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Cody has proven himself to have a lot of markish and dickheaded behavior on social media over the past couple of years, but I can agree that there was nothing "markish" about being bothered by a dude ripping off the head of a toy of his dead dad for cheap heel heat in a backstage segment with his brother. All his tweet was was saying it made him sad because it made him think of his dad being dead and being used for cheap heat. That's a pretty reasonable thing to think. The Bret/AJ comparison obviously wasn't a 1:1, but more pointing out that AJ was too well known, established, and talented to ever be stuck in NXT...much like it would have been stupid for WCW to pick up Bret Hart and not put him at the top of the card immediately. AJ spent 10 years on TV as the face of the second biggest company in the US, with an audience at one point just slightly smaller than what WWE's current television audience is. Combine that with being on top of NJ for 2 years, when NJPW has so much hype in the wrestling world, it would have been crazy to put AJ in NXT to work 400 fans in Florida. Again.

Average AWA is so god awful. Really, a lot of top level AWA is pretty bad, too. Every AWA Champion had better matches defending it outside of the territory than in the AWA itself.

Even worse than that. Bret's first title shot in WCW was for the TV Championship. 6 months after he debuted.

Rey and Ultimo were more over than Liger and Benoit in WCW. Ultimo Dragon was crazy over in 1997-1998 especially and WCW pushed him as hard as anyone in the undercard. If he lost the TV or Cruiserweight title, he was guaranteed to be winning the other one a week or two later. He always had a title or an angle. He was treated as something almost outside and above the cruiserweight division for most of his time there. Benoit always got the "we respect this guy" pops and fans would get very engaged in his matches, but Ultimo got a much different reaction for most of his run.

The behavior that got me banned from DVDVR was saying that the wrestling fans who were chanting one more match at a guy who was retiring because he had had seizures due to brain lesions from all the concussions he had in the ring were disgusting.

He made himself look great. The only guy he "made" was Sting, who couldn't be stopped even if Flair wanted to stop him. Who else had their career elevated after working with Flair? Damn near everyone working with him went back to where they were or lower on the card. Or they left the company because of him. Who do you consider the least flawed wrestlers? Just to understand where you're coming from All have some flaws, certainly, but on my list of guys that I enjoy the most and see the fewest flaws in, I'd put Jumbo, Bret Hart, and Arn Anderson at the top.

I don't need "credibility", whatever the hell that means, on a wrestling message board. I've had these thoughts documented about Flair for years. It's not trolling. It was a spin off of the other thread, because talking about Flair and the GWE got me thinking about how ridiculous it was that people that claim to REALLY KNOW wrestling would put him at the top of any list, knowing how deeply, deeply flawed he was as a performer. Instead of calling me a troll, perhaps share you view of why I'm incorrect.

Remember that roughly 1/3rd of NXT watchers watch Raw, so every NXT act essentially has to start over when they get called up.

That sure reads like he's saying "He's better off in NXT, enjoy him as him there while you can" to me. What I think ultimately "ruins" NXT talent getting called up isn't whatever Vince/Stephanie/Dunn boogeyman shit, but the inherent overexposure that comes with being on the main roster. NXT can afford to not have their top guys wrestling every week. Raw and Smackdown can't. So you might see someone on Raw more times in a month than you'd see them on NXT in 2 months. All the specialness is lost because you're seeing them so much more.

It should be noted that networks like Galavision/Telemundo/Univision weren't normally accessible in most places in the US that didn't have very large Spanish speaking communities (Florida, California, Texas) until quite recently. My area didn't get any Spanish speaking cable networks until this year, and they're on a different tier than standard cable. It was a lot easier to go online in 1998 and get Japan tapes than Mexico tapes.

I believe Bock was better at everything than Flair, outside of bombastic promos. Bock's serious promos were better than Ric's serious promos. Flair got to work with better talent for much longer, but Bock himself was a far better wrestler in my eyes. Bock was a better technition, better seller, had better psychology, was a better athlete than Flair was even when Bock was nearing 50 and Ric was in his physical prime. Bock was the adult version to Ric Flair's cartoon show. Bock is a treat.

Legitshook.com

Oh man, Lou Thesz was genuinely amazing to watch. Dude killing guys with backdrops and powerbombs in the 50s, knowing perfectly when to stooge, when to throw cheap shots, when to be a bad ass and go for the kill. I have a website where I've watched pretty much every major Flair match from 1986 on. My thoughts on him have been pretty consistent.

My initial thought is yes, but when you break it down, there are more guys making a good living outside of the WWE system than there have been in many years. There are three other promotions on national TV in the US, there are lots of local shows on all over the country, guys like the Young Bucks make their own schedules, call their own shots, and make more than most WWE guys are making. There are more promotions around the world that are hotter and making more money than there have been since the 80s.

It means I'm feeling blessed to be so welcomed

Hypermasculine Tanahashi. The guy going into the main event of Wrestle Kingdom sings Katy Perry songs after winning. His buddy is one of the most popular Japanese stars in the world, and the two of them have played up rumors of having a bad romantic break up for years.

Manhatten Center can hold up to 2000 for wrestling. I don't know (or care) what the attendance was for the Danielson/Morishima match, but throwing out incorrect facts isn't going to help any argument. I looked and could only find 1000 as capacity. Does anybody know attendance, can't find it. There are indies in America that draw 1000 people and get zero coverage as well. When ROH was blowing up online and drawing 800 fans was this incredible feat, there were shows in Alabama or Arkansas drawing the same or more with the Rock N Roll Express and Bobby Eaton, AJ Styles, etc. No one ever talked about them. There is a indie show that brings a bunch of legends and hot indie guys to Indiana every year that draws 5000 people. It gets zero coverage. No one cares about those baseball stadium shows. And these are in America, with a language that people know. Yet you're unsure of why a random Mexican indie match isn't being covered as much as something from AAA or CMLL? What legends show draws 5k in Indiana? The shows that do the best in the U.S. and get the least coverage are probably lucha shows as I noted earlier. Heroes and Legends. They do a fanfest as well. Coming up on their 7th year doing it. They usually draw more than the SD tapings in the same building.

This is the same way Grimmas argued about the Chris Hero shit: He had a narrative in his mind that was only in his mind, when people challenged it, he'd change what he was saying, then wrap back around, then deflect with sarcasm but still make sure everyone knew he was right. It's pretty obvious he's not up for actual discussion about this, because his mind is already made up. He just wants to complain about Dave Meltzer not covering things he likes as much as he'd like him to, all while finding the much DEEPER hidden meaning behind it all, because wrestling must be deeper than surface level play fighting.

But you do know, you just won't accept what people are telling you because it doesn't fit in with the narrative you've come up with in your head.

If you're sure, then why is this even a thread? You know why that match doesn't get the coverage you think it deserves. You know why lucha doesn't get the coverage you think it deserves in comparison to Japanese wrestling.

Manhatten Center can hold up to 2000 for wrestling. I don't know (or care) what the attendance was for the Danielson/Morishima match, but throwing out incorrect facts isn't going to help any argument. I looked and could only find 1000 as capacity. Does anybody know attendance, can't find it. There are indies in America that draw 1000 people and get zero coverage as well. When ROH was blowing up online and drawing 800 fans was this incredible feat, there were shows in Alabama or Arkansas drawing the same or more with the Rock N Roll Express and Bobby Eaton, AJ Styles, etc. No one ever talked about them. There is a indie show that brings a bunch of legends and hot indie guys to Indiana every year that draws 5000 people. It gets zero coverage. No one cares about those baseball stadium shows. And these are in America, with a language that people know. Yet you're unsure of why a random Mexican indie match isn't being covered as much as something from AAA or CMLL?

Yes I have watched the matches. I've seen most every major Flair match since around 78 or so. This is a conclusion I've come to over the past few years primarily from being exposed to more of his work outside of JCP, where he often looked even more out of place and enforced his formula even more. He'd go to other territories and work the same match that he would for the JCP crowd instead of the Texas or Mid South crowd. Or in Japan, he'd more or less have that same match, but be a bit more subdued. I used to think Flair was great growing up. Then, as I saw more of his work and began writing down my thoughts and really formulating my opinions, I realized he wasn't very good at the most basic things in wrestling. And that opinion got more and more solidified to the point where, heading into 2017, I could name probably 100 guys I'd put ahead of him.

Right now, I'd say Charlotte's base match is better than Ric's, and her psychology is a lot better. The biggest issue with Charlotte has nothing to do with her, and everything to do with her only having 2-3 opponents for the last year. Even then, compare the 4 or 5 matches with Sasha this year to any 4-5 matches that Ric had with one opponent and see how varied and different Charlotte's are in comparison. Charlotte is probably the strongest over all performer on Raw right now.

It was just a random example, not a specific match. I could have said Dutch vs Dream Machine and my point would be the same.