DMJ

Fuck this shit with a capital F. I joked earlier about how stupid the name Butch was and I stand by that joke because it is stupid, but fuck this sucks if Big E is hurt. They did him dirty on that bullshit title run and have been doing him dirty for at least 3 years. This guy had everything in being a top babyface. Charisma, over as shit, legit athletics...yeah, stick this guy back into his hamster wheel tag to bump for lower midcarders in nothing matches on hamster wheel Smackdown. Fuck off, WWE.

Fuck this shit with a capital F. I joked earlier about how stupid the name Butch was and I stand by that joke because it is stupid, but fuck this sucks if Big E is hurt. They did him dirty on that bullshit title run and have been doing him dirty for at least 3 years. This guy had everything in being a top babyface. Charisma, over as shit, legit athletics...yeah, stick this guy back into his hamster wheel tag to bump for lower midcarders in nothing matches on hamster wheel Smackdown. Fuck off, WWE.

Came here also to say...Butch? Makes me curious what Adam Cole's new name was going to be when he was put into a similar role. It feels like forever ago, but I remember seeing Dunne/Bate at NXT Chicago and being unfamiliar with both guys but thinking Dunne was the more charismatic, memorable, intense performer and that even if his size would've prevented him from being a main eventer, he had enough to be in that midcard mix against Kofi and Ziggler and Zayn, etc. (remember, this was 2017) as a regular in the midcard, a perennial IC/US Title guy that would put on great matches to fill TV time. Like, sure, Dunne isn't going to main event a WrestleMania, but Dunne vs. Sin Cara on Superstars? Yeah, that'll work for me. Now he's going to be Spike Dudley dressed as a Newsie? Eeeeesh. Not a good start for a main roster run, Pete.

Yea, I'm sure there are more than a few that people would also call great. Maybe an idea for a new thread ("Great Midcard Title Feuds Post-2000") as its completely unrelated to AEW. I personally despised the Ironman match they had and have never really been a huge Rollins fan, but Ziggler/Rollins was a well-received feud in other corners of the internet that weren't here.

Its all in the booking for me. To me, if your World Champion is a babyface, you gotta put the secondary title on a heel so I'm glad its on Scorpio. That being said, he seems colder than he should for a guy who just won a championship. I'm not sure who they should've went with instead or who I'd have preferred really aside from Miro getting it back upon his return. I'd also just add that I don't agree at all that secondary titles should've gone out once the territories died or World Champions started to appear weekly. The TV Title still felt like a big deal in the mid-to-late 90s in WCW and it made total sense that guys like Booker T, Benoit, and Alex Wright competed for it. It made less sense when Lex Luger had the title in 96'. Same for the Intercontinental Championship - though, things get a little spotty around 99' and then mostly worse from there (because, hey, WWE's booking, for the most part, gets spotty around 99' and mostly worse from there). On a side note, the last great IC Title feud that comes to mind immediately, for me at least, was probably HHH/The Rock in the summer of 97', but I could see the argument that, booked properly, we should've had even better feuds involving Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Angle, and others in 99' and 2000...only, IIRC, they had these constant title changes, things got muddied up with the European Championship still around, and you still had Chyna, D'Lo, Road Dogg and Val Venis regularly involved in the division, with none of them necessarily blending well with the Radicalz (or at least not as seamlessly as Angle did).

I'm sure it'll be a fun segment, but Austin's words make it clear that it is more of a "confrontation" than a "match." Austin is probably in my top 5 favorites ever - I think I had him at #1 on my GWE ballot even - but it really hasn't been 19 years since his last appearance. I guess this is special because there's a storyline involved as opposed to him just showing up and stunnering random heels like he did at WrestleMania 32 or the McMahons for the zillionth time (like he did at the Raw 25th Anniversary show), but a look at his wikipedia reveals he also gave stunners to AJ Styles, Byron Saxton, and the Street Profits all within the past couple years. In-person, these were all probably really fun to watch, but its hard to get excited about seeing Austin give someone a stunner on TV when, truthfully, its not really anything new.

Long overdue. I'm not sure if Vader gave a shit or not, but it would've been nice for him to go in when he was still alive just to get that pop in person at the ceremony. Does Foley do the induction?

...because only this company sees her get babyface cheers against Charlotte last year despite being "evil," sees her get babyface cheers in Saudi Arabia despite being "evil," sees her get babyface reactions every time she appears on-screen on RAW since returning, has sold a ton of merchandise with her likeness (so much so that I'm thinking Bliss' success made Wyatt more expendable), and still inexplicably believes their programming is better served by keeping her off TV until the fans learn to boo her.

We can (and should) probably open up a thread about how terrible Kane's views are, but because this is PWO, maybe we can just stick to how overrated and not good he is as a worker? Like, based just on the number of Good-to-Great matches under his belt, guys like Nash and even Braun Strowman blow Kane away. Kane's best matches were probably his tags with Danielson and maybe 1-2 matches in the 00s against Rey and Triple H (?) but aside from that, yeah, he's got like 20 years of filler on his resume. There's something to be said for consistency, but shit, at least Nash has genuinely awesome matches against Bret and Shawn and even some fun stuff in WCW and TNA (I know, I know). Just sayin', you put Kevin Nash in his prime as Danielson's teammate against the Shield and those matches probably go from 3-star to 4. Does Kane have even one singles match as good as Braun had against Roman? For a guy who was at it as long as Kane was, who was protected as long as Kane was, who had matches with all the bells and whistles as Kane had, his actual output of matches that are "must see" is what? 3? 5 tops? Yeah. Even for a guy who "wasn't supposed to have great matches," he's got less great matches than guys like Bossman who existed in a whole decade-long era of US wrestling where having "great matches" wasn't even really a thing for big men.

- Not sure who Sable's friends were in the WWE or if she even had any, but I think it'd be cool to have someone like Jacqueline Moore induct her. - I'm glad they're iinducting Taker. The longer they wait, the more his legacy is tarnished really, so, might as well do it now before its muddied up any further. Obviously, he took a heavy hit from wearing all that pro-police gear in the Last Ride documentary, but I think its also become clearer to more and more "smart" fans that Taker's reputation as being the lockeroom leader actually coincided with years of a really toxic, awful backstage environment. For a long time, it feels like people, myself included, didn't connect the dots but for all the talk of the Deadman's integrity and respect for the business and the stories of "Wrestler's Court," when you actually think about it, he was basically just King Shit in a kingdom of bullying, harassment, rampant drug abuse, politicking, and borderline sexual assault...I mean, when you hear about the veterans mocking the younger generation for only caring about video games and vegan food spots, it does make you think, like, what were vets saying a "real" wrestler should care about? Flashing your junk at stewardesses? Buying a case of Jack Daniels for the boys cuz you didn't shake a guy's hand the right way? Good riddance to that bullshit.

- I'm definitely confused as to what Cody gains by going to the WWE. I think just saying "big payday" is a larger question mark than people think. Sure, Cody will likely have a larger contract in the WWE, but that also usually means more travel, working more dates, less of a take from merch sales, less freedom to outside opportunities (no way does Cody's relationship with TBS continue after this, though, I doubt he was making much from either show he was on)...I don't know, just seems more complicated than saying the WWE is offering him some massive deal when one has to imagine the folks in WWE are aware of what he was making in AEW and what his market value is. Cody Rhodes may have raised his value since leaving the WWE, but has he doubled his value? Tripled his value? I dunno... - I've been called a conspiracy theorist for believing that Stephanie McMahon may eventually dip a toe into politics (and actually do well), but didn't Cody say he wanted to run for a Georgia Senate seat? As Kane proved (and Jesse Ventura before him and, well, Trump too, I guess), these days, a memorable run in the WWE is a faster ticket to an elected position than military service or years of community activism or any of that nonsense, right? I can see a scenario where Cody is thinking short-term with pro-wrestling and long-term with the Cody Rhodes brand and platform. Having got all the bloody brawls and actual wrestling out of his system, why not go do the thing that could make you something close to a household name? - That being said, Cody will never be at a Brock/Roman level (not that he'd need to be to win a seat in state or even federal government). Still, when he left, he wasn't even at The Miz's level, let alone Rollins level. In terms of babyface reactions, the best he can probably hope for is a KofiMania type run and I don't think that's likely because he's not as likable as Kofi Kingston or Big E or even Kevin Owens. So, the big babyface run seems like wishful thinking even in a company that desperately needs babyfaces. Its unclear where Cody fits into the hierarchy but its definitely no higher than it was AEW. Below Reigns and Brock, obviously, but I'm thinking he's not going over Rollins either and if you compare the body types, I doubt Vince views Cody as having the same stature/credibility/marketability as a Lashley or McIntyre (both of whom have also been firmly positioned as lesser than Reigns and Brock this year too). So, if Cody was sixth or seventh on the call sheet in AEW, in the WWE, he'd be closer to eight or ninth...especially when you've got guys like Edge and Goldberg hanging around *AND* a much more developed women's division. In AEW, there's no woman that can really challenge Cody's star value. In the WWE, he's a lesser star than Ronda, Becky, Charlotte, and arguably Sasha too.

Ronda's return isn't quite as out of touch as bringing Goldberg out for the umpteenth time, but it certainly lacks the same oomph that her initial debut had. The landscape has changed significantly and Ronda Rousey is no longer the name she was 2018. A cursory glance at Wikipedia or IMDB is all you need to know about her star power in 2022 compared to 2018. Is she still a big star in the world of wrestling and combat sports? Sure, she always will be... But it should be noted that Keith Lee's debut in AEW has more views on YouTube than Rousey's most recent appearances on SmackDown and its not even remotely close (about 150k for the Rousey/Charlotte video posted by WWE to over 1.8 MILLION for AEW's Keith Lee video). Even if we just compare Rousey's return at the Rumble this year, with its respectable 2.3 million views, we're still talking a considerable drop compared to the views of her 2018 debut (6.9m views for the WWE-produced video and another 4 million views for the ESPN-posted video). We can debate whether these statistic means anything at all in terms of actual dollars and cents, but the one thing that can't be argued is that Rousey is the same level of superstar she was 4 years ago. The die-hard wrestling fans who went gaga over Punk's return, Danielson's arrival in AEW, and now Keith Lee's debut collectively shrugged and moved on from Rousey's return within a week, while the news of her return barely made a blip on the radar of mainstream sports fans and media. She still brings value, obviously, but that value can no longer come from just her name. If she can deliver great/remarkable matches, I think she can "heat up" again - much like Lesnar did after ending the Streak and ragdolling Cena around, two matches that weren't technically "great" but were undoubtedly controversial/remarkable - but its not going to happen via awkward promos and beating fans over the head with accolades from 6 years ago.

I've been trying to get through the XPW book ("Bleeding Was Only Half the Job") but I'm not really loving it. The author clearly wrote it as a passion project and, I'm assuming, is not a professional journalist or author but rather a fan who took on a Herculean task of trying to tell the story of XPW through many interviews and watching/listening to countless shoot interviews and podcasts. The work put in is undeniably admirable, but, to be perfectly honest, the episode about XPW from Dark Side of the Ring is likely all anyone like me will ever need to watch and you can get through it in under an hour. The minutiae and details in the book might be interesting to an XPW fan but to someone like me, it's been a bit of a chore to get through despite being well under 100 pages.

I'm a Starks fan, but I'm not generally in favor of active wrestlers on commentary. In fact, I don't think I can think of a single guy who it worked well for (at least not in a major company?). Even Lawler suffered from it in the mid-90s. I've written about it elsewhere, but as a 10-11 year old when Lawler showed up in WWE, and not being aware of his credentials as a top guy, it seemed like he was just an old, chubby, annoying jerk who was keeping Bret Hart from regaining the WWE Championship. He never seemed like a real threat to Bret in a wrestling-sense, which is why he also constantly had other guys doing his bidding (Doink and Isaac Yankem). Lawler was a commentator/manager/wrestler in that order, a guy whose matches were comedy segments in my eyes (now, on re-watch, having learned and seen who Lawler was, I see things differently). Starks has been on commentary so much that it feels similar: a commentator first and a wrestler second. On one hand, Starks has proven to be a fine commentator (though I wouldn't say he's great), but that has come at the cost of making him feel special when he wrestles (at least to me).

Curious to learn more about this. Even if this is true and Ali turned down being a "flamboyant" (is that code for stereotypical gay?) character, I'm still Team Ali. Ali, when he was most over, was portraying himself as a serious wrestler, not a controversial Goldust character, not a Muhammad Hassan lightning rod, just Mustafa Ali, an ex-cop who has heart and wants to prove he's the best. One can say the gimmick is "colorless," that its too thin, that it has no hook...but Ali got over to a reasonable degree by just being himself. There's also a long, long list of "colorless" wrestlers with no real gimmick that got over, from Bret Hart to Triple H. It doesn't work for everyone (I think Seth Rollins has always needed a "hook"), but Ali seems to think he can do more by just being himself. If Vince doesn't think so, just release the guy and let him sink or swim on the indies. Giving him a "flamboyant" gimmick clearly isn't going to work if Ali, according to this rumor, doesn't put the effort into it anyway.

Whether its a true release or he's just simply been erased from the Mania plans, I'm the same level of shock. We can rag on Shane all day and all night, but I always figured he was somewhat untouchable in terms of having the open door to come in and do a one-off at a big show, especially considering just how thin the roster is. I also think its funny that Shane is taking the heat for this "all time terrible Rumble" when, to be fair, the issues that caused this Rumble to underwhelm have been criticisms that were widely shared weeks, if not months, before Saturday. There were obviously issues at the Rumble, but again, many were sadly predicted by the cynics here and elsewhere well before the show. For example, Big E not being treating like a real main eventer ever again? Yeah. Seems that will be the case moving forward no matter how much we hoped Day 1 wouldn't be it for him. Bobby Lashley being used as a pawn in the Lesnar/Roman feud and thus coming out of the Lesnar match weaker than he went in? Again, the cynics called it and were right.

Also, maybe I missed it in the thread, but when Dawkins came out, the apron still said Montez Ford. I know it was just a technical glitch, but, man, my heart went out to him. That was some serious "tell me I'm the Jannetty without telling me I'm the Jannetty" shit.

I didn't hate this show as much as others, though I'll admit that I didn't watch it the same way as most (in chunks, on a treadmill, then on the couch to wrap it up). - Thought Seth/Reigns was good, not great. I really don't understand any argument for Seth Rollins winning this match and would need that explained. We've seen what he can do when he's a World Champion and it is not entertaining, interesting, or "needle moving." He's a B+/A- player, very reliable to deliver good matches, sure, but c'mon, even this most recent character feels a bit forced and like a hodge-podge of stolen pieces from better, more interesting characters (a touch of Sami Zayn's histrionics, a jacket that reminds me of Marty Scurll, Barry Windham's glove). I liked him coming out in his Shield gear as a mind game, but yeah, I think my favorite Seth were those weeks when he was a zombie. Reigns has been on too much of a roll to have lost here and should've just got the clean W (with Seth maybe taking some time off until maybe a Mania return to set-up his next feud). - I watched the Becky/Doudrop match around mile 8 of a 10-mile run/jog so maybe it was the endorphins or not really being able to hear the crowd over the sound of my treadmill, but I thought it was a fine, physical match and that the most noticeable issues were that it was heel/heel and, at various times, it felt like they were both working face too. They were in a tough spot, too, because to my ears, Ronda's return got a huge reaction as did her win (after a Women's Rumble that I enjoyed from beginning to end and felt like had a good mix of "old" and "new" without needlessly dipping into the NXT 2.0 roster of complete unknowns). I dunno, I just didn't see it as some sort of huge trainwreck certain reviewers did. - Lashley/Lesnar could've been better. I think Lashley should've had more offense in the early going to make it seem like he might win with the Hurt Lock (which came outta nowhere). Lesnar got the visual pin and dominated too much for my liking. - Big E has really been done dirty over the past few months, which is sad because, at one time, I think he could've been everything the company wanted and needed in a top babyface. Tonight really highlighted a few things I hadn't noticed before, namely, his new entrance music is terrible and seemed to be completely unknown by the audience. When Kofi came out, the pop was huge and I think part of that was because people thought it was Big E. When Big E came out to his new music, it got zero reaction because I'm guessing there are many, many, many fans in attendance who, like myself, don't watch the weekly TV but would theoretically go to a big show like the Rumble. Big E's elimination was also really, really poor and treated like a non-event. I'm not sure why they had Orton be the one to do it when you could've had Big E last a bit longer and get eliminated by Lesnar. If you're going to be tossed out, you might as well be tossed out by the winner. - Damien Priest also seemed to not get as much of a spotlight as one would expect considering he seemed like he was getting a sizable push last year. Him being the dummy who Chad Gable told to go at Omos first when they all decided to gang up on him (only to get eliminated with ease) sure didn't make Priest seem very smart or tough. I was genuinely shocked he was put in that position. - Drew McIntyre wasn't gone long enough for me to care that he returned here. Again, as I don't watch the weekly TV, I didn't even know he was really out injured. - I know plenty of you old school 'rasslin' fans will tell me that Happy Corbin and Madcap Moss are doing their job well if I don't like them. Okay. But there's a line there where a heel can make you want to see him get beaten up and a performer (or pair of performers) make you glad you don't tune in weekly. When I see them, I'm glad I'm not tuning in weekly. They're not terrible workers, they're not terrible gimmicks, but, boy do I not give a single shit about them or think they should be getting the amount of "shine" they got in this match. - I would've called a weird audible and maybe had Lesnar come out at #29, decimate and eliminate a whole bunch of people (maybe everyone except Riddle?). Then, at #30, you have Orton, who got a HUGE hometown hero welcome. With Orton, Lesnar, and Riddle in the ring, you'd have had a cool dynamic and reached the same conclusion while furthering a Orton/Riddle storyline. - Ultimately, Lesnar didn't need to win this Rumble and his dominance on the show really did solidify just how much of a bigger deal he and Reigns are than anyone else. I don't understand why Lesnar, having been screwed by Reigns, wouldn't automatically be the number one contender for the WWE Championship anyway just based on that fact alone? Meanwhile, the RAW/Universal Championship scene really got buried as not only was Lashley's win complete BS but all of the potential top contenders - AJ, Big E, Orton, Riddle, Owens - got pulverized too. Hell, some of them even had to sell for Bad Bunny and Shane McMahon too*.

So there's quite a bit of buzz about Jeff Hardy possibly getting signed. I know he's not every one's cup of tea and 2020 was 2ish years ago now, but I will say this, he had a couple good matches against Sheamus and a great multi-man ladder match with AJ and Zayn that year (and in 2019, a fun Hell in a Cell match against Orton). I wouldn't call any of those "carry jobs" either, even if Hardy wasn't the best worker in any of them. There's something to be said for Jeff Hardy being almost Mysterio-level in his popularity and fan support. And while Young Bucks/Hardys has been done before, it's a match that will still draw as its never been presented in a major TV company. Plus, if you look at how guys like Dustin Rhodes and Sting have been used, Jeff Hardy is arguably an even bigger deal. Jeff having matches against Guevara, Dante Martin, or Adam Cole* is a no-brainer and, hyped properly, will get a rating. * I asterisked that just to highlight, again, how stupid the WWE is. I mean, clearly, Adam Cole is over and he was over 18 months ago. Jeff Hardy has been over for 18+ years now. According to wikipedia, they both came to/back to WWE in 2017. You had them both under contract for 4 years and you couldn't see that one guy's star power + one guy's star power could equal a match with buzz. That maybe you could leverage one guy's overness to help build your next star in 2020 or 2021? I booked matches like this when I was 9 years old playing with my toys and I was no genius. I just looked and said to myself, "What if my new Hasbro Mr. Perfect actually faced my old Hasbro Macho Man?" For all the talk about Vince's genius, decent booking isn't rocket science.

In interviews, Danhausen has been pretty clear how much he's influenced by comedy (The Simpsons) and horror and I feel like that's very apparent. Intentional or not, I see him as a bit like Gru from the Despicable Me/Minions franchise in the way he's "evil" but its so obvious to everyone but him that he isn't actually really evil. The act is also reminiscent of the "Simon" character that Kevin McDonald did on Kids in the Hall (google "Simon and Hecubus"), which, considering Danhausen's adoration of Simpsons and Conan and all the "evil" talk, I'm guessing he's very much aware of.

Yup. And it doesn't help that the "vehicle for elevating wrestlers" seems to have stopped doing that a decade ago. I mean, it did help Big E and obviously Rollins, but look at some of the other winners over this decade: Damien Sandow, Baron Corbin, Otis, Cena, Orton, Ziggler, Brock, Strowman...half were already main eventers and the other half certainly didn't need to win a briefcase to be relevant. Meanwhile, guys like Finn Balor, Nakamura, even Samoa Joe or Rusev, who maybe did actually need that big victory to really cement them or give them that extra hook with the audience could've/would've been better choices. One could pick apart any MITB winner really, but yeah, as far as being that last nudge into the main event, I'm not sure even MITB means all that much. Or maybe the glass ceiling has just been too thick for anyone to break through since the company has spent the last 3-4 years making it clear that Brock, Roman, and Goldberg are at one level, Rollins and Orton are a little below that, and everyone else is at least a couple full steps below on the pecking order.

Anyone else excited to see WALTER dance? The fact that Vince feels like he needs to re-package an established performer like him tells me that he absolutely doesn't get or give a shit about anything that happened or was accomplished by him in the past. He's moldable clay to Vince...and speaking of Clay... I hope Walter doesn't mind hearing "Somebody Call My Mama (Funk is on a Roll)" because he's likely to be hearing it or something very much like it as he walks dances down the aisle about a year from now.

- WALTER changing his name is dumb. Even if they somehow had come up with a name that wasn't also the name of a Nazi. - Kevin Nash's point about Vince rather making a million dollars with his own idea over $10 million with someone else's is why Austin Theory is a thing. I know devout NXT viewers will point to Theory's run there or in EVOLVE as some sort of big deal, but if they're being honest with themselves, they'd have to admit that EVOLVE was a third-tier "Double A" indie, a full tier below NXT. And while Theory got some exposure as part of The Way, he wasn't an NXT main eventer. Vince clearly views Theory as having potential and is giving him prominent TV time (and most recently a win over Finn Balor in 6 minutes), but its not like he has this glowing resume of getting huge reactions or unbelievable matches or segments. He certainly didn't have an NXT run as well-received as Adam Cole, Keith Lee, Andrade, O'Reilly, or any number of guys that I'd argue would've accomplished much more given the same screen time as Theory (and I say this as someone who generally doesn't think Cole is nearly as great as some make him out to be).

Not sure if this belongs here, but I've been digging that they've been playing old TNA PPVs on AXS TV. If you have a DVR and you set it to record Impact Wrestling, you will find yourself with not only the weekly episodes but random TNA PPVs from the 2010s and earlier. For example, I'm watching Destination X from 2010 right now. I'm not saying these shows are essential viewing or anything - like how essential could a Shannon Moore/Doug Williams ever be? - but its been fun for me to go back and watch these shows that I'd never seen before and the ease of access is a + if you're an old fogey like me and watch most of your wrestling on TV/On Demand. If I were WWE, I'd strongly consider pitching the idea of putting old PPVs on one of the bajillion lower tier channels that NBC or FOX own at graveyard shifts. I mean, its not going to draw a rating, but if you're WWE, this is stuff that you could license or sell to low tier cable channels (like AXS) and maybe make a small bit of coin on. Like, if AXS and Impact can somehow make money playing Hard Justice 2009 at 2 in the morning, the WWE should surely be able to make some money letting FS2 play random shit like Vengeance 2001 at the same time?

I'd put money on the idea that Vince wanted Ali to do something anti-America as I believe we're coming up on a few years since the last time someone did such a gimmick and its one of those tropes that the McMahons have routinely used. Nobody here needs a history lesson, but good for Ali for likely standing up against such a tired and, in many cases, career-crippling gimmick. I wasn't as huge into Ali as others were a couple years back, but this is another great example of WWE having a talented performer with a back story that was a slam dunk from a marketing perspective who, at one point, was getting solid reactions, and then just completely letting him die on the vine to the point that I think he'll need some rehab on the indies before a company like AEW should sign him. Then again, maybe Tony Khan being of Pakistani descent will be more open and eager to telling Ali's story and capitalizing on it with a segment of the audience that is underrepresented and underserved?