shakla

Dave's answer was "15 years from first appearing" because it shouldn't be beneficial to drop off the ballot. I think Dave must have just looked at who was on the 2000 ballot, as Akira Taue, Curt Hennig, Mark Lewin, Blue Panther, Ken Patera and Sting all dropped off in 1998 and Sgt Slaughter did in 1999 according to that WrestlingClassics thread, so their time should be up too. However, I'm not going to point out the inconsistency to him given that the ballot will be purged more than enough already without any extra help. Was Atlantis on the first ballot in 1998? If so, he had 16 years on the ballot. :-/ He wrote me back, pretty much said the same thing. I replied, mostly about Pedro Morales moving from the modern to historical category and still having to clear 50% in the first year. Since he is modeling this after the Baseball HoF, I told him that Pedro is in a way, moving from the regular ballot to the Veteran's committee.

Sting fell off the ballot in 1998, I'm not sure when he was put back on, but he's been on at least the last 10 years or so. Dave is going with the idea that it's 15 years since you were first on the ballot. In the 15 year/50% cut listing he has, there's 4 who dropped off at some point in the 2000s. Not sure what the solution is, but I think he should have thought this out a little more.

Dave's answer was "15 years from first appearing" because it shouldn't be beneficial to drop off the ballot. I think Dave must have just looked at who was on the 2000 ballot, as Akira Taue, Curt Hennig, Mark Lewin, Blue Panther, Ken Patera and Sting all dropped off in 1998 and Sgt Slaughter did in 1999 according to that WrestlingClassics thread, so their time should be up too. However, I'm not going to point out the inconsistency to him given that the ballot will be purged more than enough already without any extra help. Was Atlantis on the first ballot in 1998? If so, he had 16 years on the ballot. :-/ Thanks for sharing that. I sent a e-mail to Dave as well with my findings. I agree that it shouldn't be too beneficial to drop off, but there have been several candidates who did drop off and were later elected. The way Dave words it, it's like they were on the ballot "in theory" and got 0% the years they were off. And yes, it appears Dave looked at the 2000 ballot/issue and looked for matching names, likely not considering who fell off. I think Pedro Morales should be removed from 15 year/50% category. Not only has he been on the ballot less than 15 years cumulatively, but he's in the historical performer candidates for the first time this year. It's a different pool of candidates and in theory, somewhat different pool of voters. He should have a few years in that category unless he drops off in the "traditional"/less than 10% of votes way. The Andersons had 52% last year and Cien Caras had 45% (plus 2 Mexico candidates were elected, possibly clearing some ballot space), so those cases may be moot. Gran Hamada was around 30%, not sure about him.

Glad you posted the ballot drop offs, my link didn't stay on for some reason.

Looking at this listing of those who dropped off the ballot (http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000499) I noticed there were a few names on this listing who are also on the 15-year rule listing for this year. Cien Caras dropped off in 2001. Pedro Morales & Gene/Ole Anderson dropped off in 2002. Gran Hamada dropped off in 2004. In the description for the potential drop-off listing, Dave says "The following candidates have been on the ballot since 2000." I take this to mean that they have been (and stayed on) each ballot since 2000. With these 4 names, since they dropped off the ballot during this period, they were not on the ballot for at least a few years. Found a 2001 ballot via a newsgroup post: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.pro-wrestling.moderated/Yp-jrKhzHsM (click top link/message if it doesn't take you there) Via a quick search, Pedro Morales fell off in 2002, was not on the 2008 ballot (per this: http://carltonprescott.proboards.com/thread/13 ). but was on the 2009 ballot. (link won't add in, should be on F4W) So if we make a generous assumption that he was on each ballot from 1998-2002 (he was on the 2001, not sure before that), there's 5, then add 2009-2014, that's 6. So he's been on 11 ballots (including this year) at the most, if everything checks out. Based on the links above, Cien Caras was not on the ballot in 2008 or 2009, so he has likely been on less ballots than Pedro. All other names in the listing besides the 4 mentioned above were on the 2001 ballot, likely were on the 2000 (or earlier) ballot and have not dropped off. Someone may want to point this out to Dave. Hopefully we can get some clarification on this rule (is it 15 years (cumulative/non-consecutive) you can be on the ballot? Do gaps when off ballot count year-wise?) and perhaps the above names can be reconsidered.

Great show, just finished it. I think you guys forgot to mention George Scott being added to the non-wrestlers section. And Ultimate Warrior and JYD have never been on the ballot. Not really surprised neither has been on yet, they were far from darlings of the WO subscribers.

On those who dropped off the ballot, here's a list compiled at wrestlingclassics: http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000499 I just started listening to the podcast Bix linked up. One of the first things brought up was if Warrior or JYD had ever been on the ballot. I assume it gets cleared up later on.

Was trying to think of someone more "in wrestling", not necessarily active, but more current and/or mainstream. Someone of a similar prestige who would qualify as a non-wrestler on the ballot. Nothing's really clicking. Wally Karbo? David Crockett? Zane Bresloff?

Not trying to justify him on the ballot, but he is a prolific author of sorts and he did say nice things about Dave in that HoF acceptance video. Who is a more modern/mainstream equivalent of Matysik? (EDIT: Thinking someone with a backstage or "non-wrestler" role in mainstream American wrestling from the last 20-25 years)

Anyone want to boldface/filter those who were added to the ballot? And did Dave add everyone he said he would on the "appearing on next year's ballot" at the end of last year's results issue? I like that there's something in place to clear out some of the deadwood candidates, think Dave could have waited a year to implement it. Give everyone a heads up, then put it in place. Glad the Warrior got on the ballot. Considering some of the modern stars that have been on (and often dropped off the first year), he's worthy of a spot. Wonder what his percentage will be, it's tricky. I think he'll stay on next year by the skin of his teeth. Having a bunch of those modern guys in that "15 year zone" could impact things across the board. How do you think Punk will do? Think he will get a solid percentage, but not sure if he's gonna be a first ballot inductee.

The jobber intro thing is a nitpick of mine. It's just odd to me that the "already in ring intros" have increased considerably ever since Raw expanded to 3 hours. People will defend the lack of intros by saying they do it to save time, when they did them sparingly in years prior with an hour less of airtime, so that doesn't totally hold up. When someone gets a jobber intro, they don't look like a star to me. It takes me back to the 90s WWF squash shows when the Iron Mike Sharpe and Reno Riggins types were "currently standing in the ring" before the real star comes out. Jobber intros often make matches more predictable. I'd like the perception of thinking a match will be competitive. If someone like Zack Ryder is already in the ring to face Rusev, that's fine by me. But I don't think upper-mid carders or those with secondary titles (even Ambrose was jobber introed during his US run) should be shown already in the ring like Barry O. There probably is a point where younger fans don't give a crap or notice this. I just want a slight touch of realism, like boxing or MMA, to present a competitive match and not have mid-carders or those with upward mobility look like prelim guys.

I know that was the case and probably still is at times, but in the leaked script, they were all written in there. When it says "DURING COMMERCIAL BREAK: Dolph Ziggler entrance and theme" and such. On the Wyatts, it's tricky ever since they "broke up" Harper/Rowan from Bray. It's an intro that would be overkill if done more than once on a show, but it's absolutely necessary when Bray comes out. I get why Harper/Rowan have their own theme (reminds me of the NWO B-Team theme, concept-wise), to give them an intro that doesn't require Bray.

In today's Meltzer update, he said Joan Rivers had interviewed a lot of wrestlers over the years on various shows, outside of her WM appearance. I can't find any, anyone know about some? Just don't see wrestlers going on her talk shows, either when she guest hosted the Tonight Show, the FOX late night show or her 90s daytime show. EDIT: Joey Styles tweeted a pic of Hogan on one of the late night shows.

I've also had a problem with the theme music recently. So I guess the question then becomes, when is it appropriate to play a wrestler's theme music? When does it become overkill? At what point does it become silly and counterproductive? The leaked script for this week's Raw (http://imgur.com/a/6CXSR) has music ques and such. For the AJ stuff I brought, there was no music cue for her skipping with the belt, and at the segment's end, it says "? Music Out ?". On Rusev coming out during the Wyatt/Show-Henry tag, it says "Rusev Interrupt and Entrance (NO MUSIC......)", thankfully. But on playing themes, I think it's something you "earn". It's a reward when you win a match. I'm not fond of themes playing for non-winners/outside participants after a post-match beatdown. There's a lot of nuances to theme playing. I know the WWE app has something to do with this, but I'm not thrilled with the increase in showing wrestlers already in the ring and forgoing their entrances on TV (or as I like to call it, "jobber intros"). Namely for workers who are still marketed as stars (even US/IC titleholders from time to time), rather than a no-name job guy that Ryback squashed early on. Not that it didn't happen from time to time on past Raws, but since expanding to 3 hours, the jobber intros have increased tenfold. You'd figure with an extra hour of time, there would be more flexibility for including intros. The first 2 matches on the last Raw had "double jobber intros" (everyone already in ring). Even Rick Fuller got regular intros on Nitro from time to time.

Glad this thread is up. A few years ago (2010?) I sent in a question to Observer Radio to the effect of "Why did Mr. Fuji win so many Worst Manager Observer awards?", just curious why Dave and/or the readership thought he was so bad. Dave gave a vague answer like "because he was the worst manager of his era" and that was that. Disappointing, perhaps I should have worded it better.

Jerry Lawler getting the ring to announce Michael Sam followed by Damien Sandow coming out dressed like him to a chorus of forced chortles from Michael Cole doesn't sound remote to me at all. I think the chance is remote since the subject matter is heavier than usual celebrity goofing. Could be a football-related skit next week tho. On the Bellas in-ring segment, I thought it was really stupid when AJ's theme played when she skipped around with the belt right after Brie shoved Nikki. Why is her theme playing? She "crashed" the segment, picks up the belt 5 seconds after Brie leaves, and her theme plays. Ugh. And Steph chews her out a few secs later anyway. Do they have to fill a quota on how many times to play her theme? I would have been alright if AJ motioned to the back or said "hit my music", but it's like she "earned" her theme playing with this. And it's not just her, it's all across the roster in all types of segments that this illogical theme playing has happened as of late.

It could very well be, especially given the "uncommon" back and forth offense in a match this short, as opposed to a Goldberg-type squash. Layla messed up getting a whip and countered by giving Rosa a very weak kick. This "match" felt like it was added at the last minute to "promote" Total Divas, with the double jobber intros and rush job. Also agree with what Dave said about AJ giving the belt back without any sort of struggle. I may go more into this segment in the Current WWE thread.

You are right, I must have been mixed up. Still don't see him being on Raw. Guess you can't blame WWE for trying to fetch some publicity. Just don't know what's in it for him if he shows up.

Michael Sam is just invited to Raw, right? To me, odds are he won't accept. He just turned pro and was a somewhat high draft pick, his NFL career isn't over just yet. Or there's the chance (remote at best) they have a "Damien Samdow" character. But I don't see that happening either.

Jane Geddes was a fairly prominent pro golfer in the 80s/90s and probably did have an administrative position with the LPGA. Seem to remember reading in the Observer that HHH was impressed by her athletic background, both on and off the course.

What about Bob & Janice Carter being billionaires? I have never seen any concrete proof of this. I don't doubt they are wealthy, but that wealthy? Everything about Panda and TNA is so private, the speculation sounds like those inaccurate celebritynetworth.com-type reports.

"Over your heads? Too bad."

I finally saw the much-talked about Eva Marie-Bailey match from NXT last week. Guess my "hopes" were too "high", I didn't think this match was one of the "worst ever". Certainly ugly (from a technical standpoint), but not anything like Jenna/Sharmell. Something is wrong about Eva's selling, she looks like she's smiling while taking holds. She looked like she might have been stiff on some of her kicks as well. Eva had a fairly competent suplex spot, at least. In related news, did anyone figure out or get fancam footage of Eva Marie winning on Raw, celebrating beind the ring, then shown mysteriously knocked down? Only guess I have is that JBL blew a dart at her during the Paige poem.

Similar to this.....why did they play Brock's theme at the end of the show? That's a good question. Kinda in line with how they increasingly play the "loser's" theme after a post-match attack. Winner's theme plays, loser attacks/music stops, loser/attacker's theme plays.

I'm tired of these distraction finishes where they play the "distractor's" theme, Titantron and lighting while the match is in progress. Thinking in a kayfabe logic, it's just unprofessional to play themes with action in the ring, unless, maybe, it's an authority figure. Case in point, Paige distracting AJ in the Eva Marie match on Raw. It would have worked fine if Paige came out sans her entrance. Although I can sorta understand playing the theme to have a distraction, but needing to keep Paige on the ramp to do the poem, still a stretch, that's more production thinking than kayfabe.