PeteF3

I never made the connection, but Russo's increased influence in '99 coincides almost exactly with Vince being taken off television. Whether it was the IPO or not something was clearly taking up a lot of McMahon's time.

As far as I know he was a pretty big star in the 50's who basically used ballerina moves in the ring to frustrate his brawny opponents. I think he was mostly a babyface though, which is funny when one thinks of the stereotypical 50s homophobic crowd, but I'm not 100% sure about that. Edit: Not a ton of info on Starr out there (not even a wiki page apparently), but this blog looks to offer some good info on him: http://rickystarr.blogspot.ca/ Starr was a huge attraction across the country at the time, and yeah, I don't think he was a heel, ever. Like Street he was also a legit tough guy and trained shooter. In the history of territorial wrestling was there ever an unlikelier development than Adrian Street getting pushed as the #1 babyface in the mid '80s in Alabama?

I think I can remember some interview of the Quebecers on the platform by Raymond. There was definitely one before their match with the Harts. Jacques pointed out, "Brothers don't always get along!" while shooting a knowing look at Ray.

The WWF non-change that confuses me the most was Mr. Hughes. Talk about a guy who could have actually used a gimmick makeover but didn't get one. Not only was he a true "WCW creation," not only was his attire not that appropriate considering there was no York Foundation to provide security for, but I don't think any wrestling roster in history has had a need for TWO "wrestle in suspenders and a necktie" guys at once.

So I'm currently engaged in a borderline-ridiculous debate with Richard Sullivan on WC and I need a question answered...did Johnny Ace have any actual booking power in All-Japan at all? Did he have any before the promotion started decaying around 1996 (also coincidentally when he first started winning the major tag titles)? I know about his supposed affair with Mrs. Baba, but the claim put forth is that Ace was actually laying out six-man tag finishing sequences, even in ones that he wasn't being involved in. The claim is so risible on the surface that I feel it's barely worth discussing, but I wouldn't mind some hard facts at my disposal which I don't actually have.

God, I can't believe I remember this...but Lawler was selling that he supposedly got black eyes from Piper at King of the Ring.

FWIW Krushchev was supposed to be a "Russian sympathizer," not a Russian proper. When he started with the gimmick in Mid-South he was first called Krusher Darsow.

Warrior's biggest personal failing as a top guy was a complete inability to come across as human. Hogan was capable of it and so was just about every other top babyface in company history. Warrior came across as cool with his running rope-shaking act and sometimes his promos could be bizarrely compelling in their own way, but at some point you have to be able to hang out with kids and do the talk show/media circuit, and Warrior was the same there as he was on television. I suspect that would have been his downfall as WWF Champion, even if he had been booked better with stronger opponents.

Gene died in 1991 and CW's debut (under a mask, with no training) was in '93. I don't see Troy Graham as really being post-modern. He had the name and the Dusty-ish manner of speaking, but he was almost always doing it as a heel without any of the "son of a plumbah" working man stuff either.

PWF Heavyweight Title changes: - Giant Baba vs. Tor Kamata (6/1/78) - Tor Kamata vs. Billy Robinson (6/12/78) - Billy Robinson vs. Abdullah the Butcher (10/18/78) - Abdullah the Butcher vs. Giant Baba (2/10/79) - Chicago, shown on AJPW Classics The first two really just need the ending clips plus the Kamata/Robinson confrontation after Kamata's fluke title win. Robinson vs. Abby is fun with Robinson pulling Abby into an actual wrestling match. There's also an earlier Robinson/Abdullah match from '76 that's Abby pulling Robinson into a brawl. NWF Heavyweight title changes in New Japan: - Johnny Powers vs. Antonio Inoki (12/10/73) - Antonio Inoki vs. Tiger Jeet Singh (3/13/75). Inoki forfeited the title out of refusal to defend against Singh, thus we got Inoki vs. Singh for the vacant title...yeah. - Tiger Jeet Singh vs. Antonio Inoki (6/26/75) I know it's Singh but God knows this feud has to be represented somehow.

And the Texas Death Match with Duncum is for the secretly-vacant WWWF title, with the WWWF acknowledging but not really acknowledging beforehand. It's a must. Bobby Duncum vs. Victor Rivera from the 4/14/75 MSG show is something that I swear jumped out to me as a real sleeper match. Damning with faint praise as it may be but it's a very rare good WWWF match that doesn't involve Backlund. Worth a look just to see if I'm crazy or misremembering. It's been a long time since I went through the Mid-Atlantic films and I didn't keep notes or anything, and another issue is that there doesn't seem to be dates for any of this stuff. All I can think of is cross-referencing the match listings with other results databases like the Mid-Atlantic Gateway or clawmaster's listings. Anyway, stuff that probably should go in that I remember: - Ole & Gene Anderson vs. Ric Flair & Greg Valentine (Cage Match). The Andersons need to be on a Yearbook in some form. - There are a number of different Ken Patera vs. Tony Atlas matches, all in a row. One of which has the best-executed "pull the tights" finish I've ever seen. - Johnny Valentine vs. Wahoo McDaniel. Actually I found this disappointing, but it still needs to be there. - Ric Flair vs. Bobo Brazil. This is the majority of the match (with the finish clipped out--arrgh) and it's Bobo winning the U.S. title. A definite early broomstick performance by Flair, but...it's Flair vs. a pretty historic figure from another time period, and it's useful to see some footage of Bobo even if it's past his prime. The guy who really came off in these clips as the Lost Worker of the '70s, to me, was Blackjack Mulligan. Very Big Boss Man-like once he turned babyface in his ability to sell and project sympathy despite usually being much bigger than his opponent. As a heel he did some advanced stuff like kneedrops off the top that the immobile '80s Mulligan could never do. Also, Cowboy Bill Watts vs. Mr. Wrestling for the Georgia Heavyweight title, from 1973. One of the closest things to a complete Watts match from near his prime (there's also a fairly decent-lengthed IWE match with Kobayashi but this is better, I think). IWE that stood out as good/memorable stuff: - Strong Kobayashi vs. Monster Rousimoff (5/6/72) - Strong Kobayashi vs. Rusher Kimura (7/9/72) - IWE title defense for Strong. I really thought this was pretty good and native vs. native in 1972, outside of a round-robin setting, was very rare. I know Kobayashi was mostly horrible but the IWE Strong seemed to be a lot more motivated. - Rusher Kimura vs. Blackjack Mulligan (10/10/73) - Strong Kobayashi/The Great Kusatsu vs. The Hollywood Blonds (1/26/74) - The original Blonds, like the Andersons, have to be on a '70s Yearbook somewhere. I haven't seen much in the way of Florida films so maybe there's something there that would trump this. - Ashura Hara vs. Mile Zrno (WWU Jr. Heavyweight title, 5/6/79) - Mighty Inoue vs. Geoff Portz (5/26/75) - Severe clippage but Portz looks incredible. Probably the True Lost Worker of the '70s. - Mighty Inoue vs. Andre the Giant (7/17/79) - Ashura Hara vs. The Dynamite Kid (7/21/79) New Japan: - Antonio Inoki vs. Johnny Powers (3/13/77) - I think there are 3 of these bouts and I may not have the right date, but it's the match with Lou Thesz as guest referee. - Antonio Inoki vs. Roland Bock (12/29/78) - from Germany - Antonio Inoki vs. Bob Roop (1/12/79) - Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Jack Brisco (4/27/79) - Tatsumi Fujinami vs. El Solitario (5/10/79)

Somehow I vividly remember this. Rude had been refusing to grant Sting any shots at the International World title, so before a Rude squash a girl comes up to him asking for his autograph, which he signs. Afterward Sting shows up and reveals the chick's autograph sheet had a carbon copy underneath that was a title match contract. Why Sting would have or need two women here escapes me. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Lionel Hutz or Hamilton Berger could get that type of contract signing thrown out in court. But this is wrestling, so the title match is on.

Going through Graham's site: 4/18/94 Raw vs. Kwang (non-title) 7/11/94 Raw vs. 1-2-3 Kid 7/30/94 Superstars vs. Bob Backlund 10/23/94 Action Zone vs. Owen 11/7 Raw, Bret/Davey Boy vs. Owen/Neidhart Somewhere indeterminately between the Hogan/Backlund/Bruno model of TV appearances and the Austin/Rock/Cena model.

I don't know the specific answer here but you beat me to a point I wanted to make about how much better AJPW seemed to be about when Heel in Peril was worked. The standout example for me would be Hansen & DiBiase (and yes, they were tag champs) defending against Yatsu & Nakano, a sleeper bout from the '80s set. The foreigners are on the defensive almost the entire match, with DiBiase working a bum knee while Hansen is played up as this lurking, devastating tornado on the apron...until he gets tagged in and promptly hurts HIS knee, and suddenly the underdog natives look to have a real chance. The whole thing seemed like the two natives just barely hanging on by doing all the right things, strategy-wise, rather than an excuse to bitch out the heels as seemed to happen so often in WWF tags. It was the wrestling equivalent to Bill Parcells' Giants beating the offensive juggernaut Bills by playing conservative, run-it-up-the-gut football and keeping that offense off the field (until they ran into a Hansen Lariat, but the thought was there). My first instinct is to say yes, it is more effective with heel champs, but I don't know if the babyfaces being bigger has anything to do with it. I would say just the opposite--that "cutting the ring in half" is a more effective storyline when it's the heels who have the size advantage. To use a shitty example, any team challenging the Colossal Connection would obviously want to keep Haku in the ring as much as possible. That's smart strategy from a kaybae standpoint and in a real-life standpoint it keeps Andre (or Warlord, or some other shitty partner you care to use) from seeing any meaningful action.

And Stan Hansen wouldn't have? In real life, beating the shit out of someone with a cowbell and chairs after the bell would probably result in a multiple-month suspension, not to mention an arrest. '90s All-Japan didn't have any less carny bullshit than JCP, they were just better at hiding it.

I absolutely can't buy the idea that Luger would have won the title if not for blabbing the finish. The WWF themselves spoiled two of the biggest shows of the year twice in two months in 1988 and kept going. Plus you had Mr. Perfect as the guest referee. Even accounting that all WWF babyfaces were instantly friends, is any other finish possible besides "Perfect screws Luger out of the belt"?

I attribute most of the Stallions' suckiness to Jim Powers, who was absolutely frigging awful. No timing, hopelessly generic offense, and he was incapable of selling, which is kind of a major problem when you're supposed to be an underdog babyface. The Stallions managed to drag down the '87 Survivor Series match despite it involving 18 other guys. I'm not a big Roma fan but he did have a pretty gorgeous sunset flip off the top.

Coming just after the post comparing Kobashi to Andre, I read this as "Andre has a pretty good tope." Yeah, I know, cool story bro.

With the '70s Breaks/Saint match above being a notable exception, you're not going to find much in the way of blood on TV. ITV had strict rules for what was allowed. House shows allowed for more leeway in terms of blood, brawling, and occasional gimmick matches, and their own card-to-card storylines. Of course, there's not much to be done from our end for enjoying any of that. The only bladejob I've seen was by Wayne Bridges in his title match against John Quinn and that resulted in an immediate stoppage. (Quinn wasn't a great worker but he was a heat magnet--one of my favorite WOS spots ever is him charging across the ring at the first round break to clobber Bridges with a big boot, which was totally awesome and unexpected after seeing countless matches with even the heels respecting the bell). In terms of TV storylines there's the Pete Roberts vs. Wayne Bridges feud from the early '80s when Bridges was Joint's "World Heavyweight Champion." Bridges got DQ'd in a non-title match while heeling it up for most of it, then got beat 2-0 in a rematch to set up a title bout at the Royal Albert Hall, with Bridges working heel for probably the only time in his career. The copy of the Albert Hall match that I have is missing the first few rounds (no falls) but would be my #1 if I had to turn in an '80s ballot for Europe tomorrow, and is one of the 3 or 4 best WOS matches I've seen. Roberts was hit or miss in Japan with more misses than hits but I've yet to see a bad performance out of him in England. Steve Veidor vs. Gwyn Davies for the British Heavyweight title from 1976 is still my favorite WOS match that I've seen. No blood but plenty of heel vs. babyface hate, actual near-falls, and neat psychology with finishes and spots building off each other throughout each decision.

Slaughter may have gotten huge reactions from people in attendance (though he didn't really get anything out of the ordinary at the house show I saw him at, which was during his title reign), but I can't in good conscience place him among the most hated heels of all-time when his run was such a dud. Not really his fault because I thought he played his role well, but the Iraqi angle turned off more people than it drew in. Jim Cornette & the Midnights in Mid-South circa 1984 seem like they would belong, if only for the 6-man in Houston teaming with Ernie Ladd that ends with an NWO-worthy trash job on the ring and ring announcer Bruce Pritchard pleading with fans to return to their seats.

Jerry Lawler being a "slow starter." (Similarly, Greg Valentine "taking fifteen minutes just to get warmed up," though that was more of a Gorilla-ism than standard practice).

I honestly don't see what's "peculiar" about any of those. The Austin thing looks that way in retrospect but wasn't at the time.

If there's one thing I love more than random '90s AJPW foreign tourers, it's random Japan masked gimmicks. The V was GCW job guy and Deep South guy Don Sanders. Also... Dick Murdoch as the Tornado and Karl Kox as the Spirit, created just as masked guys to put over the Destroyer. Davey Boy Smith as Vampiedo, Charlie Fulton as "The USSR," Ray Candy as Super Mario Man, Mile Zrno as Silver Hurricane, Mario Milano as the Barracuda, Scott Irwin as the Asteroid, and Bobby Jaggers as the Mysterious Assassin. Among others. And for "peculiar," it doesn't get much moreso than Billy, Gary, and Bobby Gaspar--Bob Orton, Tyler Mane, and Karl Moffat plus a million other guys making random appearances and run-ins. Nothing like hockey mask-wearing pirates to build a major Inoki feud around.