Strand Peanut

that made me chuckle! There is a nice point to be made that the AJPW shows do come across as a bit.. nostalgic? The good quality matches on top only seems to help. But it only seems to re-inforce who these wrestlers are not. Faded memories, or proteges with no identity of their own. So is NOAH just a shell promotion for NJPW ? Curious if anyone knows more of the hard biznitch on that.

I'd second that, took a while for it to get out of first gear. Didn't really feel the Kobashi/Hansen stuff while watching it.. but it's been so long since I watched any AJPW from that period. Or seen anyone try and "ape" that style directly. It seems like around 2004-06 everyone was doing it. American indies being the most guilty in my memory. Memory can be funny, so I may be off.. please chime in, anyone ? I think people were gouging themselves on NOAH maybe.. Anyways, after seeing so much copy cat stuff from that time period, I never wanted to see something along those lines again. So I was really surprised to find something that hit the right notes, let alone in AJPW! It's not perfect, certainly, but it rang true.. to me, heh I write some of this in hope that other burn-outs might take a look. Something about it.. can lead to overkill, in watching, and in execution. But once in a while, it can be a fun ride.

This match was praised when it happened, and it has continued unabated since. It's also the goto defense for a Cena Can Wrestle discussion. I'm not trying to argue taste, or single out this poster, but this match has never been under rated. Or under the radar. Sorry, I just see it often mentioned over theyears when this match comes up.. always leaves me a little puzzled.

I'd like to echo Bill, there has been some wonderful matches in AJPW recently. I've mostly been keeping up with Akiyama, as I love a grumpy vet. His match against Omori is worth watching. I also enjoyed Go vs Joe Doering much more than I thought I would. The crowd sizes may not be as large as in the past.. but the wrestlers (and the crowd!) still bring a big feeling for a lot of their mains. It's been a long time since I watched matches in this style, and it's been refreshing.

During the Monday Night Wars you could notice that WCW wrestlers talked to the hard camera but WWF wrestlers talked to each other or paced around the ring during solo promos. I never really noticed until the last few years that the wrestlers completely ignore the crowd and play to the hard camera now. Maybe they just over rely on that style of presentation now? But it's been there since the cameras showed up.

If Okada wrestles Tanahashi, and wears the IWGP belt as the winner. Okada vs. Nakamura would be the next big step ? I've been away for a few years, but a lot of this booking seems like ways to delay a feud or series between the two.

Nobody knows what happened because neither side will say anything other than non answers like "philosophical differences". Ronquillo was always pulling the key strings, Tharpe was the "president" but that was sort of like a figurehead thing because he was the lawyer and obviously has the charisma. There are a bunch of promoters who have very little confidence in Tharpe calling all of the shots. I would expect several affiliates to drop before the end of the year. Tharpe is calling for ringside mats, barricades, and some other expenditures in order to remain affiliated, and I've had one promoter tell me directly "I am not spending the money on any of that shit until Bruce produces a TV deal". I like Bruce, but I like Chris too. I'm 100% neutral. The feeling I get, at least among the Texas promoters, is most of the key ones are Ronquillo guys. And fwiw, the Ronquillo/Tharpe team really did clean up the NWA and do some great things. People not paying attention still stick to the same narratives, but the days of buying title reigns, low rent champions, sleazy affiliates, and other assorted junk ended under Ronquillo/Tharpe. Not to mention the New Japan connection. The champions under this regime have been people like Rob Conway, KES, Satoshi Kojima, Jushin Liger, Ricky Morton, etc unlike a few years ago when guys like The Sheik were buying title runs and low level indie guys were holding the other key titles. Thanks for your insight into this. Modern NWA news gets very little attention, but I'd like to echo your sentiment.. The NWA has been much better under them. Certainly had come across as more professional, and had leveraged their limited exposure quite well, I thought. Too bad about the break-up. Feels like they were just starting to get noticed for all that work. The NWA, as a concept, just so fraught with opportunities for in fighting.

Nothing says in-fighting like the N W A Anyone know more of what happened? More on Ronquillo - http://www.examiner.com/article/chris-ronquillo-quietly-leads-the-nwa-to-renewed-prominence You can trust it, a doctor wrote it.

Wrestlers have always worked the hard camera. It may be more noticeable now for any number of reasons. Watch enough wrestling, and sometimes the whole work seems to unpack it's self.. at least occasionally it seems so to me! The camera thing makes for an odd thought. Come watch our live spectacle, where we ignore you for the camera ? The reality of RAW always feels a little disconnected like that. More spectacle for the camera, less camera capturing the spectacle.

Oh man! Do you still have those?

Hi, thought I'd take the time to introduce myself. Long time lurker at many a wrestling board over the last 15 years. Wrestling was never more than just something to stop on while flipping around the dial for me. Sometimes I'd stop, watch a bit, and just keep flipping.. often I'd just move right past. I came to it later in life.. mostly thru reading about the great history of graft and con inthe USA. I suppose living in Texas when SCSA was ubiquitous probably got me interested as well. The more I dug, and the more history I've read, has only deepened my interest in the mat game. As a business, as a con, and it's transformation into the oddly unique thing it's become. With that said, I'm not a huge fan. I enjoy matches, but not fairly often. But I will watch just about anything from anywhere. Anyways, thank you all for the interesting reading, and tireless watching of footage. It's appreciated.

This thread is goofy as all get out.

Roller Derby pretty much packed it in by the mid 70's. But it was a consistent TV presence in the USA for a long time. With the advent of UHF Roller Derby had a home everywhere. Still was able to pack 50,000 in Chicago before things went belly up, as well. I don't think it'd be out of bounds to label someone from Roller Derby as very popular in that time. Also, no idea who Dave is referencing. Also doubt he would say they were the most popular female athlete in the US. But they were likely a consistent TV presence for many years, which certainly counts. Espcially at that time. That model helped make a lot of wrestlers very popular too. It may seem odd, or just anachronistic, but Roller Derby as a business had very interesting parallels to the Wrestling business at the time.

I don't think the NFL is an apt analogy. I really don't get why card placement matters in such a subjective poll? Especially when people are talking about top 100's. Granted, I waded into this, and am not overly familiar with the project's ground rules. Almost everyone has worked the mid-card in the business at some point. Going up, coming down, or staying there. And you can't ignore the power of the pencil in the business. And no one's gonna give you a top ten. I mean.. just howling into the wind. Is there no other way to frame your discussion point than this ? Feels kinda sideways.. Main event status, and money, are always part of the conversation. But just part. Wrestling fandom has proven that time and time again.

There's a reserve squad in the NFL ? I thought there was just a practice squad ? Maybe just terms, but I havn't followed the NFL closely this season and last. If it's still the practice squad.. That'd be more like TV enhacement talent. TBS Saturday Night Style. You're there to help make people better. And maybe get a spot in the battle royal / special teams, ha! Actually as a side note, I remember Bobby Beathard was kind of a genius with hiding raw talent on the practice squad back in the 70's and 80's. Keep em there cheap, have them learn and develop your way, see if they can make the squad. The massive amount of video and scouting now makes that pretty difficult to pull off. I think I'm still talking about wrestling.. Anyways, a point, for this thread was alluded to earlier. What is it ? I like talking bout card placement, but if this is just some proving ground for someone's arguement.. context would be nice.

So, what are you saying? They should never try to make a women a star at the level of the top men, because they haven't in the past? No, I'm saying America can be sold anything. But the current conditions make it hard for pro wrestling to be succesful in the USA now. Which makes it even tougher for women in pro wrestling. It's tougher for women, because women's wrestling has traditionally not been promoted well, and often considered an after thought. AJW is not a comparable to the current wrestling landscape in the USA. Successful? Sure could be, can be.. But talk like, "If they just pushed X, or promoted X better.." is not a gender related issue to me. I think it's just systematic of having one top promotion for so long. Many wrestling fans feel under served. How else could WWE annoy so many over so very many things!

I'll answer my own question.. Richter/Moolah on MTV "The Brawl To End It All." Thought it was on top, but had to check. The Lauper angle was built to lead to this match. UFC is not pro wrestling. Not sure which Tokyo Dome card you are referencing, but we're talking about the USA. I don't think the context and culture that lead to the large draw AJW cards should be ignored.. or rather the thought that somehow pro wrestling success in Japan can be re-created in the USA. AJW started in the 60's and closed doors in the early 2000's. Nothing even close to that in the history of the USA. Even in the intial TV period. Burke and Wolfe's central office during the 50's might enter the conversation. But they were not a promotion, just a booking office. And I think they mostly worked with Al Haft's promotion. Women's pro wrestling has a huge up hill climb in the USA. Sure, people don't enjoy how WWE pushes their female wrestlers, or their men either! That's a flaw that has little do with gender.

What we are waiting for is a show like Night of Champions or No Way Out being headlined by a women's match. Anyone who's hoping for that is gonna be waiting a while, and understandably so. Has that ever happened in the history of pro wrestling ? Two women headlining a men's (or even inter-gender) promotion ? Tho, granted, nothing moves the needle for wrestling in the US currently. I doubt putting two women on top, for the sake of it, would change that. And the ghost of Joshi haunting this thread is scaring me..

Anything can be succesful in America with the right smile.. and the smell of money. But what's the bar here ? Trish Stratus level of success ? Moolah ? As a side note, WWE has sunk considerable time, money, and effort into woman's wrestling over the last ten years. You can judge the results over what was spent, but it's there and consistent.

There's supposed to be more to come. Check the Lou Thesz forum at Wrestling Classics.. the folks there were involved in this footage coming to light, and more detailed information can be found there.

I think Thatcher's pretty good. But he only seems to pop up in the smallest of places. No one thinking "There's money in this guy.." ? Or am I just missing the more high profile stuff ? And by "money" let's be realistic. He's an indie wrestler.