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Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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Lucy Kayama & Nancy Kumi vs Wendi Richter & Leilani Kai, 9/80 Nancy Kumi & Jackie Sato vs. Mami Kumano & Leilani Kai, 9/80 Being a Joshi pro-wrestler in these days was pretty tough, but at least they got to tour Guam. Both these matches were from a local high school and featured an American guy as the ref. They were the same kind of brawls you see on every other episode of AJW TV, but the locals were into it, especially the older folks. The 2/3 falls format tends to be a momentum killer and you often only get one really solid fall, but there was plenty of good stuff throughout. The first match is kind of ruined by the heels fighting with the ref, which leads to Leilani accidentally punching him and then posting him for real. The ref does a bladejob and DQs the heels. A know a lot of people don't like heel ref schtick, so that's one to avoid. Leilani had a really cool punch exchange in the first match where she did this bug-eyed selling as the girls whacked her. Arn Anderson would have been proud of that spot. Even though these matches aren't that great, Leilani always brings plenty of intensity to her performance. Kumano is the same. Kumi and Kayama have superb execution on their highspots, but Kayama is perhaps the epitome of an awkward Joshi pro-wrestler between the ropes. Sato sometimes looks like she doesn't care in matches like these.
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I don't think anybody puts Hansen on the level of Johnny Ace or Scott Norton. Those are guys who found a niche in Japan. Hansen is compared to Ric Flair or Terry Funk.
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Hansen had enough runs in the territories to have had better matches. He wasn't some guy who found his niche in Japan. I'd find it odd if other American stars had only had great matches in Japan.
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The biggest problem I have with Hansen was that he wasn't as good in the US as he was in Puerto Rico and Japan. I can't think of a match he had stateside that came close to his career matches overseas. That's a pretty glaring mark on his GOAT candidacy in my book. He's also part of an early 80s Japanese era that I like less and less every time I see it, and he's not much of a mat worker. Not that you want Stan Hansen to work the mat, but he does from time to time and it's not great.
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Yuriko Tagakai vs. Leilani Kai, 1/81 Leilani ate this girl for breakfast and they still wouldn't give her a win. Jumbo Hori vs Leilani Kai, 6/82 This was hugely disappointing, especially for a title match. I remember Hori being better than this, but I suppose that was from '84-85. Leilani did some cool shit like a delayed butterfly suplex, but Hori was off on most of his stuff and Leilani's second kept interfering all match long. Bullshit countout win for Hori in a championship match was the last straw. I am not enjoying this promotion's booking.
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Emilio Charles Jr., Negro Casas & Bestia Salvaje vs. Atlantis, La Fiera & Apolo Dantes, 6/3/94 Fantastic looking match-up on paper that was just some bullshit excuse to turn Casas technico. CMLL became hopeless at turning people once the TV boom began. In the 80s when rudos turned on each other, it would lead to these incredibly heated matches where the rudos would ratchet up the violence and turn Arena Mexico into a madhouse. Rudos would have these ongoing feuds with each other that wouldn't be settled until there was a wager match and even then the bad blood would continue. Here, Casas whimpered and cowered while his rudo partners flogged him. Instead of fighting back and starting a blood feud, he looked meeker than at any point in his career. Casas had done the same thing to other rudos in the past and knew the rules that the rudo fraternity abide by, but the stupid thing about these matches is that it's not like you get the hot match and then the angle. There's no Good God Almighties in CMLL; they suck dry whatever dramatic potential there is in these turns with the shittiest of execution. The commercials you see on old lucha tapes for Mexican soap operas and B films look like brilliantly penned dramas compared to the amount of effort CMLL puts into its television angles. Not something you want to watch if you're one of those guys who believe all wrestling is story; but hey, you get a bit of Casas vs. Atlantis, which isn't a match-up you see a lot of. Hayabusa, Pantera & Ciclon Ramirez vs. Mogur, Cachorro Mendoza & Javier Cruz, 6/3/94 What was the point in turning Cachorro Mendoza heel? He ambles to ringside like a technico, patting kids on the head, looking to get a legend pop from the one or two guys who can remember when he was a big deal. In the ring he does a reasonable facsimile of a rudo, but it's not like his heart's in it. And then there's poor Mogur, the failed "next big thing." In case you didn't realise he's rudo, he's wearing a black leather jacket. And what about Ciclon Ramirez? Of all the bad ideas floating around CMLL at this time, his unmasking may have been the worst. So, okay, maybe I'm the biggest Ciclon Ramirez fan I know, but compare the masked guy with the best looking tope in lucha history with the goofy looking bugger who unmasked. And the faux pas of wearing the high top lucha tights without the mask. There was no way this unmasking was doing for him what it did for pretty boys like Faraon and MS-1. This was right before his hair match with Cruz and they both did these small bladejobs that were like trickles down the bridge of their nose. Nobody told Hayabusa what you're supposed to do in a trios where the wrestlers are brawling around ringside, so he just stayed in the ring and watched. Yip. Cachorro Mendoza, Mocho Cota & Jaque Mate vs. Hayabusa, Blue Demon Jr & Hijo del Solitario, 7/15/94 About as bad as it looks on paper. Didn't do the "Cota was never as bad as we thought in the 90s" bandwagon any favours. Emilio Charles Jr, El Satanico & Negro Casas vs. El Hijo del Santo, Corazon de Leon & Ultimo Dragon, 9/15/95 Someone forgot to tell Santo and Casas that this was a trios match and a mano a mano broke out. This was pretty badass, actually. Rayo de Jalisco, Atlantis & Pegasus Kid vs. Pierroth Jr, Emilio Charles Jr & Bestia Salvaje, 7/15/94 This wasn't the most spectacular trios you'll ever seen, but it was pretty comfortably the best of this week's batch. The action was carried by Atlantis and Emilio Charles, who had lost none of their chemistry in 1994. Even their brawling was good. Atlantis doesn't have much of a rep as a brawler, but I reckon he can throw a pretty good right hand and he delivers a pretty solid looking posting too. Pierroth vs. Rayo is almost like a dream match as far as I'm concerned and was every bit as dopey as I could have hoped for. Bestia was solid, but if anyone ever writes the Bestia Salvaje story they better acknowledge how quickly he fell from his '92 heights. Benoit was better than most foreigners. Only two falls here, but Atlantis vs. Emilio stuff is always worth seeing. Pierroth Jr. vs. El Boricua, mask vs. mask, 9/29/95 On one hand, this is the kind of big, cumbersome main event I love in lucha. I'm a sucker for Pierroth and he had his mask ripped here with a big dark crimson stain everywhere. And the crowd were heavily into the Mexico vs. Puerto Rico theme with people bringing full size Mexican flags to the area and fans running around on camera with huge Pierroth signs. On the other hand, it's pretty sad that this was the main event of the Anniversary show. It probably would have been better in Puerto Rico where they would have been able to bleed far more than at Arena Mexico, but when you look at the past apuestas on Anniversary shows this kind of sums up where the promotion was at. I'm not a huge of the Santo vs. Casas feud, but it sure did turn things around, and I have a new appreciation for it in that sense. At least Pierroth got to be the man here and score the winning goal for Mexico. That was cool to watch as a Pierroth mark.
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I'd have to go through my blog to find the specific trios matches where I thought Satanico had great mat exchanges, but just recently I saw him have an exchange with Ultimo Dragon that gave me a flash of what a Satanico/Ultimo Dragon match might have been like.
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I'd like to hear your thoughts on the flaws of Satanico There are older fans who think he was never that good a technical wrestler and was favoured in terms of his push, but I'll speak on what I've seen. Satanico was a great mat worker and brawler, but he had obvious limitations in that he was never a huge bumper and wasn't a flier. If you were to do a straight up comparison between Satanico and Pirata Morgan, for example, Morgan would come out on top in most categories because he was a tremendous bumper, had flashier highspots and a better tope. Another flaw in Satanico's work is that he wasn't very forgiving of the Octagons of the world and wasn't always obliging in terms of carrying them. There's a match against Hector Garza from '95 that is atrocious by Satanico standards where he doesn't seem to give a fuck and won't put Garza over. His AAA run was really poor at a time where physically it needn't have been poor and he showed no willingness to adapt to their style or even produce work of the same standard as in CMLL. For that reason, his output drops off a cliff after the Infernales leave CMLL in '93 and he never really recovers his former position even if some of his post-prime stuff is fun. I also think you could argue that he didn't give his opponents enough of the match at times compared to other rudos who worked harder to put the technicos over, like Emilio and Morgan. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
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Pointing out the flaws in a guy like Kanemoto, to me, is old hat. I'd much rather hear about the flaws in a guy like Stan Hansen.
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Rimi Yokota & Tomoko Kitamura vs. Wendi Richter & Leilani Kai, 2/81 This is probably the best way to watch early Leilani, in tag matches where she gets more of an opportunity to shine. She was working some kind of whiny, high pitched heel gimmick at this stage. I'm not sure if she intended it to be comedic, but the audience found it funny. Yokota was impressive here. I'm not sure that she was in another universe when it came to work as some of the other girls were pretty good workers too, but the way she carried herself made her seem light years ahead of her peers. Asuka was okay, but mostly it was amusing watching her with a Jackie Sato-like mop top.
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From memory, Ikeshita retired in June of '81 and Kumano retired in October. I don't think the heels had retirement ceremonies in those days, at least not ones that aired on television. I know they mentioned on commentary that she was getting married (the commentary on these matches is a relentless stream of facts about the wrestlers), but I've never read anything about her getting buried. The dates on early 80s footage are a mess. The guy who uploads that stuff, through no fault of his own, has summer footage listed as "early 80" and stuff like that.
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I don't agree with this. If it wasn't for Baba and Inoki pro-wrestling would have died with Rikidozan. They were as important as Rikidozan if not more and just as popular.
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Joint Promotions is like the territories in that it's still good up until the mid-80s and then there's a huge drop off. I would say Grey carries the ship for the type of wrestling you enjoy. Guys like Saint, Breaks and Rocco jump ship to All-Star and are off TV for a few years and Joint replaces them with their boy apprentices who are Young David-esque and you're basically left with Steve Grey vs. Clive Myers being the premier workrate feud.
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I would make the case for Breaks in the top 5, since he spent the entire year on television being saddled with Alan Dennison and being saddled by Alan Dennison is like being saddled with a rock, but he still made it work.
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Lucy Kayama, Nancy Kumi & Jackie Sato vs. Mami Kumano, Yumi Ikeshita & Leilani Kai, 7/80 All Japan Women felt like a stale promotion in 1980. They'd been doing variations of this Black Trio vs. Beauty Trio stuff since the mid 70s, the schoolgirls had moved on after Ueda's retirement, and it was just the same match-ups with no story progression. The only reason to watch matches like these are for the Black Pair. Yumi Ikeshita is the best worker from this era that nobody talks about and Kumano is a superb bitchy heel. She wore this awesome black cape and gloves combo to the ring, so props for her costume sense too. And she went on to have something like six kids, so she was a heck of a lady. The only problem with Ikeshita is that she's so small that Sato could have just kicked the shit out of her and she would have never come back. Whenever Ikeshita bumps for her, it's like Sato is Hogan. This was a bit more workrate driven than the usual AJW brawls, but nothing about it really stood out. Leilani was third string as usual. Jumping Bomb Angels vs. Leilani Kai & Judy Martin (11/24/87) Really hot semi-sprint at MSG. Once again, Judy Martin did the bulk of the work for her team, but y'know, Judy Martin was a pretty good worker. The JBA looked better here than in the Rumble match and I think the one fall stip suited them better. Martin busting out a powerbomb was not something I expect from 1987 WWF.
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Titans of Wrestling #18
ohtani's jacket replied to JerryvonKramer's topic in Publications and Podcasts
The debate wasn't as heated as advertised. Poor old Parv sounds more fired up on paper than Skype. Why do you care so much, Parv? Is it because you wanted it to be some kind of amazing title vs. title match or because you just don't like Backlund? Everybody agrees that it's not that good a match, but it's hard to see why you're so offended by it. -
Nakamura/Okada vs. Tanahashi/Naito, 12/23/12 -- This was okay, but at 30 minutes plus it felt like too much of a good thing, or in New Japan's case too much of a decent thing. -- I don't think anyone really stood out as the best worker in the match. Nakamura obviously has the best strikes of the four. His front kicks in particular are really good, some of the best in wrestling. But aside from that he's like a Japanese DDP and really needs to expand his moveset. Tanahashi and Okada were Tanahashi and Okada, and Naito is kind of a guilty pleasure of mine. If anything, I thought he brought the most energy to the match. -- It reminded me a lot of post interpromotional era Joshi, where all they could think to do was up the ante each time. Whatever problems there are in a match like this, they started a long time ago. This is why I prefer shoot style (real shoot style, not that UWF-i bullshit) that's stripped of all the excess. -- There was a submission that Naito put on Okada that should have been the finish of the match. Unfortunately, Nakamura tried to break up the submission and Tanahashi did his frog splash on him and the life was sucked out of the submission. Then they went on to do a four way knockout where everyone was counted out, which was supposed to be some kind of epic image leading into the Dome match, but was like some shitty ending to RAW. I really wanted that submission finish. -- Probably *** 1/2 or so.
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Some Thoughts on the WWE Network
ohtani's jacket replied to evilclown's topic in Publications and Podcasts
What kind of a casual fan cries when Lex Luger loses a bout? Are you implying that casual fans think it's real? -
I want to make a correction to this. Los Guerreros did work El Toreo in '83 but it was against Perro Aguayo, Fishman and Babe Face. In the Misioneros matches, El Faraon subbed for Cota.
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Perro Aguayo vs. Sangre Chicana vs. El Faraon vs. Villano III (Elimination Match) (10/84) This was the main event of the 10/14/84 show. Chicana, Faraon and Villano III all had issues with Perro Aguayo. We've covered them before, but let's recap: After Faraon was unmasked by Fishman in April of '76, the first big feud he was involved with was a program with Perro Aguayo. They feuded over the NWA World Middleweight title and later the NWA World Light Heavyweight title, but their feud was so heated that it led to a hair vs. hair match on the 43rd Anniversary Show and a double hair vs. hair match between Faraon & Ringo Mendoza vs. Perro Aguayo & Joe Palardy on the year end show for '77 after Faraon had beaten Palardy for the World Middleweight title a few weeks earlier. The great thing about lucha at this time is that they didn't stop feuding when Faraon became a rudo. In 1982 there was an atomicos match at Arena Mexico that paired El Solitario, Mascara 2000, Ringo y Cachorro Mendoza and Perro Aguayo, Fishman, Sangre Chicana y Faraon against each other. In the third fall, Fishman accidentally hit Faraon with one of his kicks, which ignited a brawl between the two. Aguayo immediately entered to attack Faraon and when Chicana intervened in support of the Pharaoh, Arena Mexico apparently became a madhouse with just this incredible reaction at seeing the rudos fight. The following week there was a wild Chicana/Faraon vs. Aguayo/Fishman fight that was said to be one of the most memorable rudos contra rudos fights ever seen with no quarter asked and none given. That led to an even wilder super libre match where Aguayo bled so much he couldn't finish the third fall and had to leave because of blood loss. The violence didn't stop there, however, as they took the feud to El Toreo in February of '83 for a pair of revenge matches where the blood continued to flow. Fishman bled so much in their second fight that the doctor wanted to stop the fight, but Fishman ultimately forced Chicana to submit in a match people still talk about as one of the bloodiest in Mexican wrestling history. And of course, Villano and Aguayo had their own war the same year with their hair vs. mask bout. And what more can be said about Sangre Chicana, voted 1983's most outstanding wrestler by Box y Lucha Magazine, which was a tremendous honour for the 50th anniversary of lucha libre, his three feuds with MS-1, Satanico and Aguayo sealing the deal.
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
Re-watching a few wrestlers I haven't given a fair shake to in the past. Brian Maxine vs. Robby Baron (2/21/77) Here's what I said about Maxine the first time I saw him in back in 2009: "Maxine was a heel who wore a crown and had "I am Super Star Maxine" handwritten on his tights. Maybe he went through Memphis at some point. A pity that he sucked. Robbie Baron was one of your most game no-namers around. I don't think I'll be watching Maxine for a while." I've learnt a lot since then and come to appreciate Maxine as one of the most colourful characters of his era. This had some excellent wrestling in the first fall, but was criminally short. It was around this time that Maxine began making a face turn, which was a slow burn deal where he gradually began behaving himself. The upshot of that was that we got to see more of Maxine the wrestler, which was interesting to see. He wasn't the most skilled worker in the business, but pretty much rock solid. Brian Maxine vs. Mick McMichael (1/28/80) Maxine by this stage was a fully fledged blue-eye, but because he wasn't on television so frequently Walton kept expressing surprise at the "new" Maxine. This was a much stronger bout that I remembered, in fact it's probably the second best McMichael bout I've seen after the McManus one. Two thirds of the way through, this looked like a nomination for the Europe set, but there was some oddly timed comedy from McMichael at the business end and then an injury finish that left McMichael with a dislocated shoulder. It was more believable than a lot of injury finishes, but they're always downers. There was unlikely to be a winner in this one and the injury finish allowed Maxine to continue his babyface push by refusing to accept the decision, but there's no sweetening the disappointment. -
[1993-08-06-NJPW-G1 Climax] Masa Chono vs Hiroshi Hase
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in August 1993
I'm fairly certain they took turns making noises while on top. Hmm, that sounded dodgy.- 17 replies
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[1993-08-06-NJPW-G1 Climax] Masa Chono vs Hiroshi Hase
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in August 1993
I'm not really a fan of either of these guys, though I do like the Hase/Hashimoto matches. I thought this was fairly good when they worked submission holds and not so great at other times. A lot of the early transitions were poor, and I couldn't stand the dueling figure four leg lock spots on the outside. I also couldn't stand their breathing sounds. A lot of people can't stand the screaming in Joshi, but I'd rather listen to that than the noises Hase and Chono make. That was easily solved though as I just put on a record. While I may not have liked some of the details, I thought they did an excellent job of turning their semi into an epic. Hase's victory at the end was really convincing in terms of the emotion. So, overall I'm not sure I'd call it a classic but it was a strong match.- 17 replies
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Javier Cruz, Impacto II y Solar II vs. El Dandy, Franco Colombo y Panico (10/84) This was part of the Javier Cruz/El Dandy feud, which was an important feud in the young careers of both men. There's a good chance it took place on the undercard of the 10/14/84 show, but I can't find any evidence of it. We'll get to El Dandy vs. Javier Cruz in due course. For now here's a quick look at their partners: Panico and Franco Colombo are most notable for being present day CMLL bookers. Panico came from a lucha family, his father Manuel Robles being one of four brothers who wrestled (two as "Robles" and two as "Sitos.") Despite the fact that his father was a popular wrestler, Panico refused to take advantage of his family's reputation and tried to make his own way in the wrestling business as a luchador enmascarado. Probably the most interesting story about Panico is the story of how he unmasked. On August 17th, 1982, Panico lost his mask tagging with his father against Franco Colombo and Faisan, who later became Rocco Valente of Los Destructores. Where it gets interesting is that while everybody agrees that Panico lost his mask, nobody can seem to agree with how it happened. As the story goes, the match ended in a draw and that's where things start to get hazy. Because lucha was governed by an actual regulatory body, there had to be a winner in wager matches. Draws were unheard of for the first 50 or so years of lucha libre. From all accounts, the first instance of a draw in a luchas de apuestas match was the MS-1/Gran Jalisco draw on 7/23/82. On that occasion, both competitors were forced to lose their hair, but with the Panico match accounts of how the draw was dealt with is murky at best. Some claim that one of the refs declared the technicos the winners while the other raised the rudos' hands, while others say only the rudos were declared the winners and therefore the technicos were forced to lose the wager. One person even claims there was an official fourth fall but that the crowd were on the verge of rioting and nobody noticed the fourth fall amid all the confusion. Whatever the case, it seems Faisan unmasked and Colombo lost his hair, and after a week of controversy the commission forced Panico and Robles to do the same. Colombo was a Diablo Velazco protege and part of the same group of trainees as Satanico, Espectro Jr., Asesino Negro, Sangre India (who sadly died doing a tope at Arena Coliseo on Christmas Day 1979), Cesar Curiel, and others. He had a brief run with the Mexican National Welterweight title from late '80 through to early '81, but like an NBA bench player who goes on to be a head coach he spent most of his national career as a JTTS. In fact, he gave up his hair to Cruz twice after this in 1985 and '86. Impacto II is an enigma in that nothing is known about him. I think it's better that way. Solar II is the brother of Solar I, who in Solar I's own words he brought with him to Mexico City because he wanted him to become an accountant or get a good job, but while he thought his brother was studying he was in fact training to be a wrestler. So, Solar formed a tag team with his brother. Solar II had a much more modest career than his famous brother, but he had a few moments in the sun, including taking Enfermero Jr.'s mask and winning the NWA World Welterweight Championship. I don't think it's difficult to make out who's who, but Panico is the guy in the black amateur singlet and Colombo is the guy in the green trunks.
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
ohtani's jacket replied to ohtani's jacket's topic in Megathread archive
I don't know if they're the five best, but these are the ones that shaped my fandom: Clive Myers vs. Steve Grey (10/8/75) Steve Veidor vs. Gwyn Davies (5/26/76) Mark Rocco vs. Marty Jones (6/30/76) Terry Rudge vs. Marty Jones (11/30/76) Jim Breaks vs. Young David (Davey Boy Smith) (12/3/79) There's a list on the front page of my recommended matches.