MoS

Don't know if Brandi would have been much better than Red Velvet. It's not as if she is much more known than Velvet

I literally do not remember Jericho-Rock being tag champs? When was it? And HAHAHAHA MJF is the best

Yeah missing the spear was terrible camerawork

They took 5 mins to set the tables LMAO. QT had to help Velvet with it. This might have been the worst match in Dynamite history, and the worst match of the year, and all I could do was laugh uncontrollably throughout this

The way Shaq awkwardly and clumsily entered the ring just killed me LMAO. This will be a trainwreck

He might not care one iota about NXT, but he absolutely cares about crushing AEW. We have seen Vince's MO for decades now. He cares about crushing competition and/or nipping any kind of competition in the bud far more than he cares about being the biggest promotion on the planet. So he absolutely will be busting Hunter's balls about how he could not put away a pissant promotion run by skinny geeks and WWE rejects

Big E is awesome. And while I am very agnostic about Lashley being any kind of draw, I personally love him. Here's hoping that this year's Survivor Series's champ v. champ match is Big E v. Lashley. Surely good bubba @KawadaSmile would agree that's the best possible pairing of BIG MEN SLAPPING MEAT

For me personally, the hip hip hooray is not about AEW "winning" and all about "HUNTER IS NOT A BOOKING GENIUS, STOP WISHING VINCE DIES, THAT WON'T CHANGE SHIT"

Personally, while I wouldn't brag about it if I were AEW, this result pleases me cuz it destroys the narrative that Hunter is the great saviour of wrestling and if only Vince would let him take over, WWE would become great again. How this man went from being the Satan of wrestling to the Great New Hope is baffling

So which wrestling war was sadder and more pathetic, Monday Night Wars v. 2, or the Wednesday Night Wars

No, but a one-time constant bait-and-switch to ensure viewers don't leave the show in droves is effective...the first time they do it. They actually opened with lower viewers than they did last week, although that was also a post-PPV bump. Knowing WWE though, I fully expect them to think they have finally cracked the code, and start doing bait and switches at the top of each hour, and then be absolutely stunned when they plunge to further record lows. Exactly. Tweeting in character makes no sense given she called Asuka a badass champ. She probably just thought she was being funny. No one on the WWE main roster can ever be funny. Working under Vince will do that to you

I liked the match enough the first time I watched it, although that was because it was live and HHH could very well have actually ended the streak. On rewatch, I hated it. This is truly where Jerome's "self-conscious epic" took its final, most frustrating form. From the very beginning they are hitting each other with bombs and then lying around on their backs for literal minutes, doing absolutely nothing. It's the epitome of "Look at us, we are having an epic match!!" Like, you knew before the match started that this was going to be WWE's top match of the year.

Shaq and Jade might be the worst tag team in wrestling history

Meltzer This is interesting. Can you elaborate? I know a lot of people who post here were active on the internet during the Monday Night Wars. In other news, Meltzer repeated about 5 times how Shane McMahon failed "utterly, miserablycompletely" when he ran his business in China, while actually defending some stupid storyline decision to get an MBA. He genuinely had me howling with laughter.

If Miz is an unselfish top guy, then so is Christian, Big Show, Mark Henry, Edge, and about a dozen others. I believe that including them dilutes the discussion to become almost meaningless. I am talking about the absolute top-tier wrestlers, who had a sustained main event run, instead of career midcarders with occasional runs at the top.

As I said, Gorilla Monsoon was a weekly attraction, appearing on local TV and wrestling on local cards all over the territory on a weekly/monthly basis. Didn't he have a theory that the business should always be simmering, but never too hot because the latter wouldn't last forever, and the fans, having experienced it, would no longer be satisfied with the normal levels and would just leave in droves. As you said, it is a very conservative idea, but when trying to book a stable long-term entertainment product, that's not a totally bad thing. Plus he would peak the product at times, and especially in the last few years of his career, he started filling out the cards and having a lot of hot matches and angles on his shows, instead of "Bruno and everyone else."

Expect that shithead Ryan to whine even more about cancel culture, right as he tries to use lawsuits to silence victims

Vince Sr. was better at booking giants, and I don't think this is limited to Andre either. Gorilla Monsoon became a huge drawing heel for him, and this was despite appearing weekly inmost towns and monthly at MSG

I have been thinking about this for a while. I am not sure how exactly to articulate this, but I will try my best. Fans just naturally assume that Vince Jr. is a better promoter/booker than Vince Jr., but...is that true? Vince Jr. obviously has made a lot more money, and completely changed the nature of pro wrestling and made WWF the only game in town, which is by far the biggest argument in his favour. However, Vince Jr. has also presided over a product that has led to more and more fans giving up on his product for god knows how many years now. Yes, they make more money now than they have ever had, but a lot of that is due to alternative revenue streams that simply were not an option in Vince Sr.'s day. It definitely shows that Jr. is a better businessman than Jr., but that is not exactly what I am trying to explore. Money does not equal popularity. Vince Sr. ran the WWWF/WWF for 20 years, and Capitol wrestling for 10 years before that, and except for a brief period during the late 60s when he lost TV, he never saw a decline. In fact, his product grew in popularity. Yes, to an extent, he was benefited by having Bruno as the guy, who is perhaps the only major box office draw in wrestling history whose drawing power consistently increased over the course of time. But he still made a lot of money when Morales was champ, he got more sellouts per capita than ever when Graham and Backlund were world champs. Another argument can be that he had no competition while Jr. did, but I don't find that very persuasive. For one, during WWF's worst period in the mid-90s, WCW was doing crap as well. WCW's rise in popularity actually led to wrestling getting more popular, and that benefited WWF too, including in 1997 and 1998, when WCW was at its peak. Further, WWE has been the only game in town since 2001, and, with the exception of a brief period when John Cena brought on board an entire unique fanbase of women and kids, WWE has been on steadfast (and drastic) decline for 20 years. This is not even about 'choosing' between one of the two. But I find the topic interesting, and I would like to unpack their relative strengths and weaknesses, and analyse where one was better than the other and where they were worse in comparison. Honestly, I think Vince Sr. should be mentioned more when it comes to the all-time great bookers/promoters in wrestling history.

Oh yeah, the reason people prefer Twitter to PWO is cuz no one at PWO properly responds to blueminister's ridiculous and stunningly stupid arguments. Yeah, you got me there

One of the best things about Tony is that he might be a DVDVR shitposter and a PWO lurker, he might be extremely anoying due to his online presence like a lot of superonline wrestling fans are...but he doesn't bullshit us. He is not a bullshit artist. Maybe he knows that all of us wrestling nerds wouldn't buy into his hypothetical bullshitting, but that makes it even better, cuz he just never insults our intelligence. He really is one of us

Sorry, my man, but you are arguing and debating in good faith too fucking hard against someone who only seems to have entered the conversation to get 'gotcha' points and pretend he owned us internet smarks

What the everloving fuck are you saying? Do you even have a point anymore?

You have been weirdly aggressive and really annoying. First off, you are wrong about what Pedro meant. When he won the title for the first time, Bruno was burnt out and did not want to wrestle much, if at all. For the first year or so of Pedro's title reign, he only wrestled in his tiny hometown of Pittsburgh, and that was just cuz he was also a co-promoter there. Pedro was absolutely THE guy. His reign ended only cuz he did not draw as well outside of NYC as Bruno had, therefore Vince Sr. basically had to beg Bruno to come back and take the belt again. It is also weird that you claim that Pedro was not THE guy, and then say that WWE has been catering to POC audience by pushing....Mustafa Ali. Bobby Lashley, who was doing absolutely nothing until he lucked into MVP being a lifesaver. Like, Mustafa Ali is your go-to example to try and claim that WWE has tried to cater to PoCs? Also, FWIW, Joeg is not trying to target only WWE in his criticism, which is something you have claimed multiple times, in really aggressive ways as "annoying 10-year dated smark talking points" or whatever. He has frequently criticised AEW of the same thing, mentioning that all the tippy top guys there are skinny white guys in their 30s. You may not agree with it, but don't go ascribing bad faith motivations when there are none.

Completely agreed that MMA and wrestling should be split off for box office draw. Apart from the reason you correctly stated, the nature of the business of wrestling and MMA has become so different too. MMA is now a primarily PPV industry, while wrestling is a ratings business now