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Everything posted by JaymeFuture
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What was WWE's best year on PPV from 2000-2009?
JaymeFuture replied to BigBadMick's topic in Pro Wrestling
Not to mention the Angle/Michaels matches and the red-hot original One Night Stand event. -
Not a fan of Rollins breaking off either, the dynamic of the Shield was so good I think you didn't have to even do a "hard split" if you wanted to move on. I'm expecting that the whole thing will be that Rollins has been pushed for months as the "architect", in essence the cerebral assassin of the Shield, and thus has the most Trips like tendencies. Which ultimately means selfish gain, which is what was offered to him. Time will tell on this, but I'm skeptical.
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[1994-01-22-WWF-Royal Rumble] Undertaker vs Yokozuna (Casket)
JaymeFuture replied to Loss's topic in January 1994
Reading Observer's from the time, and later in the year, this pretty much killed Taker as a draw for a decent period of time if I'm not mistaken...- 31 replies
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And Bradshaw >_>
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[1996-11-17-WWF-Survivor Series] Shawn Michaels vs Sid
JaymeFuture replied to Loss's topic in November 1996
One of Sid's very best (not saying much, I know), Shawn was working so damn hard here. I was furious with the outcome at the time. I was at one those post Survivor Series UK shows in Birmingham, was looking so forward to seeing Shawn Michaels live for weeks, and the main event was Sid Vs. Faarooq. For 90 seconds. At least we got Bret Vs. Mankind.- 20 replies
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I thought this entire Sting run was absolutely putrid. So cringe-inducing every time.
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I'd say... El Torito vs. Hornswoggle - Torito favourite Triple H Randy Orton and Batista vs. Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns - Shield strong favourite John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt - A push. Bad News Barrett vs. Rob Van Dam - Barrett strong favourite Sheamus vs. Cesaro - Slight lean to Cesaro but a tough call Paige vs. Alicia Fox - Paige favourite
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Ultimately, I think it comes down to the massive disconnect between the product the audience wants and the product WWE intends to give them. It's not the fans job to do anything, it's the company's job to get in their heads, see who they like and dislike and then manipulate them accordingly. They're so far off the mark with their audience, and don't really even care. The reason this dynamic seemed to have picked up with Cena is because that's one of the first times I can think of when the company said "you know what, fuck it, we're not gonna budge". A large percentage dislike Cena, they forced him down people's throats as a face, so those people either left or just don't care as much because they realised it doesn't matter. There have always been crowds that have been a little funny - Baltimore and Philly would at times come off like heel crowds for the NWA back in the late 80s. Ronnie Garvin being booed at Starrcade. It happens. But in many of those cases it's either because the crowd just likes a heel, doesn't like the babyface, or isn't the type of product they can really care about, so they don't do anything until they get a chance to play "wrestling crowd" and do their chant, or just entertain themselves. I can't remember who it was on here who compared WWE to a Nickelodeon show, but it's a perfect comparison. This product, for 3 hours, isn't going to generate a lot of emotion organically.
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Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3
JaymeFuture replied to Loss's topic in Megathread archive
Armstrong's count is too slow and deliberate for my liking. And Pee Wee Anderson overdid the reaction selling a little too much for my liking. I remember an episode of Nitro when Anderson practically took a bump from Flair chopping somebody, and it was a step too far. Tommy Young was the perfect middle ground of a guy who was awesome at all times and added to a match rather than distracting. -
I bought Issue 3 as a kid and loved it, and bought it consistently for about 7 years. Up until I discovered the internet and Dave Meltzer and never really went back to Power Slam. I liked PS a lot in its time, it definitely had its place as a happy medium to the real story of wrestling before the Observer was known to me, but whenever I skimread a copy these days, I really don't think too much of it.
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I agree completely. Wrote a blog (in my sig) on this a few days ago, but I really think WWE should unify the belts and give it to Cena, because people have been conditioned for a long time now that unless it involves him it doesn't mean much in the big picture, and the strength it could lend to that second title, as well as the structure that gives back to the roster that badly needs it, are far bigger plusses than minuses.
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How can wrestling appeal to educated people with money?
JaymeFuture replied to Loss's topic in Pro Wrestling
Actually think we're talking about the same guy, Ryan Ward? -
[1996-08-18-WWF-Summerslam] Shawn Michaels vs Vader
JaymeFuture replied to Loss's topic in August 1996
Yeh, he was supposed to miss the elbow, changed his trajectory, landed on his feet, screams "MOVE!!" and kicks him in the head.- 16 replies
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How can wrestling appeal to educated people with money?
JaymeFuture replied to Loss's topic in Pro Wrestling
I think the biggest problem is that wrestling is especially polarising, far more than any sport or TV show. You get it for what it is and enjoy it, or it's silly fake shit and you want it off your TV. The majority of people may be happy to be outward in their fandom, and upper class highbrow people may be fans too, but they're always closet fans because they don't want the association with the humanoids, and they don't want to be the odd one out of the highbrow social circle. Even in normal life, a lot of people are kind of closet fans because they know the number of people who don't "get it" outnumber them, and even us as fans can be steadfast in our beliefs, and then you see Damian Sandow walking out as Magneto and our confidence in it as far as a defense goes straight to hell. The intricacies of the product or ringwork, even knocking off the stupid comedy, is almost inconsequencial - for that to have any impact, non-fans have to give it the time of day, and they won't. If WWE couldn't turn around advertising philosophies when Steve Austin was on the cover of fucking Rolling Stone, with a feature spot on MTV and doing monster ratings every week on Raw, appealing to that teenage generation of South-Park loving, "we're getting to be adults before we're adults" mentality in staggering numbers, it's not doing it no matter what they do. No matter how smart they try and make the show, no matter how sophisticated they make the characters, nothing will change it. Because it's all happening on the wrestling show. I understand all of that wasn't trying to appeal to the "rich educated" types, but the point is, if cold hard numbers don't talk, and genuine pop-culture impact doesn't speak volumes, gearing the product in some way to feel more acceptable to that highbrow mentality won't work, it's ingrained in their heads for life. WWE has done a hell of a lot of hard work to change perception from a company standpoint, and in the end it didn't really mean a thing in the real world. Also, I know other than David Kapoor, one of the writers in WWE is half-black, if that counts. -
Exactly, the belt would be protected because he would be, and I think not having an important second championship is a real detriment to the product right now. Cena's working in the second or third from the top PPV match right now anyway, there's no reason not to. Plus with the Grand Slam story him winning it can be pushed as a major accomplishment and not a demotion as a way to bring the belt up a notch.
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I know this idea would probably get laughed out of a creative meeting, but I really think this would be the way to go - when Lesnar wins the title, he fucks off and pisses off the world by being the megastar too good to appear all the time, Heyman is always on with the belts as has been suggested. Meanwhile, John Cena wants a new goal after the Wyatt thing ends, which is to be a Grand Slam Champion, and chases the Intercontinental Title, finally winning it. You essentially put Cena in the Nakamura role of top star being in key matches for the Intercontinental Title and elevate that as a big deal in Brock's absence. You build that long enough and the guys that beat Brock and Cena for the WWE and IC Title are getting massive wins and will feel like true elevation because both of their title runs would be different and special. I also like the idea of an "interim" title a hell of a lot, gives a focus and a natural first match back for Bryan.
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Unfortunately, NXT is not a very good environment to tell what's going to get over to a mainstream audience - they're a very easily pleased crowd just happy to be part of something they perceive to be important. Shield was a WWE creation. Bray Wyatt was a Bray Wyatt creation and the WWE have pushed him way harder than the failed examples given, even at first when Bray was a bit cold during the Kane feud. I think the Adam Rose gimmick, upon first impression, sucks. He's going to have to work hard to bring some depth to it, especially as a babyface. Bo Dallas has a bit more of a luxury in that I don't think there needs to be much focus on his NXT past at all for people to understand it - they did this kind of thing before with Kurt Angle, and as long as Bo can pull it off (inspirational talk bullshit and then whiny Michael Jackson voice asking if they're Boo-ing or Bo-ing) in a live environment, the gimmick has far more legs than Rose. Rusev is in the Umaga spot, and in Umaga's case, it took a good few months before people looked past the outdated gimmick and looked at the worker in his own context, hopefully that'll come for Rusev as he gets put in there with guys like Langston and Ziggler. Emma was doomed the second she was paired with Santino, and that awful segment debuting the dance to a dumbstruck Raw crowd was brutal viewing.
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Yeh I thought that sucked, that's not going to appeal to the masses at all. That and Dustin Rhodes & Jeff Jarrett as your "young tag team" in 2001. Quite honestly I'm not sure there have been that many Guest Bookers were I was actually all that blown away with the suggestions, the theory about why things are done is far more interesting.
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Not really. They were a little sideways about it, but nothing compared to the visceral disgust for Lesnar.
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Exactly. And besides, Brock didn't even leave for something better, he left in general because he was sick of it and wanted something new, he didn't have anything guaranteed.
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Agreed, I really do think this match is close to the perfect presentation for what they were going for. Everything that took place from start to finish in the feud is paid back to Michaels here, he is bloodied, he is killed with a chair, and even more, beaten up on top of and falls off the side of the Cell. Perfect context to debut Kane as well, to me it only gives it higher marks because just when you were so happy to see that little asshole destroyed, he gets to say he won, and Taker has his biggest threat in years to focus on instead. Just brilliant.
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What bothers me more is that a whole generation of wrestling fans saw that kind of stupid shit in WCW, the non-sensical swerve booking, and think that that's what wrestling is just because it was on a major stage. These of course, are the fans that are left, since most sane people gave up on it while it was going on.
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DiBiase is a weird one for me. I can watch his stuff now and see how a lot of what he did was the right thing at the right time, his work is very refined, nothing he does sucks. Really enjoy his Mid-South work. But as a kid, I always thought DiBiase's matches so boring, and in one of those old 88 Observers it's interesting how it's noted that the casual fan didn't buy DiBiase as a wrestler at that time, as if he really wasn't very charismatic in the ring.