Laz

WWF 2000 is when the booking and presentation problems of the last few years started, but Chris Kreski was at least wise enough to keep notes on who feuded with who and whatnot. There was continuity and lower card talent bumping elbows with ME talent, plus at least one great (or borderline) match every PPV. WWF 2001 is the first year Steph is the head of creative and it shows. The match quality was consistent from both homegrown talent and WCW/ECW signings, but the booking starts taking a nosedive at the end of 2000 and it just gets worse as 2001 chugs along.

I wouldn't even say it would be Vince's idea. Seems more a HHH thing. I went on a brief rant about how HHH is the best meta heel around, and I'll share it (bear in mind: 6 hours of sleep over 2 days, a night of smoking).

I saw a ton of his early PROGRESS matches and they were pretty forgettable.As have I. While I won't say he's a great talent, to act like he wouldn't get any notoriety when he was a popular figure during the UK indie boom is asinine.

Not true. He was gaining plenty of notoriety in the UK scene thanks to strong showings in Progress and RevPro.

I can translate.

Re: the talk of cycled ME stars and nobody being THE ACE I'm totally in favor of this approach. My favorite products took it, the ensemble approach is what's been a draw for film/television over the last few years, and it would be a big step back toward "something for everyone." I mean, we kinda have it now, but that's because of McMahon ego and neoliberalism ruining creative. Overall it's what-the-fuck-ever, because we're analyzing a children's television program, but...yeah.

I couldn't tell by the initial usage.

I'm not pretending. He's fully capable of following a good lead and has gotten pretty great at selling/bumping, but his offense is garbage finisher spam, at least for the big matches I've seen over the last 4 years. I dare even say that I would take Justin Credible over him. Reigns needs rehab. Hard. Have him come out tonight, cut an anti-Vince promo, and just leave for a few months. Trot him back out in June, sans that stupid fucking vest. The vest worked in the Shield because of the paramilitary/PMC gimmick, but it doesn't work when you're supposed to be THE GUY.

Yep, and Chono (who's only had cups of coffee in the States) is American.

If you think his work is okay then you must've thought Test was incredible. Martinez is shit.

Yeah, it's Pazuzu (hence they were part of Team Pazuzu) from The Exorcist. The white-on-black silhouette makes it look similar to the Crimson Ghost (which the Misfits have used as a logo for decades).

Given that neoliberalism, at least in America, began with Democrats moving further right to ride the Reaganite neocon wave...

-Bryan over Kobashi This isn't a knock on Kobashi as much as it's a total praise of Bryan. Kobashi is my favorite of the Four Pillars due to how easy his work is to "get" compared to the others, his selling and overselling perfect for a more western sensibility, but Bryan is able to convey more emotion from the underdog perspective due to size alone. When playing the ace and taking the lead, Bryan's offense is more varied and enjoyable, each move and hold building off of prior work. Close one for me, but I have no qualms saying Bryan is a top 5 all-timer for me. -Bret over Eddie Eddie may be one of the best all-around talents we've ever had on a major national stage, but my vote for Bret stems more from how each man excelled in their respective roles. Bret always delivered his best on TV and for big events, no matter the booking or opponent, and he was easily believable as "the Excellence of Execution" with a simple technical style. Eddie, while relishing every second of his "lie, cheat, steal" era, took far longer to find his true voice, with much of his 90s output feeling fresh at the time but seeming fairly pedestrian by what followed. Maybe I'm holding WM13 in too high a regard here, but nothing I've seen of Eddie's has touched that peak. -AJ over Benoit Benoit had one distinct style and, though it was a revolutionary one during his heyday, the times have not been as kind to it. AJ, on the other hand, has proven capable of working with a wider variety of opposing styles, injecting his own flavor into everything while still offering enough variety to keep it interesting throughout his entire career. 2002 Styles is different than 2005 Styles is different than 2009 Styles is different than 2014 Styles, etc. I'm also admitting bias due to how Benoit's style directly contributed to his final days, so make of it what you will.

Aye. SSB/Bucks from DTABM is on my shortlist for favorite PWG match.

I think it's more that we've all had a feeling it will do well for a few weeks now. In addition to that, you can't really compare the live draws of Japanese promotions versus American ones, especially from the 90s to now.

So shodate is the refined version pf.tgd workrate mark that most of us were during Scott Keith's heyday. That's actually very good to know. At least he's not demanding we talk about a wrestler's prime being 28-32.

Screw Canadian Stampede, I wish I was at this one

...yes, the single most visible company on the planet's top title doesn't mean anything. You're right. What if Volk Han held it?

I wonder if Matt D was the Framingham NECW show where the Logan Brothers and Pride had a TLC match. All 30-40 people in that little YMCA were losing their minds, and part of it had to be that these guys were doing this for us. Otherwise, I'm going to also chime in with RVD. I saw two ECW shows at the Worcester Palladium (end of 1998 and beginning of 1999), and both times the entire building was absolutely unglued for him. RVD chants happened during a Dudley Boyz promo, while we were waiting in line (and hoping not to get stabbed), and I want to say one happened in the notoriously awful bathroom. The inversion of this would be Survivor Series 2013 when half the TD Garden started leaving during Orton/Show. That was a lovely moment for incredibly different reasons, though, which also makes me add more Bryan to the conversation.

I'm good with taking a week off. Been busy with one of my dogs in/out of the vet. I have to work on my backlog anyway.

I feel he understood how to use his lack of traditional charisma to his own advantage far quicker than Benoit did (don't know how he stacks against Volk Han's promos), and that needs to be a factor when comparing western talents more than Japanese ones because of the focus. The business may have been different but watching his first ROH run and then his absolutely legendary one a year or so later is night and day. Compared to Misawa...Misawa's selling is my biggest gripe of his work, especially compared to his contemporaries. Kobashi may have oversold, but Kawada was perfect at it, both in the intricacies of selling injury and in the "toughing it out/FIGHTING SPIRIT" way. That's what makes me sour on him, and I feel Bryan is miles ahead in this department. We also need to take Bryan's general size into account. He's not a hoss but he's not tiny, he's clearly athletic but he's not an Adonis, and his bumping is often such that fear for his health has existed even before 2014. Him playing the "tough guy" role wouldn't work as well as it even does a peer like LowKi, so he rides the wave of the match perfectly, knowing when to tease a means of his defeat and when to kick in the adrenaline. There hasn't been a major Bryan match I've seen where I didn't buy that he'd lose.

I almost forgot about this, but that has to be one of the dumbest and most offensive programs they've ever put on. 90% of the country believes in God, so you've just offended them, and the other 10% is agnostic/atheist/"spiritual," so you've offended them by how stupid it is.

Ok, so whereas we can't really say anything as far as Bryan is concerned, because he never worked in NOAH as a main eventer, we can state the fact AJ Styles has actually mastered Kings Roadtm, and he is the one who should really be put on the same level as Misawa, Kobashi & Kawada. That...you know, I... mindblown.gif

And I still wholly disagree, as his career has shown his ability to bring his style and meld it with whatever his opponent could do in addition to some early highlights displaying he could work a more MMA-influenced ground game with an opponent who was more well-versed in it. Not that AJ was a superb mat worker, more that he could be easily led by somebody more experienced and has never shown any sign of being difficult to work with. Back to Bryan, am I alone in loathing his more grapplefuck work? I hate the 30-Minute Iron Man he had with Doug Williams, felt the "shoot style" match he worked with Tommy End was a boring wankfest, and feel it's when he fully embraces the more symbolic (good phrasing, El-P) nature of pro wrestling is when he proves how great he is.

Oh, there's been a few, so I now refer to them as moments where I say "fuck I need a break." WWF/E: -Hornswoggle pulling Looney Tunes tricks -HHH's reign of terror -"JBL is poopy" -WWECW -The constant undermining of Bryan in 2013 -Pretty much everything in 2002/2005/2007/2011/2012-2018, now that I think about it WCW: -Hogan's return to red & yellow after the nWo (yes, this was the point where I stopped watching entirely, and I'll forever say the New Blood angle was a massive improvement) TNA: -Jeff Jarrett wins the first KotM -Main Event Mafia vs. random face stable of the month -Black Reign & Rellik (which is "killer" spelled backwards, the blitzkrieg of its mentioning killed what I thought was a potentially awesome gimmick) -Immortal -Knockouts reverting to Russo's T&A emporium ROH: -DAN SEVERN being treated like he matters at all to pro wrestling