C.S.

Was this thread inspired by my comment here or is that just a coincidence? Anyway, I don't think Halloween Havoc should be so heavily discounted by the OP. At the time, in the build itself, it was always a huge fucking deal. Hogan-Warrior, DDP-Goldberg, Piper's surprise debut, etc. Whether those matches/scenarios worked out is another story entirely, but they felt massive in that four-week period used to hype the show up.

The Beefcake turn might've been a big deal for WWF fans. I actually thought it was cool as a kid...at first. The Three Faces of Fear stable with Sullivan, Beefcake, and Tenta wasn't half-bad either. The only miscalculation was thinking the match was big enough to main event Starrcade. Then again, Starrcade had become marginalized by then anyway. The yokels in Dubya See Dubya could never decide if they wanted it to be their WrestleMania. Half the time, it was an afterthought compared to Halloween Havoc, Bash at the Beach, etc.

I will keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

Great thread, and an awesome defense of Trish. Was there ever anyone in wrestling more useless than Torrie Wilson? She was a 10 - until she opened her mouth. Then she dropped down to a 1 in my eyes. Total fucking airhead with nothing going on between the ears. At least that's how she always came across to me, whether in WCW or WWE. I can't comment about her personality in real life, obviously. At least Stacy Keibler seemed nice and perky - someone who might be fun to spend time with. You can certainly understand why Clooney dated her.

The whole Muhammad Hassan angle proved once and for all that WWE is completely and utterly incapable of sophisticated, complex, grown-up television, and all of its blather about being a variety show with something for everyone is either complete bullshit or a giant delusion. The Brutus turn eventually turned out to be a "long con" when it was it revealed that The Zodiac was Hogan's spy in the Dungeon of Doom. Convoluted rubbish that made no sense, of course, but there are worse explanations out there.

Thank you, sir. And now for The Microscope we've all been waiting for...

Since someone mentioned The Warlord in the Zeamen thread, here goes... Influence: Was Batista's favorite wrestler. Batista is a former World Champion. The Warlord indirectly influenced a future WrestleMania main eventer. If we were talking about Bruno Sammartino, Terry Funk, or some other "favorite," everyone would be praising them for being influential. So, why not Warlord? He deserves his piece of the pie too! Character: Memorable physical specimen. Cool as hell ring gear. Rocked that paint on his face like few others before him. Sweet ass action figure. Underrated Speaker: No one rates him in this dept., so he's underrated. Seriously though, while he was not great, he was no worse than any other "musclehead" of the era. Powers of Pain: One of the best tag teams ever. Best tag team name, I mean. Wrestled in WCW in 1996: Did you know this? I did not know this. But it's true! According to Wikipedia: "After leaving the WWF for the independent circuit, [The Warlord] wrestled two matches in World Championship Wrestling in 1996, one of which was a tag team match where he and [The Barbarian] reunited as the masked Super Assassins." Pizza Hut: This chain's incalculable damage to professional wrestling was thought to be confined to the nitwitted former exec Jim Herd. Unfortunately, its reach of evil extends to The Warlord as well. Again, from Wiki: "The Warlord was forced to retire from wrestling due to suffering neck injuries in a car accident involving a Pizza Hut delivery van in 1996." In all seriousness, that's a tough break and it sucks. I always wondered why we never saw him during the Monday Night War era, and now I know why. I'm kinda bummed. But this story, thankfully, has a happy ending... Chikara in 2012: The hell? But it happened, and I must see the footage! Wiki: "In August 2012, Chikara announced that the Warlord would be making his debut for the promotion in the following month's 2012 King of Trios tournament, where he will reunite with the Barbarian and Meng as the 'Faces of Pain'." That sounds pretty badass!!!

Can anyone start one of these threads? Because I'd absolutely start one for The Warlord if I could. Would he make a list I'm compiling? Hell no, but I have to admit I had a soft spot for him when I was a kid.

I agree completely that Raw needs more "cliffhangers" and "hooks," but to be fair, Rhyno is not worthy of building a three-hour mystery segment around. Even those fans with no knowledge of NXT wouldn't consider him a thrilling surprise. And those who do watch NXT, of course, probably weren't surprised at all (I certainly wasn't).

I don't see the harm in discussing every possible wrestler, because you never know what compelling argument someone might have. Unfortunately, I have no such compelling argument for Mr. Z-Man.

"I DID IT FOR THE ROCK!" Seriously, I'm discussing that Rikishi heel turn with someone here now, and while it certainly had major issues, his motive - listing white champion after white champion - was somewhat understandable.

For what it's worth, the Stampede category is still showing up in my Watchlist, but there are no shows available, of course (Roku). Did anyone catch this week's Breaking Ground, and did it look - for lack of better terms - oily and out of focus? Wasn't my connection, because I tried Unfiltered for a couple of minutes as a test and it looked perfect, as did content on other streaming services.

I caught the first Rosebush and didn't get it at all. It's hot garbage. Look, I know we all like Adam Rose and want him to succeed, but this is going to go over 99% of the audience's head. It won't get over. I feel bad for him because I'm rooting for him to make it.

I don't remember GTV being Just Joe or Mean Gene. The actor Tom Green (remember him?) was another rumor, but that never happened. It was originally supposed to be for Goldust, and I can swear I remember it being called GDTV for the first week or two - or am I crazy? I think they did pay this off somehow, but for the life of me, I can't remember who was credited/blamed for being behind GTV. Did Chaz's woman have a G-name? It might've been her.

Didn't GTV reveal that his woman was setting him up?

Who moved the briefcase during that one Austin match? Was that ever resolved? (Can't remember the match, sorry, but I want to say that it involved Boss Man. Could be wildly off though.)

Looks like it... "The Stampede Wrestling episodes that WWE Network added last week have been removed. PWInsider reports that there may be rights issues with the material featuring Bret Hart. WWE owns the Stampede library but Bret has the rights to his matches that were transferred to him personally by his parents before they passed. WWE would technically need to license the footage from Hart to use it." http://wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/1207/604522/wwe-pulls-classic-promotion-due-to-bret-hart-matches/

HTM has also said that it made more sense to work with the wrestler's limitations - it would not have best served Warrior or the match to go 20 minutes, etc.

I'll defend the top rope rule...sort of. Was it an an antiquated and misguided idea? Sure. But I understand where he was coming from too. Watts wanted the rules to matter again - and in the time that I've been watching wrestling, they've never mattered more than during that brief period (for the sake of context, I started watching in late-1991). In major American promotions from 1991 to now, the rules were given the most emphasis during Watts's tenure in WCW. I can't think of another federation or era in the past two-and-a-half decades where the rules mattered more. It gave WCW such a different, sports-like feel that it still stands out in my mind as one of the coolest times in wrestling. Are there better ways to accomplish that than banning cool top rope moves? Well, yeah! But I gotta say, there's something awesome about gasping at the fact that a heel just did something as basic as going off the top rope. "Oh my God, how dare he!" It seemed so nefarious somehow. Especially if he got away with it! Pillman's babyface rebellion of going off the top rope (I think he got DQed against a jobber once) was also pretty damn novel.

When I compared Doc and Gordy's push to Goldberg, it was not my intention to imply that they got the exact same push. It was just a quick and dirty example of the whole "badass mows everyone else down" type of push both Doc/Gordy and Goldberg got. The particulars are, obviously, quite different. At the time, Doc and Gordy coming in as wrecking balls against the seemingly invincible Steiners made them look like world beaters. Fair enough. Easy to forget, because Dustin/Windham were probably rushed into that spot - likely because of whatever out of the ring stuff Gordy was dealing with.

1987 is his first big league exposure. He was new and fresh then. A clean slate. By 1995, he has tons of baggage. You can't even compare the two. Japan is its own world. What worked in NJPW would not necessarily have worked in the WWF, and vice versa. Apples and oranges completely. He was pushed as a main eventer in ECW, and all that did was devalue the title. No one bought him in that spot. Ditto for his later WCW feud with Goldberg. Hardly revisionist thinking when there's actual proof from later in his career that backs up what I'm saying.

I loved it. I'm surprised anyone didn't. But you're right, some people here weren't fans of it.

Teddy Long managed a bunch of jobbers during the Nitro era, which made no sense and was a giant waste of Long's potential. His success in the WWF a half-dozen years later is proof that WCW had no idea how to use most of the people they had.

But Williams and Gordy did eventually "get theirs" - via a shocking loss to Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes, which set in motion the chain of events for Barry's awesome heel turn and great feud with Dustin. You can't say there was no "final ending" just because the overrated Steiners weren't the recipient of it. Doc and Gordy were better than The Steiners, period (kayfabe), and then they met their match in Windham and Dustin. Seems fairly conclusive to me.

The GWF/USWA issue bothers me too. I encountered a bug on Roku. If you add a series (for example, GWF, Midsouth, etc.) to your Watchlist, it only adds one year, even if there are shows for multiple years.