ohtani's jacket

The Gotch footage jumps around a bit. Looks like something went wrong with the conversion as it's sped up. Pretty cool bout. Inoki's never going to be a popular worker around these parts, but I think if you're judging him on the 80s set then it's a bit like judging Flair on his 90s work. That 80s stuff really ought to be seen as post-prime footage where every decent match is a bonus ala Fujinami in the 90s. Post-coup at any rate. He's not a very theatrical or dramatic worker, and his matches get weaker when he has to work that style, and he's not the most pure technician either, but he has a distinct brand of charisma and a singular focus to strong style that makes him interesting to watch. And even though he's not wildly expressive when he cocks that fist you know he means business.

There aren't 150 people who post about old-school wrestling on PWO. This thing obviously got bigger through Twitter and the podcast networks. It wouldn't surprise me if the final results are now less PWO-oriented than if only the forum regulars had voted. The wider pull of voters is similar to what happened in 2006 when people were invited from outside Smarkschoice to participate and a better snapshot of 2016 vs. 2006 than a smaller turnout would of been. But yes, Flair is in danger of not finishing #1.

Next up is the Kyoko match from Big Egg Universe. I've always maintained that his show was a disaster and there's probably a bit of bias against it creeping into my thoughts, but really this was the most generic Kansai match imaginable. Perhaps it had to be that way to play to such a large audience, but for the discerning film critic type at home it wasn't up to snuff. I did wonder if I would have enjoyed it live. I mean I hated the giant swing on the ramp just as I hate all ramp spots, but if I'd been there live I probably wouldn't have had a bug up my arse about it. In any event, their Thunder Queen II match was way better.

Watched the Chigusa match from '95. Decent Queen Bitch battle between two workers cut from the same cloth. A bit too slow paced and deliberate at times, and Kansai's selling was overly theatrical at points, but it was the type of bout where they tease a bunch of finishers and try to stretch out the drama. The constant shoot kicks were repetitive after a while and borderline masochistic. It was nice that there was a winner, but the match taking place on Kansai's home soil made the result uber predictable, and the fact they'd used Chigusa so often to put over their talent made the win fairly meaningless.

He said it was uncomfortable to watch. He didn't say Hotta was directly responsible. Plum died because she didn't visit a doctor.

The Cutie Suzuki matches were fun. There was a clear and obvious dynamic between the pair that was similar to the matches Kansai had with Ozaki. In fact, they aped a lot of the stuff Kansai did with Oz (or vice versa.) I'm not really seeing a problem with Kansai as a singles worker. She's formulaic, and repetitive in the sense that she always uses the same spots, but she's killer on offence and great at projecting her character. I realised watching this stuff that the selling issues don't matter to me. I care more about the ebb and flow than an adherence to selling and so I can live with quick switches from defence to offence if the stuff they're doing is cool. And I think in most bouts there's an overall selling of fatigue toward the end and all the emotions that come with that. The selling issues that bug people about Joshi bug me more about men's styles that are pushed as more fundamentally sound than women's wrestling but veer into the same territory, but I think that's a kneejerk reaction. Two things I do agree about with Dylan is that she had a short peak and she didn't work a lot of classics. My two favourite Kansai singles matches ('96 vs. Oz and '97 vs. Fukuoka) are matches that would no doubt be divisive in terms of whether people think they're four stars let alone a classic, but when you factor in the tag stuff she has to be top 10 for the 90s boom years. Possibly even top 5.

I got a kick out of watching Inoki wrestle a potbellied Akram Pahalwan under the rounds system in 1976. Worth it alone to see the fashions Pakistani gentlemen were wearing in the 1970s and the subtle heeling from Inoki's camp.

I actually have a question about what's going to happen to this part of the board after the results are revealed. Is it going to be locked? Should we start using the Microscope, etc. to talk about candidates instead of the nominee threads?

I really liked the Robinson/Inoki match. If I'd made a list, I would have put serious consideration into voting for Inoki in the lower half of the ballot. He simply had too many good matches from 1969-75 to ignore. And it wasn't a case that he was in there with the best talent of his day. I genuinely believe he added something tangible to the bouts through his presence and his fundamental knowledge of holds. I don't think he was ever truly great, but I sat through three broadways and didn't get bored which has to count for something.

I stumbled upon quite a short match she had with Bison Kimura in '96. The strike exchanges were as good as you'd expect and it had one of the most badass finishes I've seen in a long time, but I did notice this time that Kansai's early control section was kind of bleh. Not sure an 11 minute match needed the half crab. She'd also put on a lot of weight between 1993 and '96 and her rope running, which was never that graceful to begin with, looked pretty bad. Awesome transitions, though. Creative use of the tassels on Bison's costume and a brilliant finish that was as good as anything I've seen a strike based wrestler do during the entire length of this project.

It's the one from Ohio and I saw it on YouTube, so yes and yes.

I watched two Kansai matches I never really cared for in the past -- vs. Yamada (10/93) and vs. Inoue (11/93). The Yamada match was WAY better than I remember it being. That change in perspective is probably due to a change in taste but for whatever reason I found the strikers' duel utterly compelling this time round. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it was one of the better non-shoot style striker vs. striker contests I've seen. Even the submissions, which I thought would be blatant down time, were short and focused. They didn't have any epic narrative in mind. They weren't going to the end of the line where both women gave it their all; it was a competitive singles bout that played to both their strengths and was well sold compared to Joshi stereotypes. The only critcism I had of it was that it was too short. Other than that, I thought each beat was great. Kyoko Inoue wasn't a pure striker, but the pair had a great match based on what you might call "flash counters." You could run the rule over the bout and find instances where they didn't sell right, but it was the most engrossing styles clash I've seen in ages. The Inoue bout felt like Kansai was taking on a peer at her level regardless of the fact that Inoue couldn't kick or strike as hard as Yamada. There was a certain predictability to the finish of both bouts compared to other 90s Japanese bouts, but despite immersing myself in Joshi and getting back into the rhythm of the bouts, I found myself enjoying this bout more than any men's stuff I'd reviewed for the GWE. Kansai is such a brilliant seller, for example, that I was more engaged in these bouts than anything I saw from Muto, Chono or Hase. I'm not trying to upset anyone with that comment. I just got into a proper groove watching this stuff, and I think Kansai was a stellar pro-wrestler in singles and in tags.

I've been watching some Inoki matches from the 70s and it's been interesting to say the least. I watched a 1979 match against Bob Roop that was a bit too grinding when it came to the matwork and featured a lot of BS with the outside manager, but that was close to the 1980 cutoff where I think it ought to be expected that he's not that great. The Destroyer bout from '71 was disappointing but thatwas a pretty average performance from Beyers. Watching Inoki try to have a scientific title match with Ernie Ladd was interesting. I'm not sure how much of a success it was, but it was interesting. He had a neat catchweight bout with Hoshino in the late 70s and I thought his match with Sakaguchi in '74 was good. I don't think he was ever a "super worker," but he was far from a dead weight. The simple answer is that he was Inoki, but I think that means something different in the West than in Japan.

Man, this took me back to the days when I was buying tapes and even when I first came to Japan and rented them from Champion. These two were such favourites of mine when I was young that I was kind of afraid it wouldn't hold up, but I'm pleased to say it held up pretty well. There are things Ozaki does where she's just not big enough for them to be believable (a lot of her strikes lack any real force, for example), and they could have trimmed the fat a bit here and there, but I liked the way that both women sold. Ozaki was always brilliant at selling, and i thought rolling herself into the fetal position (or a little ball) to guard herself from Kansai's kicks was a nice visual. She also did a great job of contorting herself when she went for submissions on Kansai. That wasn't any real surprise, though. What surprised me was how good Kansai was. It seems that she was a better seller than I remember. The Fujiwara armbar sell that was mentioned above (and the awesome counter) was a great piece of selling, but she was solid all round on offence and defence. The layout was a bit "samey" in that they repeated the same sequences over and over. Some of the submission parts were well worked and others felt like restholds. I didn't much care for the stuff outside the ring but it was kind of necessary to keep things rolling. There was a risk that the match could have been choppy with all the moving about they did, but there were a lot of cool spots and I found it engrossing for such a long bout. I don't think it had a big enough arc to call it a great match, and I'd probably call it more solidly good than brilliant, but I liked it a lot.

Fun match. Felt like a superior version of an early UWF-i main event. Ogawa's awkwardness prevented it from being better, but like Chad said, he still managed to appear as a threat to Hashimoto. This was a match Hash couldn't afford to lose and Ogawa came across as the world's most dangerous banana peel.

It's available via RealHero's account This is their 2013 WNC match and not the 2007 MUGA bout I was really after, but at this point I'll take anything. Nishimura is such a joy to watch. Aside from Fujiwara I can't think of any Japanese male workers who bring me as much joy as Nishimura. This match with Taijiri wasn't all that great in terms of what you'd expect from other workers in similar circumstances, but I could watch Nishimura working holds all day long and Tajiri was game enough to make it worth my while.

So, I watched Kansai vs. Hotta for the express purpose of deciding who was the better worker in *that match (not overall), and I think it was pretty clearly Kansai. The match itself is not that long, but it builds to a decisive finish and you get to see both women on offence and defence. Kansai is so much more expressive, which makes her offence more interesting and her selling better. Hotta tries to sell in the bout, but she's not very good at it and the best you can really say is that she tried. Kansai had a few awkward moments, particularly on transitions, but she came across as a much more dynamic performer who knew how to sell better than Hotta even if it was face to canvas stuff. But y'know, face to canvas is a better way to sell than back to canvas if you can't make awesome facial expressions. Kansai didn't really sell beating the count in a great way, but it was effective enough, and she was just more engaging all match long.

What's the difference between this thread and JvK reviews pimped matches from late 90s-10s? They appear to be totally different beasts as far as I can see: Apart from jdw that once, I don't recall anyone coming in behind me with contrasting reviews in that thread. I'm not complaining, but it does account for me being increasingly tetchy in this one. But in that thread you write contrasting reviews of matches that have generally received a lot of praise. So how can you get tetchy about someone doing the same thing to your reviews? My focus in this thread was always on Hase and clearing up what I think about him as a worker. I'm not going to spend a couple of weeks taking a half hour out of my night just to have a go at another poster. Anyway, I will steer clear of this sort of thing in the future.

Completely disagree with this review. You might have picked up on it on the commentary, but I think it's a key part of the match's story to understand that both guys were amateur wrestling greats who went to the same college. Hence, the match is basically worked like two old jocks who want to prove they're the better wrestler, it makes perfect sense that the match would be worked around matwork and one upsmanship. Since matwork was so rare in AJ as you mentioned, that actually makes the match feel pretty special when watched in context and I'd argue what they did was the exact opposite of lying in holds since both guys were constantly struggling for position and looking for submissions. Those opening minutes are what sets the dynamic for the rest of the match, so it's far from meaningless or blown. That figure four spot you ragged on isn't just mindless screaming and grunting but the match's big climax with Hase selling being trapped in excruciating pain while the jock in him can't help but egg Akiyama to do it even harder. Choshu vs. Hase had a similar narrative because Choshu also went to the same university, but even with those senior/junior archetypes in place the bout didn't do much for me. I prefer matwork that is a lot more fluid and has more movement; and considering this was just after the height of Pancrase & MMA inspired RINGS matwork, it was too static for me. I may have liked it more if it had been grittier and if I ever re-watch the bout again I may notice details I missed like them fighting for position. I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I keep having to remind myself that Hase was a Greco-Roman amateur and his natural skill set was probably a bit different from most of the freestyle wrestlers. Maybe the "old jocks" thing works in the context of a part-time wrestler working an exhibition bout. Akiyama was still pretty young here, though. All Japan kind of ran old grumpy vet vs. junior into the ground, so I guess jokey alumni was a decent change of pace. I don't think going back to the mat w/ that double leglock spot worked because nobody in All Japan is going to submit from that. When you switch from legwork to throws, you usually leave the legwork behind. If you're going back to it, I think it ought to be the finish otherwise it creates an unnatural rhythm. For what it's worth, I thought the line on Hase's All Japan work was that it was disappointing. I'm kind if surprised that people have been warm to it.

What's the difference between this thread and JvK reviews pimped matches from late 90s-10s?

Hase is not some unknown guy. He's had a good rep since the moment I came online.

I certainly belong in that category, but it doesn't apply to everyone. WingedEagle wrote a great post recently about why he prefers more traditional matwork. For me, the tricked out stuff is a preference. I don't expect it from styles that never exhibited it, but I'm hard on Japanese big league matches that aren't "shooty" enough and Euro matches that are too Americanized.

Parv, I don't think anyone is going to dislike Hase because of what I wrote. And I don't think anyone will refrain from voting for him because of this thread. I don't really see this thread as a "battle." Ideally, it would be full of discourse, but Hiroshi Hase isn't exactly a contentious topic. If I hadn't replied to this topic it would have been you pimping a string of Hase matches with little or no response. Is that what you'd prefer? I think it's more suited to a review site/blog or a podcast than a message forum, but if you want to lay your stuff out there without any feedback just say. Your sudden Hase love piqued my interest in his stuff because Jerome and Williams had commented on my criticisms of him when I watched the Tenryu match. I don't agree with most of the people I enjoy reading on this site and thought we were thick skinned enough to not like the things that each other say. The results will bear out how people feel about Hase. I can't pretend to like him anymore than I do. Given my track record, a year from now I could love him.

I think everybody agrees on Hase's best matches. I just don't like him enough that his supplementary stuff is that interesting. I'm not sure who his US equivalent is because I tend to compare like with like and there are plenty of Japanese workers I think he is comparable with. I get why you like him, but like I said, my thoughts were in line with Meltzer's ratings. Even with matches I didn't love I could see how he could give that rating. You went about a half star beyond what I thought was reasonable for many of his bouts. So, that half star represents your enthusiasm for him I guess.

Hiroshi Hase vs. Kenta Kobashi (8/26/97) This was okay but nothing really special. I imagine a lot of All Japan vs. New Japan dream matches would be that way. It was pretty much your classic slow build wrestling match, and I can see how people who like that type of build would enjoy this, but to me a lot of the submission work was drawn out and the throws weren't that exciting either. I could see that they were working around Kobashi's limitations on the mat, but why bother going there if it's not a guy's strength? I get a bit restless when I'm detached from a bout and so the strikes and what not seemed ho-hum to me and the finishing stretch felt like me going through the motions of watching a finishing stretch, but on an intellectual level it as all fairly straight forward and serviceable. I think I'm done with Hase now. He was a good worker whose biggest strength was his versatility, but I wouldn't rank him as a great or even excellent wrestler. Just not good enough in any one particular area aside from bleeding, which isn't high on my list of criteria. He had the ability but didn't apply it in a way that really resonates with me. On to someone else.