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Impact only gets like 150K viewers per show. Xplosion doesn't even air in the US. Shouldn't be surprising people who don't actively follow the British scene or indies in general would have no idea who Mark Andrews is.

HBK's top face run is miserable, my man. Just the worst.

Very, very unimpressive show. It's amazing with the UK scene as hot as it is that it has WWE and WoS angling for weekly TV shows from the area, yet neither promotion can get the top names associated with the UK wrestling scene. I swear every match had at least one guy who they said had only been wrestling for a year or two. Way too many guys who were not at all ready for this kind of spotlight. The attempts at character work were poor (this guy was a preme, this guy lost part of his ear and constantly touches, this guy has a mustache), and the ring work was about as bland and uninteresting as the WOS pilot. I liked the setting, couldn't understand any of the chants besides the Jesus and You're not Balor ones, Nigel and Cole were inoffensive. Bate/Tucker was the only stand out match of the show, and it wasn't anything special, but Bate is shockingly polished for being 19. He won me over by the end when I had written him off as a slightly bigger Jack Gallagher. I think WWE made a mistake not putting their UK talent into this, since they weren't going to have any of the top indie guys from the area. Having someone beat Sheamus or Neville could make the whole thing seem way bigger and make a star out of whoever got the win. Dunne being compared directly to Finlay/Bryan, then not being particularly impressive, then getting into an angle with Regal/HHH is hard to take seriously when he still has acne and is a foot shorter than both. Certainly did nothing to make me watch the next rounds, or a weekly show with this group of talent.

I think he probably could have, for a bit. Not long term. His awkwardness and poor promos would make it hard to step up every few months and build a PPV around. He's best served in the mid card where he can just have matches and not have to worry about being engaging outside of the ring. I heard someone describe Cesaro as a tourist once, and that seems like an extremely accurate description to me. He's now not only damaged goods from booking, but also exposed in the ring as just a spot guy, and outside of the ring as completely dropping the ball anytime he was given the chance to cut a promo or show character.

There is definitely a portion of the internet crowd that thinks anyone and everyone with talent should be in the main event, and if they're not, their career has been totally wasted. Even at Cesaro's peak around WM 30, he could have maybe headlined a PPV or two, but he clearly wasn't a long term headliner type. Not everyone is made to be a main eventer, and even some people that are can't be because the shows need jobbers, openers, and mid carders just as much as main eventers.

Sheamus is certainly a better performer than Cesaro, far more comfortable showing any kind of character in and out of the ring, far more comfortable on promos, far better at selling, and far better at having his matches make sense. I can understand people thinking Cesaro is "better" because he has some neat high spots and good hot tags, but I think fairly objectively one can say Sheamus is a better pro wrestler than Cesaro, even if Cesaro entertains you more. But yes, the idea that one could be the most underrated and the other the most overrated when they've been together in the same angle for 7 months as opponents and as a team is silly as fuck.

I think plenty of dudes would have had enough success at it in the late 90s-mid 2000s before guys starting getting well rounded and highly skilled at multiple things. Up until the big explosion from TUF, just being a better athlete was enough for a lot of guys. And if they wanted to work in Japan, they could have made some good coin taking dives anyway. A big dude with amateur wrestling background and some cardio could go a long way in MMA back then.

No, because then they'd complain that WWE is burying their top guy. Guaranteed. Just like they complain about 50/50 booking, but the second someone doesn't get their win back, they're buried and WWE sucks.

The preview show wasn't very good. Compare it to the one they did for the CWC. You don't really know anything about the talent involved, who you should root for, who to look out for, any of their backgrounds except for the guy Balor trained, what moves to look for, or really anything other than WWE is really proud of themselves for having "expanded" into an area they've been running shows in for 30 years.

I don't think there was any of way going from "a large portion watch just to complain" to "no one should be able to complain". I was pointing out that those group of fans you can never satisfy because they'll complain about Roman ruining the US title then complain when he drops it because he'll just get the world title are the type of people who watch because they ENJOY complaining about it. You can never satisfy them, so there is no reason to try nor to pay much attention to them unless you also get your enjoyment from Raw by complaining about it. Much like there isn't much of a reason to pander to the smarky base that watches no matter what, unless what they want happens to crossover with larger portions of the audience. What I'm saying is keep Cesaro in the mid card forever, pls.

I kind of feel like everything on those Shotgun shows deserves to be considered Wrestlecrap. The Elmo/Sunny stuff is so stupid and bad that it is hard to believe grown adults came up with it as something that would be hip and edgy.

I would say West World did more for Radiohead's popularity in the past ten years than anything Radiohead has done themselves.

He's John the Baptist, Daniel Bryan is Jesus, and they have a lot of disciples. I think his run, when put in perspective, will look very impressive. He basically fought the system and paved the way for a lot of the current big stars to get their shot. That will gain in traction as those guys become TOP GUYS and discuss their influences. The idea that Punk paved the way for people has always been weird to me. Randy Savage was under 6 feet and got a year long reign in an era where the average guy was 6'4, 300 pounds. The 90s were built around "average" sized (comparatively, obviously) like Austin, Bret, and HBK being the top guys. The 2000s had guys like Angle, Benoit, and Eddie. He didn't do anything to fight the system. He complained about not being given the top guy stuff, then complained when he got the top guy stuff, then left, then complained some more. He didn't change the system. Bryan was going to get his title at some point even if it wasn't going to be at WM 30. There were already tons of indie guys hired and on TV that had nothing to do with Punk. WWE was hiring indie guys in the 90s, too. WWE really had no choice but to turn more to the indies for talent, because people that would have gone into wrestling a decade before were going into MMA or other sports. That wave of indie guys was coming regardless of if Punk had ever even been hired. Was it, because at the time the WWF hated indie guys and thought they worked wrong or could never make it. Punk and Bryan with all their talents were thought of as nobodies who couldn't work by the WWE and only got pushed because Punk got so over and Heyman was in his corner. The WWF was hiring athletes and training them, not turning to indies. They hired Punk but wanted to put him in the Spirit Squad and treat him like the joke they thought he was. Even when he got over they fought in for a long time. Punk paved the way. They let Punk keep his name, heavily hyped his debut, made him the face of the 3rd brand, then gave him two MITB and titles in 2 years. To act like WWE had no plans for him or thought he was a joke is asinine. Around the time Punk got his push, the actual athletes coming to WWE to get trained was drying up, because going into wrestling was not enticing for athletes who could go into MMA or football. WWE had to turn to the indies. That was coming with or without Punk. If anything, Bryan's success being such a small guy and being more over than Punk ever was really paved the way for the NXT hirings/pushes and current things like 205 Live and the upcoming UK show. Punk's legacy is making indie dudes think "pipe bombs" were great and edgy, and being a guy who got everything a wrestler could ever want handed to him and ruining it because he was a miserable asshole. Never heard of him

He's John the Baptist, Daniel Bryan is Jesus, and they have a lot of disciples. I think his run, when put in perspective, will look very impressive. He basically fought the system and paved the way for a lot of the current big stars to get their shot. That will gain in traction as those guys become TOP GUYS and discuss their influences. The idea that Punk paved the way for people has always been weird to me. Randy Savage was under 6 feet and got a year long reign in an era where the average guy was 6'4, 300 pounds. The 90s were built around "average" sized (comparatively, obviously) like Austin, Bret, and HBK being the top guys. The 2000s had guys like Angle, Benoit, and Eddie. He didn't do anything to fight the system. He complained about not being given the top guy stuff, then complained when he got the top guy stuff, then left, then complained some more. He didn't change the system. Bryan was going to get his title at some point even if it wasn't going to be at WM 30. There were already tons of indie guys hired and on TV that had nothing to do with Punk. WWE was hiring indie guys in the 90s, too. WWE really had no choice but to turn more to the indies for talent, because people that would have gone into wrestling a decade before were going into MMA or other sports. That wave of indie guys was coming regardless of if Punk had ever even been hired.

More well known, for sure. Even at their absolute peak they weren't some gigantic band setting the world on fire, either. Having never heard of Motorhead outside of WWE programming, not knowing the song Ace of Spades even with it being used on WWE programming a little over a year ago, and not knowing what a rhythm game is probably less common than knowing Radiohead beyond Creep.

Radiohead is your example of a huge band everyone knows? Lol This whole thread is a pretty good eye on why wrestling can't get any decent sponsors

Guy has never heard of Lemmy outside of WWE programming. Hasn't heard of Ace of Spades that was used on WWE programming in 2015. Has never heard of Rock Band/Guitar Hero. Yet I was the one getting told I was in a bubble earlier in the thread.

Neither of you have ever even heard Ace of Spades on the radio? Even classic rock stations play that. And it's been in a ton of ads over the last decade. And Motorhead has been in pretty much every rhythm game over the past decade as well.

I kind of hope Punk never comes back or gets inducted into the HOF, although I can't picture anyone after like 2005 getting in anyway. I don't think time will look back fondly on Punk, both as a personality outside of the ring and as a talent inside of it.

Early 90's WCW is so much fun. Some great stuff there. Even the bad stuff is part of the charm of WCW for me. Love that era! 1992 into very early 1993 WCW is probably the greatest year from a wrestling quality standpoint ever produced from a US stand point. Dangerous Alliance, peak Vader, arguably peak Sting (ring wise), peak Cactus, the Steiners, Gordy/Doc, Steamboat, Dustin coming into his own. It's a magical time.

You were talking about Roman's booking, so I thought that entailed Raw. I meant Raw, yes. I have no idea about last night's show, because I don't want to watch a show I know I won't like just to have something to complain about the next day. If these people hated it as much as they say, they wouldn't be watching. So, either they love to hate, or secretly like shitty shows.

Kind of a broad brush when Smackdown has been one of the best TV shows week after week and Raw has been a slog. If someone's bashing both shows you may have a point, but I don't see much of that. Honestly, it seems like 3 hour Raws are taking their toll creatively just like they did on WCW when they had those historically awful 3 hour Nitros. The difference is WCW did it as a dick waving move and had the ability to pull back when it was obvious the toll it was taking. WWE is stuck with it since TV money is the lifeblood of the company now. People go into Raw every week expecting it to be bad, they hate on it the whole show, then talk about how terrible it was the next day. That's what they get out of it. People don't go into SD expecting it to be terrible and for them to hate it. They enjoy complaining about Raw more than they enjoy an actual good episode of Raw. That's pretty much the backbone of just about every wrestling message board for the past 4 years. Even when things go well, it's complaining and rebooking. That's how and why a large portion of internet fans watch today.

The people that complain about WWE each week are watching because the enjoyment they get from it is being able to gripe and armchair book. So that's never going to change and there never is any way to win for WWE, because those people are watching to have things to complain about in the first place.

Well since the commissioners hired and put the GMs in their position, it makes sense they'd be able to fire them if they wanted to. Commissioners are obviously a rung above the GMs.

She dislikes Rollins because of Rollins' attitude shortly before and after his injury where he claimed that he didn't need The Authority and they were holding him back. She dislikes Roman because he's been a thorn in her side for the past 2ish years now and violently assaulted her husband multiple times (and speared her at WM). Post WM 30, The Authority hasn't really been anything but a plot device to move the show along, a different entity from segment to segment depending on what that particular segment needs. Doing what's best for business, if you will.