goodhelmet

No, the criticism levied towards the gimmicks (especially on the first 2 shows) was that it was stupid to put garbage on the pre-show if you are trying to attract fans who turned away from wrestling because of said garbage from other companies. The pre-show for DoN had a mixed reaction while the pre-show for Fyterfest was universally panned. It is ok to support a company and cheer for a company while simultaneously criticizing a company for doing stupid shit. The reason that the Librarians and Dark Order gimmicks have been panned over and over again is because they have been on every show. The Dark Order was pretty lame at All Out... fast forward to FFTF and they were still lame (not wrestling wise but gimmick wise). The Librarians were lame at All Out... fast forward to FFTF and they still feel lame. Hell, the main criticism isn't even with gimmicks themselves but the actual presentation.

Damn... how far outside of Boston do you have to be before you aren't advertising Boston as a location?

Week 2 - Boston Week 3 - Philly

Half of Demon's head is soaked with blood. His blue mask is dark blue on one side.

Fuuuuccckkkkk.... the hammer.

I hope the top 2 matches deliver because I have not enjoyed this show so far.

I hope the top 2 matches deliver because I have not enjoyed this show so far.

So Killer Kross was the big surprise? Um ok

These women are reckless lol... not necessarily good, just reckless.

I think magnum is in rough shape and stuck in a wheelchair .

I get it. It doesn't seem like joking because you haven't really been critical of their misfires up to this point. However, you should be given the benefit of the doubt.

https://twitter.com/deesnider/status/1157122512460767232?s=20

The Librarians do suck. The comedy garbage also sucks. It's also lower card bullshit and won't help elevate any of the talent doing that shit anytime soon. For someone who has spent his entire time here bashing WWE and reviewing horrible wrestling promotions (plus ECW) to all of a sudden turning a blind eye to bad wrestling segments is quite jarring.

https://twitter.com/davidbix/status/1156024750549819392?s=20

If they sell out this first tv taping while raw and SD are doing 2k-9k for an already established product, it's going to send a strong message. I want to see how quickly tickets move for the first show.

I agree that it is unimportant as a standalone bad gimmick. However, combined with the Dark Order, the Nakazawa match, parts of the gimmick battle royale... it forms a picture that says we will embrace the worst of wrestling as much as the good stuff. That is what is concerning. Hell, as mentioned already, it wouldn't even be bad if Bates and Avalon actually embraced it fully and looked and acted the part.

I haven't heard anyone but you defend this Librarian nonsense. You dismiss valid criticisms of the gimmick. If the company is committed to the gimmick... then commit to the gimmick itself, not to a bad shooty backstage "idea of the gimmick" booking nonsense. On one hand, you have MJF who lives the gimmick 24/7, acts the same way off screen as he does on screen. You have Moxley who comes in like a mad dog to prove he can wrestle and wasn't the guy he was forced to be in WWE. You have Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy as a tag team with a gimmick that doesn't seem forced even though it is hokey as hell. I mean, a dinosaur with a masters degree? Yet, nobody is complaining about that. Everyone is hyping these guys up and rightfully so. The biggest gripes so far online (here, DVDVR, reddit, Meltzer) I have seen revolve around the Librarians and the Dark Order. It isn't because they can't wrestle but because people look at it as hokey shit that makes it impossible to get behind. Almost all of the criticisms of wrestling deal with acts that are bad and stupid. You watched TNA. You saw bad and stupid. You watched ECW and old WCW. They had bad and stupid on their shows also. They got criticized. The Librarians and Dark Order gimmicks as they currently stand are bad and stupid. I wasn't aware that the people rooting for AEW to succeed wanted bad and stupid in their wrestling product. You call it pastiche but it isn't really celebrating anything. Plus, if you really want to celebrate the gimmick... then commit to the gimmick 100%. Avalon and Bates need to change their gear, their hairstyles, their mannerisms, and their wrestling style to reflect the gimmick. THAT would be celebrating it. That would be pastiche. A bad gimmick that the performers fully embrace and forces the crowd to get behind. It's actually one of my biggest gripes with AEW as it stands. Eventually, AEW is going to have to decide what they want their identity to be. Do they want to be the new cutting edge wrestling company that brings back old fans while creating new ones? Do they want to be the company that devotes itself to insiders and a small, loyal fanbase? Do they want to embrace the best AND worst parts of wrestling history? On one hand, you have Tony Khan saying he wants wins and losses to matter and a show inspired by old Mid South wrestling. On the other hand, you have this weird hybrid of kayfabe/this isn't real/ it's all tongue in cheek conflict on their BTE program. On the one hand, you have Brandi Rhodes throwing shade at WWE. On the other hand, she goes out and makes all the same mistakes that Stephanie McMahon makes on camera. On one hand, wrestling matters and should be taken seriously. On the other, it doesn't and we have this comedy hardcore match to show you. I know these guys don't hate each other but I want them to act like they do. But I want them to act like they do. I know that Bates and avalon aren't Librarians... but I want them to act like Librarians. I know the Dark Order aren't evil... and aren't capable of pulling off evil... so they should scrap the current gimmick completely.

@DMJ Your post will not be deleted.

Ok, as we move forward, all of the big shows will have their own topics (these will include PPVs and any free streaming shows on BR Live). A new topic should be created for each week of TV. If they keep BTE after tv starts, I'll probably create a BTE thread. This thread will either be locked or continue as a news thread. That's the tentative plan moving forward. I am hoping to have some free time where I can also reorganize the other wrestling folders.

I watched Page vs. Sabian tonight since I missed it last night. In isolation, it was a good match with decent leg selling by Page and good stuff from Sabian. It didn't make sense if you're trying to get Page up to Jericho's level. They could have had a nice sprint with Page catching Sabian and putting him away quickly. Also, there was more than an hour to go in this show and the crowd was already spent. So, good match but bad booking. I liked all of the stuff with Jericho in the post match and the Jericho interview. Edit: I need to mention thatthis is another match that would have gotten over so much more in another environment, with air conditioning of course.

I was thinking the masked guy could be Ralphus 2.0 but with wrestling ability.

I just rewatched the 3 way tag. I didn't give enough props to Evans and Angelico last night. They looked really good when they were involved and played their parts well. As for Dark Order, maybe they aren't used to the evil stable gimmick but they don't wrestle like they are evil, sinister, dangerous, dark, whatever. They wrestle like a couple of assholes who think they're smarter than the faces. Grayson plays to the crowd way too much and makes really stupid facial expressions. I'm not even opposed to that but not for the gimmick they are portraying. If I were in AEW, the first thing I do is lock everyone in a room and find a way to repackage these two. Have a BTE episode where they fire the minions and throwaway the cheap ring gear. Keep the Uno mask though. Then align them with another asshole like MJF or Jericho as stooges. Not everyone can be Michael Hayes and that's ok. Being Buddy Roberts isn't a bad spot to be in.

Explain the gimmick to me, please. What is over our heads? Like I said, I loved watching them wrestle last night. I just think the entire evil empire garbage isn't believable or entertaining. What are we missing?

I won't be watching but I will be reading this thread. Cruiserweight Championship: Drew Gulak (c) vs. Tony Nese Aleister Black vs. Cesaro SmackDown Tag Team Championship: Daniel Bryan & Rowan (c) vs. The New Day vs. Heavy Machinery Raw Tag Team Championship: The Revival (c) vs. The Usos SmackDown Women's Championship (2-on-1 Handicap Match): Bayley (c) vs. Alexa Bliss & Nikki Cross Braun Strowman vs. Bobby Lashley (Last Man Standing Match) United States Championship: Ricochet (c) vs. AJ Styles Roman Reigns & The Undertaker vs. Shane McMahon & Drew McIntyre (No Holds Barred Match) WWE Championship: Kofi Kingston (c) vs. Samoa Joe Winners Take All -- Seth Rollins & Becky Lynch (c) vs. Baron Corbin & Lacey Evans (Extreme Rules Match)

I think the only reason people aren't losing their shit is because of the crowd heat. If this took place at Fyter Fest, I think the vibe here would be much different. To each his own, I guess.