thrown out in the first match). Also since I am in full All Japan mode, I loved the direct All Japan cosplay as Joe plays Kawada and AJ plays a great version of Misawa with a flurry of elbows. While they outright steal All Japan spots it doesn't feel like an All Japan match instead a weird mish-mash of America and Japan. This match never reaches that level, but it is a very good first installment. The finish was smart as it protected AJ and made Joe still look like a beast. The musclebuster was so fuckin sick. I would say this one the level of the Against All Odds match in that is a very good match, but not something I would put in the Top 10 of a decade (with TNA we are looking at a decade). Unbreakable 2005: X-Division Champion Christopher Daniels vs AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe I would hazard to say this is the most famous match in TNA history and is very much a product of its time period. There is a lot of excellent stuff in this match, but there is a lot of weird booking issues in this match. For my money, AJ vs Abyss is still a level above this match. Joe could be a better wrestler than AJ, but his instincts are awful. He lets people get way too much shit on him and he kills his unqiueness. You can defend letting AJ getting him into a Torture Rack because he is letting the babyface shine, but I think there are plenty ways of letting AJ shine without that. Indefensibly, he lets Daniels Death Valley Driver him. Why would you ever let a heel shine like that? In Joe's defense, he had the hardest role in the match, he had to be a heel for AJ and a babyface for Daniels. He was clearly more comfortable working with AJ. Which brings me to my next point, Daniels is a horrible heel. This match proves in my mind pretty definitively that Daniels is a step below both AJ and Joe. It isnt that much of a knock because AJ and Joe were probably the two best wrestlers in 2005 in North America. It is just Daniels is pretty good at everything, but excellent at nothing. He cant fly or bump as well as AJ and he cant be as violent as Joe. Instead of differentiating himself in an obvious fashion by cheating like a muthafucker doing anything it takes to keep his belt, he just wrestles this poor man's AJ/Joe hybrid style that does nobody any favors. He gets a heat segment that should have been Joe's. Daniels looked way too strong in this match and it was a detriment to the story. Some people turn off selling, well Daniels turns off heeling. Of course, there were some incredible sequences. The opening was pitch perfect and set up for Daniels to play a bitch boy that has to cheat (ala Flair) to keep his title, but he dropped that. I LOVE AJ's quick rollups it was a perfect way to show how AJ could be a threat to Joe. The springboard Shooting Star by AJ was sublime. The All Japan sequence from Joe/AJ ending with an amazing German by Joe was the best sequence in the match. Pretty much everything from Joe/AJ was fucking amazing. Joe had some pretty fun combinations back in the day. I miss Joe. I would say the first 20 minutes or so, I would said this was an easy Top 5 match for TNA, but the last 5 or so kinda soured me when Daniels took over the match. Why was Joe doing desperation cover? Ugh that should have been Daniels. The finish was booked so fuckin weird. I would still say it has an outside shot at Top 5 right now because how well the action was packed. AJ has the prettiest right hand of someone who debuted post-Attitude Era. Why the guy uses shivers at all is beyond me because his right hand looks great! What I liked was even though they didnt really use a heat segment in a conventional sense, it never felt like "your turn, my turn", which irks me to end when I see that. What I meant by a product of the time period is that it was very en vogue to have shades of grey wrestling matches where everyone looks good and everyone is kept strong usually at the expense of the babyface (though in this case it was Joe). I think it was the best possible match of that type and was really well-executed. I am really looking forward to the next AJ/Joe singles match from 2005! Bound For Glory 2005 - X-Division Champion AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels I like how they knew they werent going to top their previous efforts so they tried to do a totally different match by using the classic build with the side-headlocks to start. I liked how Styles kiboshed Daniels on his Stampede roll-through on an armdrag back into the headlock and how Styles punted Daniels in the ribs on a drop down. However, things never really got off the ground floor even though the first ten minutes were well-worked. The next ten or so really felt like "Let me hit my modified slam, now you hit your modified slam" there was no sense of struggle and thus zero heat. The best sequence of this period of a great fired-up AJ and Daniels' selling of it. Daniels is wrestling 8 million times better in this match and makes AJ look a lot better. I actually think this was an off night for AJ as he wasnt showing his usual level of charisma. In the last ten minutes, they start hitting their dives and everyone wakes up. They go through a nice exchange of rollups and AJ even does an All Japan no-sell off a German into a wicked lariat to really get the place rocking. The finish is a tame one as it is just the Styles Clash at the buzzer. No sense of struggle or urgency throughout this match killed the heat for me. I thought the beginning was going to go somewhere interesting, but nada. This was AJ's weakest performance all year by far. Daniels worked hard in this match, but it was not enough to get this match over the hump, a good match, but in a lot ways disappointing. Turning Point 2005 - X-Division Champion AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe Greatest AJ Styles Performance Ever? I am willing to hear arguments against, but I dont think I can be convinced. When Styles does a float-over off a Joe suplex attempt onto the apron instead of doing it fluidly he lands on the ropes to sell the exhaustion. I was in awe. Consequently instead of immediately following his forearm on the apron he sold more exhaustion before finally to trying to hit a springboard and ate a Joe powerbomb. Sublime. What I think stands out the most about this match compared to so many X-Division matches is the physicality. My biggest issue with a lot of the flippy guys is how light they work (Kofi, Morrison). This match was a fuckin war and AJ got a nice busted up lip for it. AJ did that sick bump off the apron onto the floor again and took Joe's offense like a champ. Unlike the previous match, AJ seemed game throughout the match and still made Joe work for all his moves. I loved the transition to AJ's comeback as it was Joe being overzealous and AJ having the presence of mind to back body drop outside the ring. Then he capitalized with a beautiful shooting star press dive. I love how after each move AJ was going after pins because he knew he was weak and this was his shot. It really sold the urgency, you could feel that his time was fleeting and if he didnt capitalize now everything was lost. I loved the cat and mouse game they did late in the match with AJ duckin and diving before Joe caught him in the corner with a couple bear paws. The busted lip happens here and it really had a big fight feel and that moment epitomized it. AJ follows that up with early kicks out off a wicked lariat and wicked Tiger Driver. FIGHTING SPIRIT~! The one flaw is the fact that AJ tried twice to setup Joe for moves on the top turnbuckle. The second time it led to an awkward sequence and a lame AJ powerbomb, which only existed to give AJ a way to hit the Styles Clash. It was a minor flaw. AJ goes for a victory roll, but Joe traps him in the clutch and it is Goodnight Irene for AJ. After the match, Joe beats up AJ and tries to give him a musclebuster on a chair, but Daniels saves. I liked this match a whole lot, but I think I liked AJ/Abyss a hair more, but both are neck and neck for Best TNA match ever at this point. I have no idea why the Unbreakable match is the more famous match. This match blows that match outta the water. Tremendous effort by both men, this is definitely one to watch. Maybe this would be better done in a blog because it looks clunky this way. I look forward to some feedback and of course recommendations on anything I should go see. I will be starting 2006 tomorrow.
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On the match, my favorite thing was the ref admonishing Hash using a closed fist midway through the match only for Hash to respond by chopping Yamazaki in thr throat, which both put over his desperation and the hatred in the match. I had never heard of Yamazaki before this and he seemed pretty good, but Hash looked like a total boss badass throughout match. Between this and his short contests in '89 against Zangiev and Vader, Hashimoto seems like the King of the Stiff Sprint. I am still learning about the New Japan heavies as they are definitely a dark spot, but I will say that I do like the fact they incorporate a lot of matwork. Watching a lot of All Japan, makes the heart grow fond for some chain wrestling and mat work, which is why I usually add some NWA and New Japan interspersed with my All Japan viewing.
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You know I have always been surprised that Heavy Metal did not have more of these connections (I guess we have Chris Jericho going for us). I live in a sort of a heavy metal bubble when I comes to music, but heavy metal is deeply entrenched in kayfabe. Each sub-genre has its own way of defining masculinity. If you are into glam/sleaze/hair, it is all about who could have the wildest outfits, the most outrageous solos and thus most importantly who could bang the most chicks. Thrash/Death was all about who could have the toughest, most brutal riffs and therefore be the toughest man. In power metal, it has always been about who is the most pure metal (i.e. who most sticks to the Judas Priest style of metal most correctly) and sings about things such as slaying dragons and being as tough as steel. Finally Black Metal, which is the most steeped in carny bullshit, is all about who can worship Satan the best. Black metal is my least favorite sub-genre, but I love listening to them give interviews because they are always supposed to be "shoot", but it always revolves around how Satan leads to empowerment. It is hilarious stuff listening to them work. I think that what really grunge really killed in the American Hard Rock/Heavy Metal scene was this sense of carny-ism and outrageous larger than life bullshit. Anyways, point being I always thought Heavy Metal and Wrestling went hand in hand that was why I was such a fan of both. I definitely see your point about hip hop and I never thought about that way. I LOVE that Ken Patera has been name-dropped in a song. So if anybody knows of some wrestling name-drops in heavy metal songs, give me a holler.
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[1990-01-06-NWA-Worldwide] Interview: Four Horsemen
Superstar Sleeze replied to Loss's topic in January 1990
I know I am a newbie, but could somebody do me a favor and somehow post a picture of Flair in the University of Michigan shirt as I actually go to the University of Michigan (GO BLUE!) and Flair is my favorite wrestler (two of my buddies will love this). Since I posted this in a kind of buried sub-forum, I will take the chance to re-introduce myself. I am a graduate student at the University of Michigan and I think this site and the yearbook concept is the greatest thing ever. However, I am broke as most college students are and can not afford these yearbooks. That being said I want to thank Loss and goodhelmet for putting them together and everyone commenting on them because it has helped me so much in guiding me through the myriad of wrestling matches. It is easy to get overwhelmed and these comments are really helpful in fleshing out details and organizing booking strategies in my mind. I am really interested in retro wrestling and have been exploring at best I could as youngster by reading wrestling title histories and still have my PWI Almanac from 1997. That was like my wrestling Bible as I tried to piece together wrestling history as best I could. This has of course continued thanks to youtube as I have built up a great literature of wrestling, but there is still plenty out there I have not seen and am eager to see more. This forum has been invaluable in me gaining even more insight into the tangled world of pro wrestling. My eight year old cousin's new favorite wrestler is Mascarita Sagrada, thanks Loss for pimping that match against Espectrito.- 16 replies
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[1996-01-04-NJPW-Wrestling World 1996] Nobuhiko Takada vs Keiji Muto
Superstar Sleeze replied to Loss's topic in January 1996
I dont blame you guys for clipping this match. I watched the full match and up until the Mutoh headbutts (around 10 minute mark I think) this match was boring as watch the grass grow. The beginning was just sitting in holds with Takada trying a bit harder than Mutoh to make it watchable, but seemed like both were just waiting for the finish. I commend Mutoh going for a double wristlock out of the moonsault so that Takada does not have to kick out of it that is smart protection. Watching the 1995 match first where you understand that Takada had tapped to the Figure 4 it helps build the drama towards the finish. Takada seemed to be going after any limb that was there without any rhyme or reason. The finish seemed anti-climatic. Mutoh gets the Figure 4, which is a great drama then Takada just is like now it is my turn and puts on a cross armbreaker a couple times for the win. I much preferred the October match to this.- 13 replies
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Liked this match a whole lot. What I really liked about the beginning half was how the roles felt reversed. You had Misawa wrestling more like a challenger due to his injury. He wanted to end the match early with big bombs when he got the chance. Kawada was wrestling like a champion looking to pick his spots using the eye injury to set up his offense down the line. My favorite sequence was the Kawada drop toehold -> kick to Misawa eye -> two DANGEROUSSSS Backdrop Drivers it felt so intelligent. It was a really great way to layout a match that was different in a series that ran the risk of getting stale. I felt at least after three Tiger Suplexes the end was inevitable for Kawada as he once again did not have enough in his arsenal to put away the ever-resilient Misawa. The finish was built better to me by not doing an extended Misawa comeback because this was just not any title challenge. His eye was fucked and he needed to get this over with and so he went with elbows and Tiger suplexes until he got him out of Dodge with his belts intact. In a year where you are competing with Misawa/Taue and 6/9/95 (when a match is known just by its date, you know it is a big deal like Titus O'Neil ), your match is just not going to win MOTY, but I think this is an easy number three on the year edging out Kawada/Kobashi's 60 minute broadway and Misawa/Kobashi Carny match. There is nothing to be ashamed of being AJPW #3 MOTY.
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[1995-07-24-AJPW-Summer Action Series] Kenta Kobashi vs Akira Taue
Superstar Sleeze replied to Loss's topic in July 1995
I preferred the Carnival match also. At times, I felt like it got a bit to into a Kobashi exhibition and just when I thought would become a sort of extended Kobashi squash they busted out a great apron sequence and one of the best extended sleeper sequences (4+ minutes). I hated the transition to the lengthy Kobashi control segment as it was just Kobashi being revived by an atomic drop and launching off a roundhouse kick to the gut. Taue eventually did make his comeback and the finish run was very well-done. The beginning was fun and given that I saw the video length I was excited for how fast pace the match would be. I think they delivered an exciting at times match that was sometimes marred by Kobashi just doing moves to a prone Taue. It was a fun, but flawed match at times and felt like a weird way to book your next TC challenger.- 8 replies
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- AJPW
- Summer Action Series
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I did not watch the PPV, but had been noticing over the past couple of RAWs Sheamus had been having the match of the night (Sandow, two Barrett matches). I think between the ropes, I would argue Sheamus is a top 5 worker in WWE. He has an impressive offensive arsenal that builds well on itself. His matches have a uniquely stiff quality about them (especially the Barrett RAW match) that has been lacking in WWE since I can remember. His matches do not immediately start with him taking heat, which is the most annoying about current RAW matches is the Nitro Savage formula that a lot of guys follow. I have really grown to enjoy Sheamus as a worker ever since his match against Mark Henry at Summerslam 2011. It is too bad they are neutering him with this weird happy-go-lucky character. I dont think he needs to turn heel at all. I actually think he works better as a face in the ring. His finish run is more conducive to being a face because he has so many near-fall ready spots and crowd pleasing moves. What he needs are a pair of jeans, leather jacket, some sunglasses and a book of John McClane's best one-liners. EDIT: Didnt Maddox fuck over Punk in the match he reffed? Was this supposed to be some make good? Can Maddox wrestle? I am not familiar with WWE's developmental at all.
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[1990-01-31-NJPW] Jushin Liger vs Naoki Sano
Superstar Sleeze replied to Loss's topic in January 1990
Sano delivers a beating on Liger that is usually reserved for the dude that bangs your girlfriend. I watched this back-to-back with their August 1989 match. I think that match has an incredible one-arm performance from Liger. His performance is on par with that match here and I think Sano has stepped up his game making this better of the two matches. Sano has a pretty spectacular arsenal of offense and this being the first time I have seen him I will definitely want to see more of him. Liger looks so good here between the selling of being a fucked-up mess and perfectly timing huge hope spots. I love the finish which climaxes beautifully. This is the type of hate-filled fight that I wish pervaded the juniors scene more later in the decade. I figure one of the Jumbo/Misawa matches is the pre-ordained favorite for Match of the Year this year, but I think this one has to be right up there with it.- 43 replies
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- NJPW
- January 31
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Put me on board the "Entertaining match, but not a classic" bandwagon. I guess that is problem when you have the expectations of a Triple Crown title defense on your shoulders it is classic or bust. I was glad they started on the mat as it was nice change of pace. I am a sucker for a mean drop toe-hold and Dr. Death delivered a beauty. Doc did the best "fighting through the pain" selling I think I have ever seen. Having watched a lot of New Japan juniors concurrently with All-Japan heavies, it is clear they just turn the selling on and off. Dr. Death does a good job constantly reminding the audience that his knee is fucked, but he is a gamer and there is no quit in him. There were definitely some plodding sections and I think Doc relied on the punch too much especially since how a closed fist in All-Japan is treated. The backdrop driver was super over with this crowd. The booking of that move has been fabulous up to this point. It was lackluster given the expectations, but still fun. So I know Dr. Death/Ace hang around have some killer matches with Misawa/Akiyama in 1996, but how come it seems like Doc's singles push just ends. I feel one of the problems with All-Japan as the 90s progresses is the lack of credible gaijin heavyweight talent with Hansen waning and Doc stalling. When I watched Vader's run there in the late 90s, I remember enjoying it, but it wasnt quite the same. So why kill Doc's push? Drugs? Injuries?
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I dont know too much about the All-Japan booking politics, but just from a fan perspective it seems like Baba was building Kobashi as the next babyface ace, whereas Kawada was going to be a perpetual heel interim champion. You really get the feeling that Kawada and Kobashi are equals after this match even though a scant year ago Kawada was clearly the superior wrestler in the kayfabe world. On the Flair/Luger comparison, I think it is pretty apt especially with crowd so solidly behind Kobashi it was a sensible template to use. Flair/Luger is one of my favorite series ever and I would put Wrestlewar '90 definitely ahead of this and it is close with Starrcade '88. It is a pretty good story of Kobashi's power, fighting spirit and general manliness against Kawada's ruthlessness. The chop to the throat around the 22 minute mark is what finally woke me up to this match. I would say from there until just before the final stretch they has me ensnared. I used to think Savage was the undisputed King of Selling the Knee and Flair the King of Selling Fatigue, but after all this All-Japan gorging Kawada has totally closed the gap and may have overtaken the both of them. His selling was beautiful in this. Kobashi paced his offense really well in this match. Kawada avoided the trap of dick-waving that Dr. Death seems to always indulge Kobashi in. There is a lot of fun spots in the lead up that keep this entertaining like Kawada sudden burst of chops and kicks around 40 minutes while Kobashi is sitting down or the figure-four spot or the rolling cradle. I think they were kinda booked into a corned insofar no one was going to buy into a false finish if they did not start busting out the big bombs. I actually think they did that tastefully and did not have them kicking out of a million different finishes. Also, I think they were booked into a corner concerning who should be in the lead at the sound of the final bell. Common sense dictates it should have been Kobashi attempting a million different near-falls in a race against the clock. However that makes Kawada look weak in his title defense, which why I think they ended with the Kawada in control and Kobashi running the clock looking for a draw so he can have grounds for a rematch.
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[1996-08-06-NJPW-J*Crown] Ultimo Dragon vs Great Sasuke
Superstar Sleeze replied to Loss's topic in August 1996
I think if this had a full finish I would rate it a lot more highly but I understand given that Sasuke basically powerbombed himself onto concrete that he couldnt go anymore. Still, it feels like Sasuke and Dragon feed into each other's worst behavior. The match feels like an exhibition of cool spots rather than a wrestling match. The dueling Asai Moonsaults were nifty. The story of the match seemed to be more about who can outdo each other rather than actually winning the belt. It is wrestling so I expect some level of dick waving, but this seemed excessive. It lacked that sort of competitive spirit a Liger or Ohtani bring to the table in their matches. That all being said there a lot worse things in this world than a Sasuke/Dragon exhibition because both are breath-taking on offense.- 11 replies