JaymeFuture

I wonder how much this crosses over into why they did a weaker job of building PPVs in recent years - they're too overworked and stretching themselves so thin that the fundamental things that make people want to spend money on wrestling have been forgotten. The only reason they've given anyone to subscribe to the network in the last month is Money in the Bank. Nostalgia is so strong in wrestling fans minds that not doing stuff like a "WWE Network Moment Of The Week" for every Raw, and showing an awesome angle or historic match in clipped form to tease people to get it, or the above SNME idea, is mind-boggling.

Kieran on the podcast did mention Goldberg at the end in passing but I had to cut it for time. As a blueprint in that mould, he also mentioned the Road Warriors which was pretty interesting. I'm surprised neither was mentioned on any forums, even if just as a theortical. Agree completely with the Bigelow point - I don't think they actively sought out to follow the Vader template, but in a Yoko/Bigelow comparison I can certainly understand going with Yoko for the role as top heel over Bam Bam at the time, in the sense he had a greater headliner upside between the two (and as we mentioned on the show, I think the fact Bigelow was more agile and worked quicker worked against him in the WWF, where that alowed him to be the perfect upper level utility player). I can't fathom them with the roles reversed. The point about Vader with the WWF promotional machine is a strong one too, I think that fantasy is one of the many reasons 96 was such a disappointment. WWF did have a couple of booking hiccups with Yoko (the horrible Mania IX slip up most notably), but in general terms the promotion created an amazing aura around him, using him to injure or "retire" longtime WWF fixtures like Duggan and Hogan and largely be dominant from a booking standpoint. And I think that's part of why I find Vader so impressive, in 93, as a kid like I said, with the promotional machine, the rep of being the top heel in the big leagues and killing Hogan, Yoko didn't come close to striking fear in me as much as Vader did. Just a terrifying man. As a theoretical, I wonder how Yoko could have fared if he'd had Vader's opponents? He had Taker and Luger for most of his run, whereas Vader got better performers to work with in Sting, Cactus, Dustin, etc.

Holy shit, I never knew that, that's outstanding.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the version of this match I've seen ends with Cactus being powerbombed, there's a suspicious edit, and that's the end. I remember reading in Foley's book that he actually got up from the powerbomb which he thought was awesome drama, surviving it a year to the day it hospitalised him, before Harley knocked him back down at 9 and fucked him. Though he didn't connect the dots in the book itself, I wonder if the fact they edited out him getting to his feet was the straw than broke the camel's back.

What fucked Cesaro more than anything is that once they put him with Heyman, it's like they thought "that's it, job's done", and just had him swimming around the middle with no direction or discernable goal. People were into the guy who could do freakish things and they could see was about to turn, then they put him in a heel/heel scenario with Swagger, and had him treading water with Sheamus, doing what he always did before anyway. Losing to guys firmly fixed in the midcard purgatory will NOT help.

That was 1993. Evidently Bret had a great Mania in 1994 with Owen in the opener and closing the show winning the World title in a nice throw back to the year prior. That was a "good" that is strong in my mind. Yeh it dawned on as soon as I read it back that I missed the I before the X (it was in reference to 93).

So, I'm taping another podcast later this week, and the subject for discussion is looking at the wrestling landscape in 1994, and the good, bad and ugly elements that comprised it, a fun way to do a year in review, and I figure this will be especially good here with the yearbooks breaking down different stuff. The idea being that out of everything that happened on a worldwide basis in this year, what ONE thing epitomises each for you personally (if you had to choose a match, promo, angle, feud, theme or company that summed each up), and why? For example, if we were talking 93, we could say: The Good - Kobashi Vs. Hansen matches The Bad - Hogan plunger raping Bret at Mania IX The Ugly - Big Sky, Charlie Norris, Shockmaster, Equaliser and others stinking up WCW. Apply for 1994, and please go into as much depth on why things were the best or the worst as you'd like. As always I'll read the feedback and credit the fine folks who do.

"For Fuck's Sake, Steve, it's an upper body business...."

The women's debate on the third podcast was a total point-counterpoint (and a passionate one on both sides), a stubborn point of view and a fair but critical one against a staunch supporter. The Yoko opinion is mine and mine alone (two of the others disagreed with me to varying degrees) - I thought he was efficient in his role and could play the big man very well, a lot like Earthquake in that sense. Don't think I called him a "horrible worker", in fact near the end of the discussion I made the Quake comparison and said everything Yoko did looked good, that he was good for his size, and wasn't an schlub like a Khali/Gonzalez/Typhoon type. But I did say that I thought he was the worst WWF champion in-ring as I couldn't recall any good matches throughout the entire course of his run, and since body of work was a lot of the debate, I don't know how he can be graded highly. Also, since his peak period was 93, and Vader was at large at the same time, I thought at the time and still do now that the greatness of Vader made Yoko look second-rate. I didn't get to make the point on the show, but the turning point surely was when his weight was getting out of control in 93 - I like his stuff as Kokina, and he looked awesome when he first came in to the WWF, the Virgil destruction at Survivor Series is glorious. But the bigger he got the less dynamic he became, and I just couldn't stand those damn three minute nerve holds.

I won't say I disagree with you there - it wasn't even a consensus opinion on the show, but unfortunately I think that kind of critical mindset does exist out there in the casual audiences opinion as well. I would like to see a greater emphasis on it given the talent they have in the wings, but I do fear they've done a lot of damage in getting people to ever take it seriously. Chase was pretty passionate in his rebuttal against the two guys who seemed eager to knock it, and I think he made some good points that they couldn't answer, especially when the Ronda Rousey comparison came up. I do want to do an entirely separate show on the subject of women's wrestling because there is tons to discuss on it.

Just to let you all know, the podcast on this subject is now up in the Publications and Podcasts subforum - http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/27746-squared-circle-gazette-radio-4-the-best-big-man-in-wrestling-history/ A lot of your comments were read on the show and discussed, so hopefully you enjoy...

Well, stemming from some great conversation started up on this forum, we take your comments (and feedback from elsewhere as well) and break down our thoughts on the best big man in the history of the business. A roundtable discussion, this podcast and the entire topic in general was a lot of fun. I hope you all enjoy - let me know what you think! Download Link: http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/ftwmvy/SCGRadio4-TheBestBigManInHistory.mp3 http://squaredcirclegazette.podbean.com/mf/web/ftwmvy/SCGRadio4-TheBestBigManInHistory.mp3 In addition, we are now on iTunes (at last), so you can subscribe to the podcast on the link in my sig.

Yeh, I'm sure this was discussed not too long ago, but to echo my thoughts - it's the equivalent of doing the same thing with Cena now, in that even if an announcer said "Who's side is Cena on!?" in such a scenario, nobody would believe they were going to turn him until they actually did, because he'd been a babyface for so long and in such a major way that it was hard to fathom ever deviating from that, even if it was suggested.

I always saw a great comedy in that Survivor Series, where Shawn does an awesome blade job and sells his ass off in a great elimination match, brilliantly worked, then Vince saunters to the ring, takes a single punch, and blood just pours out.

Apparently there was a "Chris Benoit" chant at the show yesterday. Classy stuff.

I'd make a joke about rating my girlfriend's period on the Muta scale, but I fear I'd be banned.

Plus he went over.

Russo Part 2 sounds like it has potential, but Vinnie Ru needs put down his Thomas the Tank Engine playset, or whatever it is he's doing that's making that fucking banging sound every time he tries to make a point.

Love the discussion so far, hope to do this topic justice on the podcast. In terms of playing the role of the monster heel/bully, I think Lesnar is absolutely fantastic, as good as anybody ever.

Andre is the guy I'm making a case for on the show...

So, we're taping another podcast on Wednesday, and the topic of discussion is on who the best big man in the history of the business is, and would like some feedback and suggestions from you guys to read on the show (and I'll credit you as always). I think it's an interesting topic, and the ambiguity of what constitutes a "big man" is an issue in some ways, but part of the show will be justifying our own choices in the roundtable discussion and debating the others that get suggested, so that's part and parcel of it. And hell, even what qualifies somebody as the best is subjective and an interesting part of the discussion - a guy who was agile and an amazing worker for a guy his size, or somebody who played the role to perfection and was completely effective. But yeh, who is your own personal pick, and what criteria do you personally have for that pick? Am interested in who gets picked, as I know certain sacred cows like Brody are not thought of too highly here.

Yeh, not nearly as good as the time he booked Keibler to have an abortion in a pudding match. That was some high brow shit.

Granted its been years since I've seen the match, but Taker gets an honourable mention for his gusher in the Cell match with Brock.

That's a whole podcast unto itself (which I do want to do at some point in the very near future). The one thing I didn't get into in the podcast that I think is pretty interesting is that in talking about who the next top star is going to be, is that Hogan, Austin and Rock got huge because their characters were perfect for the time, and came across as larger than life and cool as fuck. Looking at other TV shows today, in particular the major successes (Breaking Bad, Mad Men, etc), a lot of the central characters or main protagonists that click in a big way are fairly complex with dislikeable traits. Meanwhile in WWE you have the flawless babyface John Cena, and waning adult interest. But Wyatt and Ambrose are really starting to click, and fit the aforementioned bill almost to a tee. I just wonder if that can translate to mass appeal with the wrestling audience.

Would like to thank everyone who replied, the podcast discussing the different thoughts is now up in the Publications and Podcasts forum.