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  3. AA484

    Current Lucha Talk

    Forgive me if this isn't in the correct thread but was a more complete version of the El Hijo del Santo vs. La Parka match from WLLL in Atlanta (2004?) ever released? I remember the version that made tape was pretty clipped. Thanks
  4. AA484

    Holy Grails

    Some of these have been mentioned but these are matches that got votes for Wrestling Observer MOTY that we have little to no footage of: Rhodes vs. Flair, 9/17/81 (Flair's first title win) Flair vs. Steamboat, 2/7/82 (Greensboro Coliseum) Flair vs. Backlund, 7/4/82 (Omni, WWF vs. NWA title) Flair vs. Hansen, 10/3/82 (Omni) Rose vs. Schultz, Summer of '82? (Portland Chain Match) Steamboat vs. Slater, 6/4/84 (Falls Count Anywhere, Greenville, SC) Midnight Express vs. Anderson & Blanchard, 8/26/88 (Tag Titles, Greensboro Coliseum)
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  6. AA484

    Goodhelmet's Wrestling Weekend

    Nice to see you "back," Will!
  7. AA484

    80s Wrestling Snapshot

    This is a list I'm putting together to represent a sort of "snapshot" of 80s wrestling around the world. Essentially, it's an attempt to capture a look at what was perceived to be the best matches of the time, what were the best matches at the end of the decade, and what were the best matches with a little revisionism and new footage thrown in thirty+ years later (or, the present-day). Instead of approaching this with my own personal preferences and picks in mind, I've decided to use qualifiers to select what matches to include to present an "unbiased" view. These are: Contemporary View: These are any matches that finished in the runner-up lists of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter for the decade. These capture what matches were perceived to be great at the time by Meltzer and his subscribers. "End of the Decade" View: These are matches included in Jeff Bowdren's Top 100 Matches of the Eighties list released in 1990 through the WON. Although not something compiled by "popular" vote, it still gives a good idea about what matches were thought to be great after an entire decade had passed. Substitute matches have been included where necessary. "Revisionist" View: Since the 80s project is essentially dormant, I've decided to include matches here that were listed as "recommended viewing" for wrestlers included in the top 100 of the PWO GWE list. This includes many of the top finishers in the project as well as ones from JCP and other territories where sets or voting are not complete. This part of the list would be representative of those matches which were not thought of at the time to be great (for whatever reason) or for which footage has not become readily available until recently. I'm toying with a fourth category, Historical, which would encompass the PWI Match of the Year runners-up. These include a lot of matches which are not technically great but may be included for historical purposes (Hogan/Andre, etc.). However, there is some real junk in here so I am not completely decided on whether to incorporate this into the mix. Here is 1980-1982 to give you an idea about what it will look like: Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Dynamite Kid (NJPW 2/5/1980) (GWE Recommendation) Bob Backlund vs. Ken Patera (Texas Death Match) (WWF 5/19/80) (WON MOTY, GWE Recommendation) Bruno Sammartino vs. Larry Zbyszko (Cage Match) (WWF 8/9/80) (WON MOTY Runner-Up) Roddy Piper vs. Buddy Rose (2/3 Falls) (Portland 9/13/1980) (GWE Recommendation) Nick Bockwinkel vs. Billy Robinson (AJPW 12/11/1980) (GWE Recommendation) Jerry Lawler vs. Terry Funk (No DQ) (Memphis 3/23/1981) (GWE Recommendation) Pat Patterson vs. Sgt. Slaughter (Alley Fight) (WWF 5/4/81) (WON MOTY, Bowdren Top 100, GWE Recommendation) Louisville Brawl (Memphis 5/26/81) (Bowdren Top 100) Ricky Morton & Eddie Gilbert vs. Masa Fuchi & Atsushi Onita (Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl) (Memphis 9/4/81) (Bowdren Top 100, GWE Recommendation) Dusty Rhodes vs. Ric Flair (Finish Only) (NWA 9/17/81) (WON MOTY Runner-Up) Stan Hansen vs. Andre the Giant (NJPW 9/23/1981) (GWE Recommendation) Bruiser Brody & Jimmy Snuka vs. Dory and Terry Funk (AJPW 12/13/81) (Bowdren Top 100) Bob Backlund vs. Adrian Adonis (WWF 1/18/82) (WON MOTY Runner-Up, GWE Recommendation) Giant Baba vs. Stan Hansen (AJPW 2/4/82) (GWE Recommendation) Jerry Lawler vs. Dutch Mantell (Barbed Wire Match) (Memphis 3/29/1982) (GWE Recommendation) Andre the Giant vs. Killer Khan (NJPW 4/1/82) (GWE Recommendation Buddy Rose vs. Matt Borne (2/3 Falls, Lumberjack Match) (Portland 6/12/1982) (GWE Recommendation) Bob Backlund vs. Jimmy Snuka (Cage Match) (WWF 6/28/82) (WON MOTY Runner-Up) Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid (NJPW 8/5/82) (WON MOTY, Bowdren Top 100) Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid (WWF 8/30/82) (Bowdren Top 100) Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Dory and Terry Funk (AJPW 12/13/82) (Bowdren Top 100) Ric Flair vs. Kerry Von Erich (Cage Match) (WCCW 12/25/82) (WON MOTY Runner-Up, Bowdren Top 100) "Qualified," But No Known Footage -- These are all WON MOTY runners-up Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat (Mid-Atlantic 2/7/82) Ric Flair vs. Bob Backlund (Georgia 4/7/82) Buddy Rose vs. David Schultz (Chain Match) (Portland 6/82) Ric Flair vs. Stan Hansen (Georgia 10/3/82) Potential PWI Inclusions ("Presumably" means the exact match is not known but I've made an educated guess as to which is being referred to) Dusty Rhodes vs. Bob Backlund (NJPW 5/27/80) Verne Gagne vs. Nick Bockwinkel (AWA 7/18/80) Andre the Giant vs. Hulk Hogan (WWF 8/9/80, Presumably) Andre the Giant vs. Killer Khan (WWF 4/13/81, "Ankle Break" match, No Footage) 5/2/81 is thrown around as this match's date but appears to be incorrect, especially if Rochester is the correct location. Bob Backlund vs. Don Muraco (Texas Death Match) (WWF 9/21/81, Presumably) Michael Hayes vs. Terry Gordy (Georgia 1981, Exact Date Unknown, No Footage) Nick Bockwinkel vs. Otto Wanz (AWA 8/29/82) Curiously, two matches are listed in the runner-up results. One is almost certainly the initial title change. The other is probably not the second title change as it falls outside of PWI's traditional cutoff date for voting (which is a problem in and of itself as matches in the latter half of the year get shafted by PWI). It can be assumed that the second runner-up match is one of the rematches in early September. Either way, the initial title change is the only one I know of that was filmed. Any thoughts are more than welcome. I think it gives a good global view of the wrestling scene without focusing too much on any one particular wrestler or territory. Sure, there is a lot of good stuff missing but I had to draw the line somewhere. There is also some stuff that doesn't hold up but that's part of it. I'll do the rest of the decade and the 90s and 00s in follow-up posts or topics.
  8. AA484

    Dave Meltzer stuff

    Can't forget about this one:
  9. AA484

    Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

    Any Mid-Atlantic/JCP experts out there? I'm trying to collect all available Wrestling Observer award MOTY runners-up and have run into a snag with two entries. I've seen evidence that both of these matches were televised but the extent of this was "TV Taping" listed next to the results (Clawhammer and Cawthon's site). Did JCP tape certain house shows in their bigger markets for local broadcast? If so, does footage exist for either of these matches?: Ricky Steamboat vs. Dick Slater (Falls Count Anywhere, 6/4/84 / Greenville, SC) and Midnight Express vs. Tully & Arn (8/18/88 / Greensboro, NC) [This is listed as 8/26/88 in Meltzer's award list but I'm almost certain it's the date I listed] Thanks for any help!
  10. 2000 WWF was probably their best year ringwork/storyline wise, no? Maybe not all the way up and down the card but their main event scene, midcard scene (Angle, Radicalz, Jericho, etc.), and tag scene all put on good matches and memorable storylines as well as pulling in big bucks. And all this without Austin.
  11. AA484

    PTBN GWWE Results Thread

    At least in the case of the first two, I believe it was mentioned they were left off for issues outside of the ring.
  12. AA484

    Hall of Fame 2018

    Just for the hell of it, here are the Placetobenation top 100 WWE Wrestlers of All Time and where they stand as far as the Hall of Fame goes. "Ineligible" indicates that they have been active in recent years, even though they may be officially or unofficially retired. I just used 5 years as a bench mark for "full time" performers to be eligible, similar to NBA, NFL, etc. 1. Randy Savage - IN 2. Steve Austin - IN 3. Hulk Hogan - IN 4. John Cena - OUT/ACTIVE 5. Bret Hart - IN 6. Shawn Michaels - IN 7. The Rock - OUT/INACTIVE 8. Bruno Sammartino - IN 9. The Undertaker - OUT/INACTIVE 10. Chris Jericho - OUT/ACTIVE 11. Mick Foley - IN 12. Roddy Piper - IN 13. Eddie Guerrero - IN 14. Kurt Angle - IN 15. CM Punk - OUT/INELIGIBLE 16. Brock Lesnar - OUT/ACTIVE 17. Daniel Bryan - OUT/INELIGIBLE 18. Andre the Giant - IN 19. Bob Backlund - IN 20. Rey Mysterio - OUT/ACTIVE 21. Triple H - OUT/INACTIVE 22. Owen Hart - OUT/DECEASED 23. Ric Flair - IN 24. Edge - IN 25. Mr. Perfect - IN 26. Ted DiBiase - IN 27. Jake Roberts - IN 28. Tito Santana - IN 29. Ricky Steamboat - IN 30. Greg Valentine - IN 31. Batista - OUT/INELIGIBLE 32. Jeff Hardy - OUT/ACTIVE 33. Sgt. Slaughter - IN 34. Christian - OUT/INELIGIBLE 35. AJ Styles - OUT/ACTIVE 36. Goldust - OUT/ACTIVE 37. Randy Orton - OUT/ACTIVE 38. Ultimate Warrior - IN 39. Scott Hall - IN 40. Roman Reigns - OUT/ACTIVE 41. Davey Boy Smith - OUT/DECEASED 42. Rick Rude - IN 43. Big Show - OUT/ACTIVE 44. Matt Hardy - OUT/ACTIVE 45. The Miz - OUT/ACTIVE 46. Paul Orndorff - IN 47. William Regal - OUT/INELIGIBLE 48. Chris Benoit - OUT/DECEASED/BLACKLISTED 49. Mr. McMahon - OUT/10,000% LOCK 50. Booker T - IN 51. Sean Waltman- OUT/INACTIVE 52. Big Boss Man - IN 53. Sheamus - OUT/ACTIVE 54. Billy Graham - IN 55. Rob Van Dam - OUT/INELIGIBLE 56. Rick Martel - OUT/INACTIVE 57. Mark Henry - OUT/ACTIVE 58. Cesaro - OUT/ACTIVE 59. John Bradshaw Layfield - OUT/INACTIVE 60. Kevin Nash - IN 61. Yokozuna - IN 62. Pat Patterson - IN 63. Kane - OUT/ACTIVE 64. Seth Rollins - OUT/ACTIVE 65. Iron Sheik - IN 66. Trish Stratus - IN 67. Pedro Morales - IN 68. Charlotte Flair - OUT/ACTIVE 69. Kevin Owens - OUT/ACTIVE 70. Jimmy Snuka - IN 71. Adrian Adonis - OUT/DECEASED 72. Bobby Heenan - IN 73. Dean Ambrose - OUT/ACTIVE 74. Jerry Lawler - IN 75. Sasha Banks - OUT/ACTIVE 76. Ken Patera - OUT/INACTIVE 77. Marty Jannetty - OUT/INACTIVE 78. Honky Tonk Man - OUT/INACTIVE 79. Earthquake - OUT/DECEASED 80. Don Muraco - IN 81. Dolph Ziggler - OUT/ACTIVE 82. Dynamite Kid - OUT/INACTIVE 83. Sid - OUT/INACTIVE 84. Bob Orton, Jr. - IN 85. Bam Bam Bigelow - OUT/DECEASED 86. Ivan Koloff - OUT/DECEASED 87. Kofi Kingston - OUT/ACTIVE 88. Dusty Rhodes - IN 89. Terry Funk - IN 90. Finlay - OUT/INACTIVE 91. Bill Eadie - OUT/INACTIVE 92. Lita - IN 93. Jim Duggan - IN 94. Gorilla Monsoon - IN 95. Larry Zbyszko - IN 96. Sami Zayn - OUT/ACTIVE 97. Haku - OUT/INACTIVE 98. Rikishi - IN 99. Bayley - OUT/ACTIVE 100. Asuka - OUT/ACTIVE So, here is a listing of those that are "eligible" (meaning not recently retired or active) to go in: 1. The Rock 2. The Undertaker 3. Triple H 4. Owen Hart 5. Davey Boy Smith 6. Chris Benoit 7. Mr. McMahon 8. Sean Waltman 9. Rick Martel 10. John Bradshaw Layfield 11. Adrian Adonis 12. Ken Patera 13. Marty Jannetty 14. Honky Tonk Man 15. Earthquake 16. Dynamite Kid 17. Sid 18. Bam Bam Bigelow 19. Ivan Koloff 20. Finlay 21. Bill Eadie 22. Haku
  13. AA484

    PTBN GWWE Results Thread

    Flair wasn't too high when compared with Funk and Lawler's placements, which seemed to have been based on rep as much as anything.
  14. AA484

    PTBN GWWE Results Thread

    You're right, but I wonder how many of those are Vince decisions and how many were Hunter's? Then again, I'm sure he wasn't opposed to these things so it makes it a moot point in the end. I guess when it comes down to it for me, when someone says WWE, I'm going to think of HHH quicker than Rey 99 times out of 100.
  15. AA484

    PTBN GWWE Results Thread

    I don't see where Rey is ahead of HHH when the only one of the four caveats that Rey definitively holds over him is workrate. It looks like a lot of people voted with a higher emphasis on workrate.