benjaminkicks

I'm going to rewatch some of his indie stuff to see if it holds up, but I think he'll make my list on the strength of his WWE run. Not sure how high yet, but I'm a really big fan of pretty much all his work in the WWE. He was consistently the most interesting and compelling guy working there during that time, and he had a plethora of great matches there.

I like Piper, but rarely has he wowed me in the ring. Most likely won't make my list. I would put Christian and Jericho above him, as I think both will find a place somewhere on my list. Edge above him too, probably, just based on the number of matches of his I enjoy, though I'm not sure if Edge will be making my list. I'm not very familiar with any of Matt Hardy's singles work, so I can't really speak to him. I hadn't even considered him for a project like this, but there's enough defenders of him around here that I might have to watch some of his stuff.

Really? It works for me. The match is Ric Flair, Ole & Arn Anderson vs. Dusty Rhodes & Rock 'n' Roll Express (Steel Cage Match 10-28-86)

http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=g7DNFqgrohI Just stumbled across this match on YouTube. Lots of fun, though I wish it were longer. I love multiman cage matches. And I guess this was televised in Japan, hence the commentary and the ads. It's weird watching an American match like this with Japanese commentary.

The injuries definitely hurts his case. If he hadn't gotten injured so much throughout his main run from '05 to '10, I think he would've most likely had some more high end matches to add to his resume.

I (perhaps foolishly) hoped that when Rusev lost at Mania it was to get the U.S. title off him so as to set him up for a run in the main event. After last night that seems very unlikely, and that makes me sad.

Batista has always been a personal favorite of mine. I enjoy most of his work I've seen. Not sure if that makes him "Greatest Wrestler Ever" material, but I thought he would be worth nominating to see if a case for him can be made. I will say that I think he has a sneaky long list of good to great matches throughout his run. The series with Triple H, Undertaker, and Cena are all great, and he had very good feuds and PPV matches with guys like Edge, HBK, Orton, Mysterio (both as a tag team and as enemies), Eddie, and Jericho, plus some great work last year in the Mania main event and the Evolution/Shield matches. I'm curious to see people's thoughts on him, and I hope he can get some real consideration and not just passed over because of previously conceived biases.

Awesome, thanks a bunch guys.

So is Batista worth nominating? Would I be the only guy who votes for him? Are there any reviews around here of his matches that would make him eligible for nomination? If not I can probably whip some up in the next couple of days.

Ha, you basically just named my working top 5 as well, though not in the same order. I would be super surprised at this point if my top 5 didn't end up being some combination of: Jumbo, Flair, Funk, Hansen, and Lawler

I'm a HUGE Batista fan. Like, irrationally so. He's one of my favorite wrestlers. I dunno what it is about the guy, but I love watching his matches, and I think his character work is pretty enjoyable as well. I generally watch wrestling with a pretty critical eye, but whenever I watch a Batista match match my brain goes "oh shit, Batista is wrecking people. Time to stop thinking and just watch in awe."

^This is definitely the first one I thought of. Another is Triple H going over at WM2000. I know it was the middle of the Attitude Era and they were going to for the shocking "heel goes over at the main event of Mania for the first time", but that should've been Rock's win. And, not to add on to the Triple H train here, but I really don't think he should've gone over Orton at Unforgiven '04. Orton's whole face turn was handled poorly, but losing the title a month after he got it certainly didn't do him any favors.

That list at the beginning of this topic is really helpful. I'm going through the 90's All Japan stuff right now, and I had a big list of all the matches I need to watch from 1990 until the exodus, but my laptop is trash and the file I had it in got corrupted. I would love to see lists like that for the rest of the years in the decade. They would be very helpful to me and much appreciated.

If I was asked to make this list like 5 years ago, maybe even 3 years ago, I wouldn't have hesitated to put Shawn as my #1. Being a theater nut, when I first started watching wrestling I was really drawn to the theatricality and performance aspect of it. And Shawn was the first guy who really impressed me in that aspect. He just exuded charisma, and as a new fan, I loved the way he worked in the ring. It was showy and flashy, but very rarely devolved into just MOVEZ. I still think he's an excellent storyteller in the ring, even if his selling is iffy sometimes and his offense isn't the best. But since then, my wrestling knowledge and tastes have become slightly more refined, and as such my opinion of Shawn has gone down. The biggest problem, funnily enough, is exactly the reason why I was drawn to him in the first place. Shawn was a first rate performer and entertainer, but he wasn't always a first rate wrestler. I'm still a big fan of his though, but I acknowledge and enjoy some other guys much more now. I still think he'll do well on my list, and could definitely see him placing in the top 30 or so.

I love Savage, and I expect he'll do well on my ballot, but I'm not sure I fully see a case for him being in my top 10, let alone #1. I probably need to watch more of his pre-WWF work, and need to do some rewatching of his WCW stuff, but I always felt that the bulk of his good work was from about '87 to like '92. That's a relatively short period of time, considering the other guys that a lot of people are considering for their #1. This really goes back to the "Peak vs. Career" thing, and I like to put value in both, but I'm not sure Macho's overall career stacks up enough compared to some others for me to consider him for my top 10. And I fall somewhere in the middle of the "Great matches vs. How a guy works" debate, but I think it's hard to deny that Savage is a little lacking in number of all time classic matches. Not sure how much stuff like that will really play into my rankings, but I think it's something to be considered at least. I'm still very far from being done with this list, and plenty of things could change before the deadline, but I expect Savage will fall somewhere in the 30s or 20s on my list.

Is it like total blasphemy that I'm probably going to put Taue ahead of both Kobashi and Misawa? Maybe I'm just a smarky asshole who prefers heels, or maybe I'm a total contrarian (both are very possible), but I've always enjoyed the work of Taue (and Kawada) over Misawa and Kobashi.

To add to this, I really wish the main event of WM2000 was a Rock/Triple H singles match, not that "McMahon in every corner" bullshit 4-way.

I wish Christian had gotten the big WWE main event push in the mid/late 2000's, instead of Edge.

"It's just wrestling" As in - "Why do you care so much? It's just wrestling." I see shit like that on the internet all the time, mostly from people WHO CLAIM TO BE WRESTLING FANS. I don't see people saying stuff like "why do you care so much? It's just a movie". Or just a TV show, or just a book, or just a whatever. But because it's been engrained in the head so many people, including those who actually enjoy it, that wrestling is some form of "lesser entertainment", people don't think that it warrants the same kind of in-depth analysis, thought, and critique as other forms of entertainment, and they belittle those who do. I haven't seen it happen here, and nor do I expect to, and I love this place for that, but it's crazy to me that there's this weird backlash against trying to interject any kind of deep thought into websites and forums that are supposed to be about wrestling. So basically, fuck wreddit and their bullshit gifs and memes. This place is so, so much better.

The "old man grumpy bastard" heel archetype, especially when it's a guy trying to put a talented young guy in his place, and even more especially when it's Jumbo.

I guess, in terms of ranking guys for this project, I haven't thought much about if they were Aces or not. There certainly will be plenty of various company aces scattered throughout my list, but it's by no means any kind of prerequisite for me in terms of placement. I'm not even close to being done with ranking my full list, but when I do finish I'm almost certain that there will be at least a few guys who were never company aces in my top 20. Being a good ace can definitely help a guy's case for this project though. Cena comes to mind first for that. There's been plenty of questionable booking and groan worthy character stuff throughout his run, sure, but he's been pretty consistently great as the rock on which the WWE has built it's product on for the last 8 to 10 years. The fact that he's been in so many big matches, and almost always puts on a good or great performance in them, definitely puts a big feather in his cap for me. On the opposite end of that spectrum though, is one of the biggest company aces ever, Hulk Hogan. Despite a huge, successful run on top, and the fact that he's one of the biggest pro wrestlers ever, I hate him and pretty much all of his work. No way he's making my list.

Coolio. Great minds think alike I suppose? I don't really know you, but if you agree with everything I said, you're probably a guy who's got stuff figured out, haha.

Haha, thanks man, I guess?

Oh god, that's pretty much a dream match for me. As much as I'd rather not have next year's Mania filled with part timers and old dudes, that's a match that I can totally get behind.

Looks like some people are down on it, but I thought this was an awesome show, and almost definitely a top 10 Mania for me (though I'll have to give it a rewatch sometime to know for sure). I enjoyed pretty much everything on the card (well, besides the musical performance, the fucking commercials, and the announce team). I was super baked and kinda drunk throughout the show, so I won't do a critical review of it right now, but here's some thoughts on the matches: Ladder match was a fun spotfest, and Bryan winning started the show off on a positive note. Not sure how I feel about Bryan going from being the WWE Champion last year to the IC Champion this year, but hopefully they book him to be a dominate champion who can bring back a little prestige to the belt. I'm a big fan of both Orton and Rollins in the ring, so I thought their match was pretty awesome. And that finish was amazing. Gonna have to rewatch it, but it my mind it was at least a 4-star match. Sting/Trips was completely stupid, but in a totally fun and endearing way, at least for me. It was basically a bunch of old guys masturbating themselves while the whole crowd cheered them on, but if they're gonna go full Attitude Era, might as well give us a total overbooked clusterfuck like the main events from back them. Not great by any means, but I enjoyed it for what it was. The women's match was fine. Not much to say really. I like all the wrestlers involved, but I dunno, they couldn't really do anything to make the match feel important. The terrible booking hasn't helped them with that. Cena/Rusev was great. The entrances were dope as hell, and the match itself was a lot of fun, and pretty much exactly what I wanted it to be. The "Cena locked in the Accolade" stuff was kinda overly dramatic, but considering the story of the match, I thought it was totally appropriate. Haven't watched FastLane yet, so I don't know how this compared to their match there, but I'm gonna have to check it out if it was at least as good as this. I don't give a shit about UFC or MMA, but I know that Ronda Rousey is a total asskicker. The segment with her, Rock, and the Authority was great. Too long? Probably. But the crowd was eating that shit up. So much better than the usually "celebrity appearances" at WrestleMania for me. Wyatt/Taker was not great, but it wasn't too long, and I enjoyed it. Good chance I don't like this at all on rewatch, but I was watching with friends that weren't wrestling fans at all, and Undertaker was like the only guy on the show they knew. They were marking out for everything he did, and I was just along for the ride. Kinda lame that Wyatt lost, but Streak or no Streak, it's Taker at WrestleMania. The chances of him losing again were pretty slim. I wonder if he'll have a match next year? Holy shit, that main event was nuts. My friends and I were talking throughout the show, but we quieted the fuck up pretty soon after the match started. For all the WWE likes to talk about "big match feel" and whatever, they really nailed it with this one. It just felt important and huge, and completely worthy of being the main event at the biggest show of the year. Good on Reigns and Lesnar for decided that they were going to stiff the hell out of each other, it really added to the match. Lesnar totally ate that ringpost, and the gusher he got going from that put the whole match into overdrive. Great match and awesome performances from both guys. I liked the finish. Sure, a clean win would've been nice, but I think it was a good way to get the title off Brock without him eating a pin. I think Seth is good, and him being Champion is much more interesting than Reigns right now. Though I will say, that match pretty much sold me on Reigns as a future champion. Would be totally ok if he won the belt at like SummerSlam, hopefully after he gets a little more seasoning in the ring. Great show all around.