SomethingSavage

Gail has lit it up every single time she's been with TNA. Her first run with AMW and Planet Jarrett was super fun. She was mainly just running interference - basically everything they've got Vega doing for Almas at the moment - but she always contributed to whatever match she was involved with. Later came the Kong stuff, which yeah. Definitely holds up. Even later with her 2011 return, she was working good matches month to month with a wide variety of opponents - everyone from Mickie and Tara/Victoria to even Madison Rayne. In short? Gail's great. And yeah. She's settled down with Robert Irvine, who is a globetrotting celebrity chef. The guy's always popping up in bodybuilding mags, sites, articles, etc. He's got his own line of supplements (which isn't necessarily saying much), but his protein bars are among the highest rated in the industry. They're legit & pretty fucking delicious. Like, I'm not saying she married the guy for the tasty protein bars, but I'm not saying she didn't.

I wouldn't mind checking out some of those earlier episodes, back when the show was relevant and still story-driven with major angles. I know the wrestling itself wouldn't hold up, but it'd still be fun to relive that stuff. I know the later years had better matches, but I've got no interest in seeing Val Venis versus Stevie Richards #3085. Yes, it was a good match. No, I do not need to spend ten minutes of my free time reexamining it.

I'm not subscribing either way, so perhaps it's a moot point, but - has there been any reason given for them not to put up the older shows? That's their legacy. It's what would potentially drive new viewers and eyeballs to their product. I could easily see WWE fans of Bryan, Owens, Seth, Punk, etc. being curious enough to see where and how they started out. Seems like there would have to be a legitimate roadblock there. Why else would they leave that much money on the table?

... You *do* get that they only started pushing and marketing their women more, BECAUSE it became trendy and could therefore earn them more money, right? I mean, Stephanie didn't just arrive and instantly start "revolutionizing" shit. This became a real thing after Ronda became a huge, PROVEN box office draw elsewhere. WWE hasn't been at the forefront of any of this stuff, despite how much PR they do to get out in front of it after the fact. WWE started pushing women when they realized it could create revenue. Why on earth is anyone surprised that they'd just as easily sideswipe that if more money is being offered? Don't get me wrong. I fully understand everyone's frustrations with the hypocrisy of it all. But really, at this rate, what company have you been following all this time? You oughta know by now...

Yeah. I'm a straight male and everything, but I know PLENTY of chicks (some even non-fans) that have made remarks about Orton's looks. I attended a house show in 2009 - not long after he reemerged with the sleeved out tats - and there was a whole flock of chicks there, at this non-televised show, with signs and cleavage spilling out of their skin-tight tops in support of Orton. In 2000 fucking 9. Imagine if he had come along in the Attitude Era. This dude would've slain some strange. And you're kidding yourself if you think girls didn't love them some HBK back in the day. Plenty of biddies thought he was the bee's fleas back in 97 and even into 98, when he was just popping in all pilled to the gills to do the commissioner gig. In the broader sense, it's absolutely true that personality - and especially confidence - amplifies that attractiveness. I believe that applies to both men and women in all cases. ... How did we get here again? Oh, right. Attractive people being judged on a curve. Is that the consensus for these Iconics girls? I really don't know. I haven't seen much of their work.

Just how big were the boys' paydays for the Mae Young Classic?

If you're talking about the line itself, then Cena wouldn't be bothered. It's inoffensive and more of a shout out than anything. If you're talking about Mauro's shitty, awful references, then yeah. Cena's probably hoping he doesn't watch NXT either.

Well, I mean... Of course it's a factor. It'll never *not* be a factor. That's in life in general, but especially in entertainment.

Bingo. Bullseye. Yahtzee. 100% right on target. This is precisely what I tried saying in my previous two or three posts, but you streamlined it and made it all sound so much better. Great post.

I believe it, too. Roman came across really witty and likeable when he was on Jericho's podcast. Admittedly, I haven't heard much from him in other settings. Regarding the character evolution thing, I think it's much more relevant today than it was in the 80s. I understand your point, and I don't necessarily disagree with those characters. But it was already becoming an issue in the nineties. Flair is one of a kind. The man, the gimmick, etc is fucking money & a timeless treasure. There's a reason gangster rap is writing hooks to name drop the man just this year. Dusty ran into problems. So did Hogan. And even Piper eventually. They all became stagnant and less over with time. Of course, it's silly for me to suggest that's completely due to a lack of character evolution, but I certainly believe it played a part. In today's system, it's very much a big consideration - bigger than ever before. There's such a saturation of content and television. Roman Reigns alone has been on TV almost every week for 5+ years and has barely changed a thing. If this were a legitimate sport and he was just an athlete, okay. But when you're in the business of telling stories and creating compelling television, you can't really get away with that. There needs to be some growth, some progression, and some sort of change. The few times Roman has shown his teeth (the Hunter pummeling, the Vince knockout on Raw, and some of the Lesnar stuff) he's come across like a HAYOOOJ fan favorite. He's a fantastic baby face performer, but he's on a treadmill going nowhere if he's stuck as this character that's never allowed to change a thing. Maybe I am overemphasizing the importance of character evolution. Even so, at the very least, it's frustrating as a viewer to see.

The losses aren't helping of course, but Roman still suffers from the same ailment as the rest of the roster. His character simply never evolves. He hasn't changed one thing since the Shield went babyface back in 2014. Hell, the argument could be made that he hasn't changed at all since debuting. It's pretty much the problem fans have had with Cena for a long time. The last time his character underwent any significant change, it was when they stripped away the rapper gimmick way back in late '05. I know people were constantly crying out, campaigning, and fantasy booking for a John Cena heel turn every other month - but really, it comes down to an evolution of the character at any level. That could have been enough. It's what propelled so many people toward WCW in the Monday Night Wars. OF COURSE there were other factors involved, but make no mistake - a lot of folks (yours truly included) were tuning in to see their childhood heroes & favorites undergo a completely fresh & new evolution of their characters. Hogan was turning to the dark side. Miss Elizabeth was a cougar. And on & on. On the other side of the fence, the same thing kick-started "attitude" over in the Federation. Bret became this bitter, whiny sore loser. A huge part of the appeal in his heel turn was in watching that fall from grace, while simultaneously still nodding in agreement with a handful of the things he said. There are plenty of things to pick apart about the WWE on-screen product, and so many of them feel stale and sterile. But I can deal with arenas that all look alike. I can get past LED boards, excessive padding on ring posts, barricades, or you name it. But none of those things affect the product as much as this lack of character evolution. It hurts & hinders their progress at every level, from every angle. Whether it's a full-blown heel turn or something more subtle, that's all in the details. But there needs to be some sense of stakes. Some consequences to the actions of these individuals. Otherwise, they're just play fighting to fill time every week. And, at that rate, why would anyone bother watching? Out of habit? Out of obligation? I don't know. But these characters need to be allowed to evolve and grow. They need to change over the course of some of these major, significant wins & losses. They need to endure, to succeed, and to fail. Right now, they all simply exist as built-in video game characters or some shit. They just plug & play every week. And then the next week, maybe the players get mixed up and moved around, but it's all the same. No evolution. No character development. No growth. No sense of story-driven purpose. It's just all so POINTLESS when you sit back & take a look at it. It's like every week is Chapter 1 of the same book. You read it, but then you're never allowed to reach Chapter 2 to find out what happens to your favorite characters next. Instead, you just shut the book and start back at Page 1 of Chapter 1 all over again next week. And the next. And the next. There's no progression to these people or their stories, which is why I basically drop in to catch a couple of matches from every PPV card or every other big event and feel like I haven't missed a single episode of their television.

She is legit, she's an agent now with Impact for the knockouts matches I believe. Thanks, man. That's what I had heard. Good for her. It's great she'll be able to still contribute to the business without taking time away from her home & family life now. That being said, of course I still selfishly want to see her versus Asuka, Ronda, etc.

That's sort of too bad about Braxton bailing, but I'm not too surprised or anything. The angle ran its course, as he got the total Ellsworth treatment on his way out. Makes sense. Still, I found the deal of him proposing to almost every single Knockout in the division to be a funny spin on the male manager routine. Entertaining stuff while it lasted. Loved Callis' line on commentary about Braxton's lack of game. "Will you marry me?" is practically his opening line! Good stuff. Oh. And yeah. Big Kev in TNA was way cooler than everyone's favorite indie darlings combined. Fo' sho'. ls Gail Kim legitimately retired now? If so, that's a shame. I know she is comfortable with where she's at and what she's doing - and she's been burned by them in the past - but I can imagine her really ripping it up with some of the women in WWE at the moment. The landscape over there is far better suited for her now than it ever was before.

Absolutely agreed 100%. I also work long shifts (12-16 hours at times), and I was checking my phone at work throughout the day & night Friday to see some of the feedback. I never had any intention of watching the full show, because priorities. And I don't have that kind of time to devote to wrestling. But I wanted to see what may be worthwhile for future cherry-picking purposes. And yeah. I was blown away by some of the reactions. I get being a bit bothered by it, but come on. I've got no doubt that some folks feel offended, but some of this stuff is just too much. It's an issue in all areas of discussion lately. It's like everyone is just outraged enough to be included in the conversation, but nobody's outraged enough to actually do much of anything. It's all so greatly exaggerated to such a wild degree. SmackDown or NXT could run a hot angle this week, and everyone that expressed such strong outrage will suddenly be back on board with the company - logging into their Network and lining up for tickets to the next Takeover. I mean, you can be offended but still keep it honest and level-headed. None of it bothers me much though, so what do I know? I've stayed away from any political discussion, because that's not why I come here. But I will say this & leave it at that - this isn't a wrestling issue or a WWE policy issue. We live in a world where we collectively set a system in place that values profit over people. We value profit above all else. That is the the break in the system, and it's a universal issue spanning across all borders, all nations, and all currency. As long as that universal truth stands, shit like this will continue to happen. Period. Even if it's not WWE, you can bet someone else would step up to take the money. Besides, if it bothers these people so much, then they'd stop supporting the company that takes the payday. But they won't. I mean, everybody's an activist until it inconveniences them or it means actually changing their own habits.

I enjoyed their Mania series well enough. I'm not on twitter either. Couldn't be further removed from it if I tried. And I don't think anyone "expects" them to know about the independents or even wrestling history really. They clearly don't. But they're the ones trying to bullshit their way through it by making things up - and then behaving like children once they're found out. That's all I'm saying really. It's a trait they certainly share with Scott Keith.

Still true though. Their viewpoints on a lot of things line up. TLF have an endearing quality, thanks to their chemistry and dark sense of humor. But they basically do all the same stuff Keith does. Their hot takes were all baked sometime in the early 2000s and feel beyond outdated. They also make up shit as they go along. And - when they're called out on anything - they either ignore it or sweep it aside by pretending that they knew all along, except they were just too busy or too rushed to get the facts right. And the people (their own listeners!) who point out their errors are just big ole wrestling nerds who live in a basement. Except they're the ones going on & on for endless hours about playing with their wrestling toys at 16 years old and shit. Way cool, bruh. I mean, I know you listen to their stuff. You've heard it. Maybe they can even tell everyone all about how Luke Harper had that really hot run in ROH as the Necro Butcher again.

Oh. I absolutely agree. But that was kinda my point. The issue is with the formula and their insistence on keeping Brock on top. Everything you suggested there sounds so revitalizing for the product, but my point was that they were never gonna go there with Braun or Joe. That's all. I'm with you though. I was all in on that Joe/Brock feud last summer. By the time the Braun match rolled around, I was a little less optimistic - but I was still hopeful they'd pull the trigger. Once Rumble rolled around - hell, even way back at Survivor Series - I was dialed out and really apathetic toward anything they were gonna go with Brock anymore.

That's not what I said. And no. I can think for myself. I know what you said. I read it. I can read for myself. You suggested that all Samoans were better & more successful as heels. That's almost verbatim what Bauer offered up - numerous times - over the course of the oast few weeks. It was almost word for word, which is why I asked if that's where it came from. I asked. I didn't accuse. But anyone on earth that heard the audio would likely draw the same conclusion. It's odd. That's all. And hey. I'm in the same camp as a lot of others. I'd love to see a genuine Roman heel run. It's something I wanted to see against AJ. Then again with Seth's return. And again with Braun. Then again with Taker. And maybe later with Cena. But really, it just seems like they've dug their heels in on the issue, so it is what it is. Reigns would certainly feel fresher and hotter as a heel act right now. But suggesting that he'd be more successful as a heel due to his heritage and bloodline? That's reaching, and it's a really odd talking point in the first place. Like, no one is suggesting that Shelton Benjamin should be a top baby face because it worked for the Junkyard Dog. It's that line of thinking that had them convinced that Del Rio would automatically be the next Eddie Guerrero, or Sin Cara could just slide in as the new Rey. It's just a weird stance. I mean, OF COURSE Reigns would be better as a heel right now. But it's due to circumstances and booking. It's got nothing to do with his heritage. And Roman ain't no Rock - no matter how many people fantasy book him to be cut from the same exact cloth.

I see what you mean, but it's ultimately irrelevant. All roads were going to lead to the same spot. They've insisted on keeping Brock on top, and that's that. Brock was still going to be absent and a non-factor on television for such large gaps. What were they gonna do? Have Braun or Joe go our their and deliver 20 minutes of one-sided dialogue for months on end? That accomplishes nothing, and suddenly those once white hot feuds feel like they're dragging on pointlessly with no definitive purpose. There's no winner in that scenario. It benefits no one. It might make for a fresher feud, a better buildup, or more star ratings when they finally *do* get around to delivering one of those alternate Mania matches - but that's it. In the end, the only difference is that the same people would be lodging similar complaints - only it'd be about Braun or Joe eating the Mania loss instead of Reigns.

Was that whole "historically, all Samoans are only successful when booked as heels" talking point taken verbatim from Court Bauer? Because I know I've heard him repeat on no less than three podcasts since Mania. Either way, it's silly & simply untrue.

I agree with all the points about the Mania match ending with the wrong finish and everything, but I honestly feel like a lot of people are more upset that they called it wrong. Plenty of folks worked themselves up and created this fake narrative in their minds leading up to Mania. I don't know how or why, but there was suddenly this huge group of people talking about this epic three-year long story arc that we were all supposedly witnessing in front of us. Except we weren't. There was literally no more than five or six weeks of buildup for the thing. Before that, Roman was taking clean pinfalls for the Miz in weekly IC Title matches. Fans just created this greater narrative in their imagination - partly because I guess they were hoping the Brock run had reached its natural expiration date. But nah. Turned out it was just the match they decided to run on top of their bloated Mania card this year. Nothing more. Nothing less. And folks are kind of butthurt by the idea that their imaginary story wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Now, don't get me wrong. I understand how & why there's more to it for some of you. I realize Brock is stale, and the matches are beyond boring. I realize some of you feel like they've shortchanged Roman two or three too many times already. But really. For a lot of fans, I just think it's a matter of them calling it wrong. Maybe I'm way off base, but that's how a lot of it comes across.

I'm going to steer clear of the political stuff for the moment. Regarding Lashley being "not over enough" to challenge Brock on PPV, I have to disagree. I don't know if it's just a case of different circles or what, but Bobby's over like rover with the casual fans I talk to and hear from in my neck of the woods. Since Mania, it's basically been all about Bobby and Braun. And nobody else. No buzz on Brock, Roman, or anyone else. So yeah. Maybe Lashley isn't lighting wrestling twitter on fire or something. I wouldn't know. But, in the real world and among some of the casuals, he appears to be fresh and new again. Might as well run with that and book him up against Brock while it could still mean something. The wrestling twitter world isn't going anywhere anyway. It's proven. They literally hung around through 7 or 8 months of Jinder fucking Mahal on top. Lashley in a main event ain't chasing 'em away, I assure you.

The only thing they know how to book anymore is fucking feuds centered around records and title reigns. It started out as something novel and somewhat fresh back when Punk was doing it & drawing attention to his numbered days as champion, but it's beyond fucking redundant by now. It means nothing, because it's all they book towards up & down the whole card. For every champ. In every division. In every rivalry. Enough.

He's all the worst traits of the Lapsed Fan in written form.

The only stories they can tell anymore are about record reigns and numbers, so sure. Seems totally plausible that they'd do it.