goodhelmet

Also, Dory Funk Jr. is known as a superb mat technician. If you have ever seen Dory Funk roll around on the mat, you have to wonder what the fuck these people are smoking.

Show me the great technical masterpieces that Ted was involved in.

I may try to listen again.

Hey Jerry, fuck shoe. You should devote an entire podcast to nothing but 1980s American commercials as seen through the eyes of someone from Surrey. My favorite is the white chocolate Hershey's bar commercial.

I was digging this until the political whining and then you lost me. Had to turn it off.

Then you are posting at fantasy land and maybe this place isn't for you because we actually watch the matches, we don't rely on rose-colored glasses and faded memories. I watch the matches as well but to be honest I'm all Mid South right now ansd I have to break from that to re watch Brody. I watched my Brody Disc last year and I remember still being impressed by him. If you guys can't handle a veiw point that disagrees with your small world then I don't know what to tell you but I don't go along just to get along. Dude, we have tons of threads here where people disagree and continue to disagree. We just want you to either stop posting as if your word is gospel or actually break shit down. Right now, you are speaking in platitudes and I am the king of platitudes. Give us some examples so we can see what you are seeing because after watching close to 100 Brody matches for the 80s project, we actually gave you specific examples of why we think he sucks.

Oh, and take this shit to the Bruiser Brody thread. This is a discussion about the 200 guys better than Brody at brawling.

I happened to have grown up in Texas during the peak of World Class and Brody was over... because he had a great look. It wasn't because he was a great worker because he left you empty back then just as he does now on videotape. You wished that you were given more than you were given. He didn't leave me wanting to see more Brody, he left me wishing someone else was in his place so the match would be better. Then you are posting at fantasy land and maybe this place isn't for you because we actually watch the matches, we don't rely on rose-colored glasses and faded memories. So you have an inherent bias against Mexican wrestlers and the cruisers. Nothing wrong with that but your disdain for the luchadores doesn't make Brody any better. Someone already said it... who are you going to believe "Some wrestler or your lying eyes?" If Brody's dropkick knocks you out. Cool. However, if you are going to call him a great mat worker, yo ugotta come with the specific examples because he is pretty much the definition of the drizzling shits on the mat.

Drugs and women

I would get bored of watching a Brody tape too. I feel ya.

1. Dick Murdoch - One of the best brawlers EVER! We should just name it the Dick Murdoch Best Brawler award and get it over with. He'll punch you right in the face, turn around and get punched in the face and then punch in you in your ear after poking you in the eye. The Ted Dibiase December 1985 matches are an excellent example of the King of Brawling. 2. Ted Dibiase - Ted Dibiase isn't a great mat technician. He is an awesome brawler. His series with Duggan, Magnum TA and Dick Murdoch are all full of great brawls. 3. Buzz Sawyer - His series with Duggan is the best example of Buzz at his best. The pictures of his Tommy Rich series in the Apter mags make you wish some full matches existed. Even without those matches, Buzz has shown enough viciousness over the years to warrant being on this list. 4. Hacksaw Duggan - Duggan was the best babyface in Mid South history and he either kept up or exceeded the performance in most of the matches we watched during the Mid South set. He has the Dibiase series, the Kamala series, and the Buzz Sawyer series. On that set, you will not find a punch thrown by Duggan worse than the best Bruiser Brody punch. Duggan in Mid South ruled. Who gives a fuck about his WWF run? 5. Butch Reed - Butch had a great run with JYD in Mid South. He also had a nasty No DQ match against Dick Slater. It is also no surprise that Doom's most celebrated match is the Street Fight against the Horsemen. 6. Jerry Lawler 7. Bill Dundee 8. Dutch Mantel - I am lumping these three together because all three of these guys have ahd great matches against each other that alone would qualify as better brawls than anything Brody ever did. Add the fact they all had bloodbaths and classics against dozens of other wrestlers and I feel safe including all of them in my Top Ten. 9 & 10. The Moondogs - First, you have some of the greatest brawls I have ever seen against the Fabulous Ones. Hell, I should have put the Fabs right there. Then, a decade later, they rip it up for a year against Jerry Lawler & Jeff Jarrett.

Exactly! But the real question is... are the 100 wrestlers listed better brawlers than BRody? Let's go down the list!!! 150?

I am not going to delete all of these threads or move them but my goal was to goad Dylan into naming 100 other brawlers who are better than Brody and then seeing if I could agree or disagree with him. Take the Brody arguments to the Brody thread. This is about the 100 wrestlers better at brawling than Brody. I'll make some comments about my picks and some of Dylan's later.

A few specific examples from viewing Brody where he pissed me or Childs off and ruined a match... Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Bruiser Brody & Jimmy Snuka (2/3 Falls) (PWF Tag, 10/06/81) - Baba gets the tag and Brody continues selling for the only person in the company that matters, the boss. Terry Funk vs. Bruiser Brody (11/30/81) - This consisted of Funk selling for Brody while Brody shrugged off Funk's offense. That seems about par for the course. The blood makes for an impressive visual here but there wasn't much to this match. Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Bruiser Brody & Stan Hansen (2/3 falls) (4/20/82) - When Jumbo was in, the gaigin gave him no love. When Baba was in, Brody lets the boss get his licks in. But damn, fuck Brody and his no-selling. He no-sells a gut wrench suplex from Jumbo and then a double Big Boot from the natives where he can't even bother taking a bump. The 1st fall ends after a sweet Lariat but Brody really brought this fall down. The 2nd fall is Hansen and Brody working over Jumbo until he can make the big tag. Nothing that really stands out besides the fact that they give Jumbo no respect. Once Baba is in, they get a DQ after using a chain. Final fall ends with either a DQ for more chain use or a double count-out. Too many flaws to recommend this. Bruiser Brody vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (Int'l Title, 10/7/82) - This was surprisingly better than I thought it would be. Jumbo actually went into the match with a game plan of taking out Brody's legs and Jumbo spends most of the match working the legs. The biggest problem is that Brody doesn't know how to sell. The guy is in a Figure 4 and leg grapevines and leg locks for 10 minutes and he shrugs it off. I would have to chalk it up to a good gameplan but Brody kind of killed it. Bruiser Brody/Stan Hansen v. Ricky Steamboat/Jay Youngblood (11/26/82) - Shit, Brody and Hansen give the faces NOTHING. What an unprofessional sack of shit Bruiser Brody is. Seriously, all take and no give on his part. Really, they treated this like an extended squash and the match suffered as a result. Bruiser Brody vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (Int'l Title, 08/81/83) - One thing I have noticed about Brody is his poor bumping. I knew he didn't sell. I didn't know he could not bump either. The problem with this match is that it has a Race-Jumbo formula with blood in the 2nd half and a slow 1st half. Scientific chin-lock Brody is not fun to watch. Bruiser Brody & Stan Hansen vs. Giant Baba & Dory Funk Jr. (PWF Tag Title, 4/25/84) - Another one of those matches where Brody and Hansen give nothing to Dory. However, instead of Terry, you have Baba in there. This leads to an average match where Baba gets control when he is in but Dory is given nothing when he is in the ring. The match ends when Dory has Brody in a spinning toe hold but Hansen gives him a lariat and Brody the win. Antonio Inoki & Seiji Sakaguchi vs. Bruiser Brody & Jimmy Snuka 11/29/85 - It is pretty hard to get behind a match when no one sells. I mean, the match was pretty good but you wouldn't know that anyone had been in control or had worked a body part. I mean Brody makes a funny face when Inoki nails a picture perfect enziguiri. Compare to Fujinami getting nailed by Murdoch. CHILDS: Antonio Inoki vs. Bruiser Brody (9/16/86) - They made it plain as day that they were going an hour, working with little urgency for the first 35-40 minutes. They basically took their normal match and stretched it over twice as long a period, which led to lots of lying around in holds. Broadway is a tough format but why do it if you're not going to take advantage of it to do something different? If you're asking me for a 60-minute commitment, I want the fucking Thrilla in Manilla, with great swings of emotion and uncertainty about the outcome throughout. The last 20 minutes were OK, with Brody allowing Inoki to look like his nominal superior. But I wouldn't want to watch this again, and I have no desire to inflict it on anyone else. CHILDS: Tenryu/Ashura Hara vs. Bruiser Brody/Jimmy Snuka (taped 11.26.87) - This never grabbed me. Lots of no selling by Brody and a shitty countout finish.

No and none at all. Why? Serious question, not trolling. In most artistic or performance media, the viewpoints of those inside the business tend to be put on a pedestal above those of the average fan. The biggest awards show in the world is the Oscars, which is entirely voted upon by movie industry insiders. Why's wrestling different? Because Bill Watts said Michael Hayes couldn't wrestle... he was wrong. Because old wrestlers praise Dory Funk Jr. Because the goal of wrestlers is different from the goals of viewers. Wrestlers are there to "fool the marks", draw, keep their opponents safe. The viewer's goal is to be entertained. If a wrestler has the same opinion as mine, he may be right but he is still a wrestler, not a viewer.

No and none at all.

Please give me some specific matches that would make me change my mind.

I was going to put Buddy Rose on the list but I think I have seen the best of Buddy Rose and I don't think anything else will pop up for the Portland set or AWA errata. I am also not currently popping in my Buddy Rose set to watch random Buddy matches. Still... love Buddy Rose!!!

OK, to spread the holiday cheer, I wanted to create a positive thread for once This isn't a GOAT thread so no need to argue about who sold out more stadiums or has more 5 star matches. This is a thread for those wrestlers you are actively excited to see more matches from. If you are one of those guys who love the shootstyle, list away! If you're a joshi creeper, list the women. If you're an old school guy who hates John Cena, list the old school guys. The only thing I ask is you give a brief explanation on why they are your favorite. If you dislike someone's favorite wrestler, we have a "Wrestlers You Hate" thread. If you see a guy on a list you want to discuss in detail, create a thread about that wrestler. Two wrestlers who would be in my Top 5-10 of all time who are currently not in my Fav Five are Kawada and Flair. I made a 50+ disc set of Kawada but I am no longer actively seeking out his matches. If I see Kawada on my screen, I will watch a match but I am not stuck in a time warp and need to just watch his matches over and over again. For Flair, the 80s project and Yearbook project has helped me realize I would defend his status as a GOAT until I am blue in the face but I am not actively seeking out Flair matches or looking for some rare Flair rarity under a rock. I felt these examples were needed to illustrate that I am not looking for GOAT's or even all-time favorites... just guys you are currently digging or looking forward to seeing more footage from. Anyway, my current Fav Five 1. Jerry Lawler - I am currently working on a Super-Mega-Ultra Jerry Lawler complete career set. He is also the guy I get most excited about when finding new matches... from any of his decades of wrestling!!! Phil Schneider will call me up randomly and say "Will, there is a new Lawler match on youtube"! I know then that Phil and I are going to spend the next 20 minutes watching Jerry Lawler. Add finding cool feuds like Lawler vs. Snowman and Lawler vs. WWF from 1994. I am also going to make an argument for him as the GOAT on a future podcast. Look for it!!! 2. Tommy Rich - I would never call Rich a GOAT but I actively look for more Rich matches. I have tried to make a Tommy Rich set but the footage isn't there to give his career justice. Even with that said, when the Tommy Rich story commercial tape surfaced, the entire tape was awesome! During the ECW run, Rich made the FBI. I couldn't get enough of that stuff. During the yearbook projects, I am looking to find room to include more Tommy Rich WCW matches. Rich also does the things I love in wrestling... punches, bleeds and cuts a believable promo. 3. Dick Murdoch - After making a nice long post about why Dick Murdoch is awesome, I did something I almost never do. I grabbed some discs from the comp I made and watched a bunch of Dick Murdoch matches. I don't know where I will find more Dick Murdoch matches but I am holding out hope some tape dealer somewhere will have a case of undiscovered Dick Murdoch matches. 4. Mark Henry - I know from the "Wrestlers You Hate" thread, there are some Mark Henry haters. Whatever. His 2011 Reign of Terror was awesome and he was THE highlight of the 2nd half of the year when Punk was stuck in HHH/Kevin Nash Hell. I was also there live for the Big Show match where they broke the ring. A dead crowd came alive as the monsters delivered a great match. Also, over the last year, I realize I really miss Mark Henry on TV. If he returns and gets half the push he had before the injury, he may be the reason I tune in to Smackdown again since I have long given up on that show. 5. Jamie Dundee - I could have put Bill Dundee here but I am more excited about finding more Jamie Dundee matches. Working on the ECW set and yearbooks renewed my interest in PG-13 and I am hoping I can get enough matches to make a PG 13 set one day. I wonder if there are any hidden WWF handhelds with PG-13 working tags. I love the PG-13 comedy they incorporate into their matches. I love how Jamie Dundee stalled through a Tracy Smothers match in IWA-MS and drove the bloodthirsty crowd nuts for ten minutes. I love watching yearbook segments and how they could go from heel to face with the snap off a finger and you accept them in both roles. I loved how Dylan Waco created a PG-13 thread and had incredulous wrestling fans who knew in their hearts that PG-13 wasn't one of the Greatest tag teams they have ever seen question his sanity. This is my current Fav Five. A year ago, it would have been different and in a year, it will change again.

I need some specefic matches from the Mid South set where Hacksaw's offense looked weak and clumsy.

This is a direct challenge to Dylan MF'N Waco. I think the WON award for Best Brawler is the Bruiser Brody Award. If it isn't, fuck it. I thnk we can safely make a list of 100 better brawlers who are more deserving of the award. I'll get the list started with some Mid South and Memphis guys... 1. Dick Murdoch2. Ted Dibiase3. Buzz Sawyer4. Hacksaw Duggan5. Butch Reed6. Jerry Lawler7. Bill Dundee8. Dutch Mantel9 & 10. The Moondogs Edit : Merry Xmas Everyone !!!

It's his look. He looks awesome and has one of the best wrestler names ever. I'd imagine for a lot of people, myself included, Brody was over with them before ever even seeing a match thanks to the magazines. When I was a teenager I loved the guy for years before ever seeing him in a match. By the time I did, all those negatives either didn't matter or went unnoticed, at least that's how it was for me. And since I finally first saw him in some World Class matches where he was a no selling monster/ enforcer brought in to kick heel ass, I wanted him to be a no selling guy. So I'd guess that for a lot of people the aura was always enough. This is the best argument for being a Brody fan I have read. With tht said, for a guy who loves blood, guts and brawling.... Brody had the blood down but his brawling kind of sucks. Ooh new thread idea.

I would rather watch 100 Abdullah matches than 10 Brody matches. With that said, Brody discussion has been broken off into its own thread.

I think there are enough people on both sides of this fence we can break it off into its own thread. I know jdw has been preaching about hating Brody for 20 years but most of us didn't have the same access to dial-up he did back in the back in the day. I also have some specific matches I can point to later that illustrate why I hate watching Brody wrestle.

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard. Just watch a lot of his Japan stuuf and matches with Ric Flair in St. Louis. If you don't think he is an adept mat wrestler then I don't know what to tell you. I loved Brody in the 80's and still love him now. If you don't like Brody that's fine but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch of anyones imagination. I have saw too many good matches from him to even entertain any viewpint that he was terrible. His peers seem to hold his work in high regard. The one issue that some of his peers have with him was his atttitude at times. In a time when a lot of guys with heavily muscled bodies came on the scene, Brody was a big guy with great athleticism and had charisma that stood out unlike some of the muscle guys that came on the scene in the 80's. Working on the 80s project for New Japan, All Japan and Texas, I have seen tons of Brody. Brody's biggest obstacle is that Stan Hansen was standing right there next to him and was better than Brody at every aspect of wrestling. What athleticism did Brody display? Running around the arena swinging a chain? No-selling offense from everyone except Giant Baba and Inoki (the guys writing the checks)? I agree with the charisma thing but only when it comes to appearance. You look at him and think "Shit is going to go down" and then you watch him wrestle and shrug your shoulders and shit never goes down. Also, this is a pet peeve of mine but I could give a shit what other wrestlers think of his work. They don't watch the TV. Maybe Jingus will be more sympathetic to this position. Sometime tomorrow, after the presents are unwrapped and the kids are calm, I'll sneak away and give some specific examples of Brody being horrible when watching the All Japan and New Japan footage.