Microstatistics

That is fair, it is a matter of perspective . I will say though that even though I don't like Shawn/Taker WM 25, I thought WM 26 was excellent with Shawn wrestling desperately and incorporating a lot of his past opponents offense to beat Taker. The kickouts all made sense, like after the second SCM where Shawn realizes he can't beat him. It parallels Kobashi/Akiyama 2004 for me actually with Shawn and Akiyama trying different things to win but eventually realize they can't overcome their opponents but are defiant to the end (Shawn with the gesture, Akiyama forcing Kobashi to bust out his ultimate finisher). Davey/Elgin is pretty bad though.

Strongly disagree, those finishing stretches are nothing like some ROH main events or something like Shawn vs. Taker WM25 where the "greatness" resides with the finisher kickouts and artificial drama like overdramatic selling. The greatness of the finishing runs of Kobashi vs. Misawa/Akiyama is based on classic storytelling and the nearfalls play into it rather than becoming the main focus. 3/1/2003 - About whether Kobashi can recover from ramp tiger suplex unlike previous big matches between the two where Misawa managed to hit a big move that permanently turned the tide. Nearfalls show his growth and how Misawa eventually realizes he has been surpassed. Also the way Kobashi slowly regains his senses was out of this world great selling. 7/10/2004 - About how Kobashi's resilience forces Akiyama to changes strategies and play into Kobashi's game of trading high impact offense (the way Misawa used to beat Kobashi and Kawada). Also the nearfalls at the end put over Akiyama as the strongest challenger yet.

Around 17 down for me. Primarily shoot style guys and luchadors.

That is a great point. I don't think people like El Satanico, Nick Bockwinkel and Buddy Rose actually work too stiff but their offense just seems so vicious and violent and so looks amazing.

I would say Cena captures the essence of being an ace better than nearly anyone except Misawa, Hashimoto and maybe Lawler.

The led by Misawa/Kawada argument doesn't hold up considering his GHC title run, where he was able to have different matches with a variety of opponents and almost every match was really great. His overall non-4 pillars output is the best of the four (in my opinion atleast). Also to add to Jvk's point, Kobashi is an underrated limb seller. The 7/24/1998 match had one of the most impressive leg selling performances ever but people were criticizing it in the Akiyama thread for some reason even though it was nearly as good as Kawada's 12/3/1993. Kobashi's was way more dramatic but that doesn't make it any less effective.

Honestly Kobashi is a much smarter worker than he is given credit for in my opinion. I won't deny he could go way overboard with some movez and fighting spirit after 1997, but he had a keen eye for structuring matches, holding them together as well as for escalation. He also knew exactly how much to give lesser opponents and how to make them look very credible. He wasn't some big dummy who went around throwing moves while his opponents did the thinking which is sometimes the perception.

Same.

Faraon (high vote), Miyato (high vote), Yamamoto and Hoshino off my list so far.

You know how opinions can never be wrong? Having Nash at 53 or 69 on a GWE list does not comply with that rule .

Some stuff about the style that annoys me at times (not about any workers in particular): Some of the falls in trios can be too choreographed like all 3 guys getting pinned at the same time and in the same manner. Some of the brawls can be too formulaic/repetitive (typical formula: technico gets ambushed and beaten up in first fall, gets surprise win in the second fall, wins back and forth battle in third fall) Sometimes finishing stretches can be too back and forth so transitions/selling suffer

Kevin Nash being anywhere near Mima Shimoda on a list like this, let alone tied, is just tragic. She was one of the last ones I unfortunately had to cut. One of the all time great tag workers.

I know you are tired of hearing the "it's a style thing" defense of Lucha but it is valid because watching pro wrestling with a universal set of standards is nearly impossible. The psychology is not worse, it's just different. If someone locks in a hold 3 minutes into a Lucha match, the likelihood of getting a submission is waaay greater than if someone in Japan or US did it because the "effectiveness" of the hold varies depending on the region. Why are piledrivers sometimes considered instant kill in Mexico but routinely no sold in Japan? Same principle. Two quick submissions in a Lucha 2/3 falls match might be considered bad pacing or poor psychology because its not what you see in Japan/US but its normal in Mexico because the stuff leading up to it is logical in its justification of it within the confines of the style. Each style needs to viewed on its on merit. I would never expect shootstyle or joshi workers to sell or pace their matches in the same way as Kobashi or Kawada. If you can't get into Lucha or something else on its own, that is completely fine but I think saying it is bad because it would be considered bad in a US or Japanese ring is not fair. I agree with this. I think in a NWA technical style match, someone grabbing an armbar and holding onto it for 2-3 minutes with minimal resistance from the opponent is FAR more cooperative than something like Dandy vs. Azteca where one guy cannot simply grab a hold without the opponent immediately trying to reverse/counter it.

Agreed. Those tags with her vs. Fujiwara/Ishikawa/Ikeda were very good. In that Ishikawa match she was literally going hold for hold with him.

I had him quite a bit lower than that

Surprised I was the only one who voted for Faraon. He had good stuff sprinkled throughout the 80s and some great singles matches in the early 90s, enough for bottom 10 placement for me.

Underestimated the love someone like Lawler was going to get. Didn't put him in my March Madness Top 10 predictor list because I thought a sizable portion of people would exclude him due to unfamiliarity but I guess not.

Did they seriously give that match 30 minutes?

No Stan Hansen World of Sport is my biggest blindspot so no Jim Breaks (seen like 1 match of his) No Virus, seen extremely little of him for some reason

Parv 8 of those didn't get #1 votes. I'm sure some people had Bret and Fujiwara at #1. Maybe Tanahashi too

No Misawa & Akiyama and Kobashi & Akiyama teams were huge omissions. I probably should have checked beforehand because I just assumed they were nominated like some of the other All Japan teams.

Yeah that's true I didn't mean it in a protege trying to prove himself kind of sense even though it has the same elements . Not sure how you would describe it exactly. But my main point is that shootstyle is a great medium for storytelling, just like the traditional style and I would encourage more people to explore it.

That doesn't mean Han wasn't far more skilled and dangerous than Tamura (and basically everyone in RINGS) during their first match. His debut is irrelevant. The dude was an established beast from his first match onwards and that is why the story of the trilogy is Tamura trying to prove he was on Han's level and Han trying to put him in his place.

In terms of an ideology, I would say Tamura vs. Han is the epitome of student vs. master. I put spoilers tags because I kind of reveal the finish of each match in the analysis. 9/25/1996 1/22/1997 9/26/1997

Disagree with this because a lot of the shootstyle matches I have seen have clear narratives. Maybe the biggest example is the Tamura/Han trilogy. The roles of each and the story of each match are very clearly defined. Not only that, there is an overarching story as well because we get to see how their characters and approaches change/evolve across the three matches and each match builds off the previous. It is basically the Flair vs. Steamboat of shootstyle except maybe on an even higher level. Also mat wizard vs. striker, david vs. goliath and young lion vs. veteran/ace type matches and their variations are pretty common in shootstyle.