ohtani's jacket

Michel Allary vs. Micha Nador (1961) This was a good example of the skill level that most European heavyweights possessed in the 1960s. It was also a good example of common European tropes like how to finish a short one fall bout with a count out or injury instead of a decisive fall. Worth watching to see the standard of European heavyweight wrestling in this era, but won't satisfy the great match hunters. Lino Di Santo vs. Horst Hoffman (1961) My esteemed colleague Jetlag has already stated that a younger Horst Hoffman wrestles exactly the same way that he does in 1970s All Japan, but I would emphasize what a physical specimen he appeared to be. He wore tights in All Japan and appeared to be physically smaller, but here he was as close to prime condition as imaginable and it seemed the only thing that stopped him from accessing "beast mode" was respect for his French hosts. Like his future All Japan comrade, he seemed a cut above his opponent but only made a show of his physical strength on his bridging fallaway slam. If you've ever been intrigued by Hoffman in All Japan footage then you ought to make time to watch this.

I just wanna counter what Parties said about the Rey feud by saying that was one of the top highlights of Mysterio's WWE run and not simply a case of Rey being Rey. I don't think Jericho is a great worker by any stretch of the imagination. I mean Reed Richards or Plastic Man could stretch further than any notion of Jericho being a great worker, but that was a good match-up that went beyond being a beneficial match-up for Jericho to the pair simply having chemistry.

I'm guessing you've got quite the pad on this desert island.

How do you define trades? Within Volk Han's speciality he had a knack for selling, building exciting spots and sequences, coming up creative and dramatic finishes, and even a bit of comedy, to go along with his technical ability. I'm pretty sure if you binge watched him you'd find subtle shifts in style, match type, and role. Does trade mean something as broad as high flying, brawling and heel vs face, or does it refer to tools of the trade as well? Volk seems fairly well rounded for a specialist. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

Don't you think it's kind of disappointing that they never call WAR "war" on commentary? Meanwhile, the Pallos refer to their promotion WAW as "war" because of the way we pronounce the "aw" sound in British English. How's that for some sidetracking?

Keiji Muto & Hiroshi Hase vs Shinya Hashimoto & Masa Chono (11/4/93) This was good stuff. The first couple of times I watched it I thought it was like reading a Silver Age Justice League comic compared to All Japan's Fantastic Four in that it was polished by lacked the dynamic layout of Kirby's artwork and the depth of Lee's storytelling. But for a match that featured only one guy I like, the other three did a bang up job of keeping me hooked. All of the exchanges between Hashimoto and Hase were great and reminded me of how good their singles matches were. Hashimoto brought out the best in Hase (from where I'm sitting at least), but I also enjoyed the Hase/Chono exchanges here more than I ever dreamed I would. I especially liked the early exchange where Hase was scurrying to escape Chono's attacks like a crab on its back. Chono vs. Muto is a match-up that's never appealed to me, but the brand of wrestling they plied was smooth and well executed, and didn't look out of place alongside the Hashimoto and Hase exchanges. They flirted with the tag wrestling tropes that were popular in All Japan and Joshi at the time, but didn't lay it on as thick. I think you could argue that there was a double FIP segment with Hase then Muto, but it didn't really last as long as a FIP segment does and wasn't nearly as pronounced. Part of that was because Hase's selling on the outside was kind of lousy, but the tempo was also somewhere between the slow burning/big pay-off All Japan style and the ultra fast Joshi style, and Hase was more ura-nage happy at the end than near death. That was okay, though. While it didn't have the depth of an All Japan tag, or the emotion of a Joshi bout, it was entertaining and swashbuckling in a sense (and I do mean that as a pun.) The finish had a kick to it and reminded me of a catch and shoot buzzer beater, and I guess you could buy into the psychology of former rivals linking up to take home the big prize if you wanted to psycho-analyse the bout. Can't say Hase looked like any more of a world-beater but it was a lot of fun.

Keiji Muto & Hiroshi Hase vs Shinya Hashimoto & Masa Chono (11/4/93) This was good stuff. The first couple of times I watched it I thought it was like reading a Silver Age Justice League comic compared to All Japan's Fantastic Four in that it was polished by lacked the dynamic layout of Kirby's artwork and the depth of Lee's storytelling. But for a match that featured only one guy I like, the other three did a bang up job of keeping me hooked. All of the exchanges between Hashimoto and Hase were great and reminded me of how good their singles matches were. Hashimoto brought out the best in Hase (from where I'm sitting at least), but I also enjoyed the Hase/Chono exchanges here more than I ever dreamed I would. I especially liked the early exchange where Hase was scurrying to escape Chono's attacks like a crab on its back. Chono vs. Muto is a match-up that's never appealed to me, but the brand of wrestling they plied was smooth and well executed, and didn't look out of place alongside the Hashimoto and Hase exchanges. They flirted with the tag wrestling tropes that were popular in All Japan and Joshi at the time, but didn't lay it on as thick. I think you could argue that there was a double FIP segment with Hase then Muto, but it didn't really last as long as a FIP segment does and wasn't nearly as pronounced. Part of that was because Hase's selling on the outside was kind of lousy, but the tempo was also somewhere between the slow burning/big pay-off All Japan style and the ultra fast Joshi style, and Hase was more ura-nage happy at the end than near death. That was okay, though. While it didn't have the depth of an All Japan tag, or the emotion of a Joshi bout, it was entertaining and swashbuckling in a sense (and I do mean that as a pun.) The finish had a kick to it and reminded me of a catch and shoot buzzer beater, and I guess you could buy into the psychology of former rivals linking up to take home the big prize if you wanted to psycho-analyse the bout. Can't say Hase looked like any more of a world-beater but it was a lot of fun.

If the discussion is about whether he was a great rudo then of course I'm going to compare him to other great rudos, especially his peers. Being a capable rudo seems a fair way off what Jimmy was implying. I think Panther was good as the third guy in a rudo trio with two other charismatic performers but never that good as the second guy, and I can t remember him ever having a great lead performance In a trios bout. Having said that, I really don't like mask ripping in trios matches and that was often a staple of Panther's rudo work. I agree that he gets a free ride. He's a guy that was always known as that great lucha worker and mat worker that everyone talked about who never got much scrutiny. I admit I have an idealised version of Panther and that many of my disappointments are because he didn't match my ideal, but I don't see why his bad work should be brushed under the carpet just because he's Blue Panther and a luchador and lucha needs all the support it can get.

I don't even think he was impressive at that, but honestly being the foil, or supporting act, in a trios match is such an important part of a rudo's role that it's still a fail in my book.

Keep watching for it.

I don't think Panther is a great rudo. In fact, I find a lot of his rudo trios work to pretty weak in comparison to guys like Satanico, Emilio Charles Jr, Fuerza Guerrera or Fiera. As a singles match worker, I guess he was better as a rudo, but he was never really booked in apuesta feuds so it wasn't a big part of his character.

I don't think Breaks would have gotten over in either America or Japan, but that's a discussion for the Breaks thread. I don't really get why people care about those sort of things either. The most important thing to me is how good a guy is in their natural setting not an imaginary one.

Why would you give Tenryu points for SWS or WAR? Both promotions were failures and the only reason Tenryu "traveled" so much is because they were losing money. You're rewarding mediocrity and punishing excellence in terms of Misawa's drawing power.

Do intangibles take into account the claims of over-emoting and too much crying, a lack of character development, or the way he'd get the yips any time a mic was placed in his face? Because if they factor in the flip-side to traditional Japanese stoicism then they should weigh in some of Kobashi's negatives too. Regarding Kobashi's appeal, Japanese fight pundits have traditionally favoured the underdog, the guy who puts up a fight despite being hopelessly out matched, or the guy who shows good technique regardless of being outclassed, and I think that had a lot to do with Kobashi's popularity as a young man. Of course, it's easier for us to relate to those performances than the restraint other performers show, but I think rather than some kind of universal appeal, or intrinsic "likeability," it's something that we as a foreign audience are drawn to when trying to decipher and decode a text we don't fully understand. I don't think it's a surprise that the word charisma comes up so often in conversations about foreign workers as that's something that people cling to when they're trying to make sense of what they're watching. With Kobashi, I think he had as much direct appeal to his audience as Misawa and wasn't simply a type of charismatic performer who could get over anywhere.

The biggest problem with Rudge is that he only appeared on ITV during the 80s a total of 22 times. I'm fortunate in that I think I've seen most of those, but I don't think you can really talk about Rudge having volume. Granted, a lot of those 22 matches are good, but you look at years where Rudge would have been in his prime like '80-82 and we have a total of 4 matches. That was his choice to tour foreign lands, but I can't stay I'm a huge fan of his later ITV appearances or his Reslo work. His '87 Germany work is better than anything he did on ITV after '85.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 54 Jim Breaks vs. Johnny Saint (3/1/86) I've seen this before at some point but was able to enjoy it more this time as two vets in "touring match" mode. Saint looked better than Breaks, which is in keeping with how good he's looked in '87-88 footage lately and the fact he was younger. Breaks looked like the guy who appeared on ITV in '86 and '87 as well as in later handhelds. The '84 classic with Collins is a clear end point for high quality Breaks, but this isn't bad as far as either Screensport or post-prime Breaks go. Prince Mann Singh vs. Bearcat Brody (WAW circa 1990) Young Apollo vs. Sledgehammer Baker (WAW circa 1990) These were from a short-lived TV series that Pallo's WWA promotion had that aired on Central TV in the Midlands. I didn't think the matches were particularly bad (of course they weren't great), but apparently they were aimed at the American market and put Pallo offside with his fellow promoters. Watch the latter bout if you're interested in them from either a kitsch or historical point-of-view since it has a Cornette style manager in Megamouth Vincent and a worker who's kind of trying to be jacked up. Scrubber Daly vs. Greg Valentine (2/12/85) Part of him wondered if Max Crabtree would rather incredulously have his son beat Scrubber Daly but then sanity prevailed and Valentine wasn't able to continue because of injury. He did get the surprisingly opening fall, though, which meant he was a talent. Steve Wright vs. Larry Cameron (Eurosport circa 1991) Steve Wright & Dave Taylor vs. Larry Cameron & The Barbarian (Eurosport circa 1991) These were crap as you can imagine. Sometimes I daydream that there are endless Steve Wright matches out there like the Bull Blitzer match against Marty Jones and the long early 70s match against Keith Martinelli.

The early part of this reminded me of things I don't like about Hase such as the way he'd dance while he had someone in a hold, or clap his hands and point to the crowd. That sort of thing is a lot more fun when someone like Kyoko Inoue does it. Hase has never struck me as anything more than adequate on the mat and the kind of guy who'd rather do gymnastics on the mat than actually wrestle. I always find that disappointing since he went to the Olympics as an amateur, but it's part of his charm and charisma that I just don't get. The idea here was that the bigger Fuyuki was looking to bulldoze Hase, but aside from his size, there really wasn't much Fuyuki could do to hurt Hase. Hase, who's never been that convincing seller to begin with, pretty much had to oversell how much jeopardy he was in. Fuyuki had a nice german but not a lot of stuff that could truly put Hase away, and although the crowd got into the stretch run, Hase had way bigger stuff in his holster. Yeah, the point was to work a competitive midcard bout, but matches like this always kind of bother me when the stakes don't match the fight. And without trying to pick on the guy, could his angry shouts be any less guttural? I will endeavor to say something nice about him, though. He had a truly beautiful Northern Lights suplex. That throw was a thing of beautiful. Match plodded along, but the crowd propped it up.

Hiroshi Hase vs Ricky Fuyuki (6/17/93) The early part of this reminded me of things I don't like about Hase such as the way he'd dance while he had someone in a hold, or clap his hands and point to the crowd. That sort of thing is a lot more fun when someone like Kyoko Inoue does it. Hase has never struck me as anything more than adequate on the mat and the kind of guy who'd rather do gymnastics on the mat than actually wrestle. I always find that disappointing since he went to the Olympics as an amateur, but it's part of his charm and charisma that I just don't get. The idea here was that the bigger Fuyuki was looking to bulldoze Hase, but aside from his size, there really wasn't much Fuyuki could do to hurt Hase. Hase, who's never been that convincing seller to begin with, pretty much had to oversell how much jeopardy he was in. Fuyuki had a nice german but not a lot of stuff that could truly put Hase away, and although the crowd got into the stretch run, Hase had way bigger stuff in his holster. Yeah, the point was to work a competitive midcard bout, but matches like this always kind of bother me when the stakes don't match the fight. And without trying to pick on the guy, could his angry shouts be any less guttural? I will endeavor to say something nice about him, though. He had a truly beautiful Northern Lights suplex. That throw was a thing of beautiful. Match plodded along, but the crowd propped it up.

Pierre Combrouste vs. Ted Lamarre (1/22/60) Nice little one fall opener between two lighter weight wrestlers. I wouldn't say matches like this became rare as the years progressed, but they certainly became less earnest as exhibitions of wrestling skill gave way to a higher propensity towards flashy moves. It was cool watching two small guys work a competitive wrestling match between them at their weight class instead of trying to up show the bigger guys. Paul Villars vs. Michel Allary (1/22/60) Allary seems to be a personal favourite of Bob ALPRA. I wonder if it's because of his career being cut short while in full bloom. It's neat watching a bout like this and seeing how "universal" wrestling tropes were on the continent. You had the slightly stocky Villars (complete w/ moustache) working all sorts of inside moves against the good looking, clean cut Allary, including that most unsporting of European heel acts: attacking your man while he's down. Villars gave Allary's back a working over, and Allary responded with clubbing forearm blows. When the match was worked on even terms, Allary dominated with his skill, and Villars had no answer for him. He resorted to inside moves and the cycle continued. A simple formula, but fun to watch.

It was interesting watching the Yoshimura match that GOTNW posted as it seems all you ever read about Gotch is people debating how tough he really was or claiming he couldn't work the type of matches that draw. He looked pretty good on the mat though he was taking it kind of easy on Yoshimura. I would have liked to have seen the Japanese worker fight a bit harder to get a limb.

Espanto wasn't really a no-namer. He was a tailor-made rival for Santo when he first donned the "El Hijo del Santo" gimmick in the early 80s as the original Espantos had feuded with his father in the 60s, and became one of Santo's first and longest career rivals. Santo took Espanto's mask in '86 and they continued to have a long feud involving numerous hair vs. mask matches and title bouts, During the years that Santo worked for UWA, Espanto was second only to Casas in terms of Santo rivals and even then it was pretty close. When UWA started to fold, Espanto jumped to AAA. He wrestled as himself for a few years then AAA owner Antonio Pena tried repacking him as "El Santo Negro" (an evil version of Santo) and then Pentagon (an evil version of Octagon.) He had a terrible in-ring injury working as Pentagon and actually died in the ring before being revived. The source of this footage is from a DVD he was selling at live shows to support himself.

I think I love that Hashimoto/Fujiwara match more than is humanly possible. It's pretty much a masterpiece in terms of how I'd want to see those two workers square off. I would have been disappointed if it had been "bigger" in any way.

I don't see how Taue was good enough mechanically to be in anyone's top 10. A big part of his charm was is awkwardness, and how he overcame his limitations with time and even smoothed them out in some cases. It seems to me that there are too many workers out there with great mechanics and a high output. Taue/Hase/Windham is like arguing who places where in the 35-25 range.

There's nothing I really like about Hase. He wrestles so much like a Joshi worker that I'd rather just watch Joshi, but I'm gonna check out a few of his recommended matches until either develop a liking for him or tap out.

I hoped you watched the '78 one and not the All-Star one from '85.