Boss Rock

Thanks!

With his career having come to such an abrupt and unfortunate end, Shibata is one of the few modern day workers who we can really properly evaluate today. I think he was largely great and among the best in the world from when he returned to NJPW up to his injury. The Okada match in particular is one of the greatest performances I've seen. From the little bit I've seen of his earlier career, he was great as the young punk who tried to big league guys like Jun, Fujita, Kawada, and Tenryu only for him to get demolished. And while those who dislike Ishii may have similar issues with Shibata, the latter would still work submission and do a bit more grappling (not to suggest Ishii is one-dimensional, I think that's a misconception). It's likely Shibata finds a place at least in the bottom-half of my ballot.

What clip is that match from?

When you're that much of a badass, you have time to look good for the camera.

Nice!

Top 15 candidate. Could make any match feel like a big deal with a rather minimalist approach. The four-way iron match for the NWA title is one of my favorites of his as he pretty much holds the whole thing together.

Definitely watch the first 1990 match before the December one.

I like Takeshita too but have had similar issues, especially with being bland and not a great seller. But his offense honestly has to rank up there for best in the world and his big matches are often at least very good, so I'm willing to give him a shot.

What do you think of the January '86 tag against Jumbo and Tenryu? That's always been MOTY of '86 for me.

We got brief flashes with the Peter Pan Ibushi match and TAKA's anniversary tag. Would love to see him play King Shit in NOAH, DDT, or AJPW.

I think as far as grumpy, hard-hitting guys go I'd put Tenryu and Jumbo ahead but I like Choshu a lot. Rivals Tenryu as Hashimoto's best opponent, was part of many of those excellent 80's AJPW tags, and could always be counted on as a big match performer when he returned to NJPW in the 90's.

When it comes to 2021, I think Okada's singles matches output trumps pretty much everyone listed except Shingo (the EVIL match wasn't great but was as good as you can do with someone as bad as EVIL). I'm confident he beats a fair number of them career-wise as well. Ishii and Tanahashi are the only ones who I would comfortably say have had better careers. Ibushi possibly but he had some notable bad habits over the years that he still occasionally brings out. Naito is close but isn't always the most inconsistent and his best stuff was definitely when he became Ingobernable. For Suzuki, the only other person I've seen him have better "best" matches against than Okada are Tanahashi and maybe that one Sugiura match. Shingo's pre-2018 is good but also doesn't connect nearly as much as his current work has. Everyone else listed, I think Okada's career largely blows them out of the water. 2020 was really the only year I felt Okada somewhat disappointed on a match-to-match basis, but it was by no means a complete wash as he still had some of the best matches of the year. As far as elevating underdogs, I would wager the 2012 Anniversary match against Naito and his 2017 matches against Kojima (aged veteran struggling to prove he can still go with the elite) and Juice (plucky babyface trying to impress in his first G1). The TAKA anniversary tag also has As far as tag matches go, I think all the ones I posted he is very good in. But I'll also not pretend the bulk of his resume isn't singles work (although in all fairness, who in NJPW does?)

They've had similar issues in the past with constantly running Korakuen shows. But I would have figured by now they'd start trying to book other small venues. And the booking starting to drive folks away wouldn't surprise me either.

The only folks I would say for sure who are higher than him would be Tanahashi and Ishii. And I do want to make it clear that there are quite a few current era NJPW guys I'm strongly considering for my ballot. But saying a dozen or so are better him? Yeah I don't see it at all.

Strongly disagree with all of this. Saying he's only had good matches against great wrestlers completely overlooks what he's gotten out of the likes of Fale, Makabe, and Elgin, to say nothing of 2015 Tenryu. And while you could argue the balloon maker was more of a cosmetic change rather than an in-ring one, the argument that he was bad in that G1 is something I've never been able to wrap my head around. He pretty much carried an all-time terrible block on his back. And there's no way I would say Takeshita is miles ahead of him. I like Takeshita, but he's a much, much worse seller and isn't an engaging ace or personality at all. Who would you say has a higher batting average in NJPW?

Thanks all!

Apart from the Park matches, what are some standout matches from Santo's 2000-01?

While I would probably rate Casas higher due to longevity and versatility, Satanico has the highest peaks of any luchador I've seen. The El Dandy feud is my favorite Lucha series with the December 1990 match being one of my all-time favorites. Also love his stuff with Morgan and the brawl he had with a young Atlantis. And while I said Casas probably surpasses him in longevity, there are quite a few late 90's-early 00's Satanico matches I like. Very strong top 25 candidate.

Santo was one of my favorite discoveries of the last year. Such a crisp and precise high-flier with tons of awesome brawls. It took me a little while to appreciate the Casas matches but they're awesome.

Great write-up Cap!

@elliott once referred to Foley as the "smartest dumb wrestler" and he was spot on. He put his body through an obscene amount of punishment while construcing some pretty incredible matches. While a lot of his best matches had weapons or were No DQ, considering how many "meh" plunder matches you see nowadays, it's clear that simply using weapons in a match or taking a crazy bump doesn't automatically make a match great. It's also funny to see how guys like Orton or Triple H never reached the heights they did with Foley in similar match types. He just had such a great sense of creating chaos. And for all the stupid bumps he took, they were done to make his opponents look like all-stars. He's been in my preliminary top 30 for a bit and while I'm not sure that's where he'll end up, he's a pretty safe lock.

The entire story and narrative of the match. You have the young, cocky, yet dominant ace defending against the prodigal son turned sentimental favorite. The ace questions whether or not the sentimental favorite has what it takes to be the best. The favorite questions the ace's toughness. You have Okada trying to big league and beat Shibata at his own game only to fail and thus decide it's wiser to go back to his bread and butter. But Shibata lands that big shot which throws Okada off his game and he decides to play into Shibata's strategy. And Shibata's onslaught is all the more effective because of A) how well Okada sells everything and B ) this is the first time Okada has ever been so thoroughly dominated and overwhelmed by a superior striker and grappler. It's one of those "he's been on the top so long, he kinda had this coming". He's only able to outlast and win the match because Shibata gets TOO caught up in beating him up and not sealing the deal. Shibata never had this match with Ishii, Goto, or Suzuki because they're similar, hard-hitting wrestlers so their matches were more bull-moose fights. He never had this match with Tanahashi because the latter was a defending hero who, while he could play heel, never had the same level of cockiness and desire for one ups-manship Okada had. The story and action aren't nearly as effective without Okada's franchise player at 29 character.

The Tenryu match is one of the most impressive carry jobs in recent memory. Not sure I would call it a "good" match because Tenryu had no business doing anything in a wrestling ring, but they put together a match that worked and that has to be a feather in Okada's cap. The Suzuki rain match wasn't their best together but still really good. It worked their typical formula and they did a great job adjusting to the slippery mat. I also agree with Okada-Shibata being the best match of the 2010's. As amazing as Shibata was, there's no way he has that match with anyone else. For Okada tag matches, these are all good ones: w/Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Tetsuya Naito 12/23/2013 w/Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Katsuyori Shibata 11/7/2015 w/Tomohiro Ishii vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Katsuyori Shibata 12/19/2015 w/YOSHI-HASHI vs. Naomichi Marufuji and Toru Yano 8/10/2016 w/Gedo vs. Kota Ibushi and TAKA Michinoku 9/4/2017 w/Tomohiro Ishii vs. Kota Ibushi and Kenny Omega 9/30/2018 w/Hiroshi Tanahashi, Hirooki Goto, and Kota Ibushi vs. Manabu Nakanishi, Satoshi Kojima, Hiroyoshi Tenzan, and Yuji Nagata 2/22/2020 w/Toru Yano and SHO vs. YOSHI-HASHI, Hirooki Goto, and Tomohiro Ishii 8/9/2020 w/Toru Yano and SHO vs. YOSHI-HASHI, Hirooki Goto, and Tomohiro Ishii 9/11/202

I did forget to mention that one, yes. Not sure where it ranks for me in company history but it's definitely great.

One of the best at getting the most out of very little. The Diesel, DBS, Undertaker, and Magee matches are obviously the most famous, but he could also have entertaining matches against guys like Shango or Bigelow. Very crisp and sharp-looking offense and a very realistic bumper/seller. But while Bret was great at structuring matches against lesser opponents, he could also be very dry or, dare I say, too logical. Take the cage matches against Owen and Diesel for example. They're worked very realistically as both competitors constantly try to escape, but at times it feels like that's literally all they're doing. Logical? Yes. Entertaining? Not particularly. And apart from the Mania 13 Austin match, I don't think he has a ton in the way of true, bonafide classics. That's not to say stuff like the aforementioned Diesel Survivor Series match or Austin '96 matches aren't great, but they never quite reach top-tier level for me. That all being said, I'm interested in seeing any gems from his WCW run. I've heard that it's largely bad, but I want to give it a shot. Also, are there any great Hart Foundation tag matches?