ohtani's jacket

Is it just me or does Sandy Barr kind of suck? In the span of two matches I saw him get punched by Lonnie Mayne and pop back up like nothing had happened and glance at then ignore Wiskowski attacking Piper in a lumberjack match.

Every time people Joshi on a podcast it sounds like they're saying the Japanese word for boss.

I'm sure this has been done before, but if the territories still existed which workers from the current WWE roster (and TNA for that matter, I suppose) would work in which territories? Who'd be the aces in 2013? The touring champ? The heels run out of town in loser leaves town matches?

Don't hate him, but wouldn't seek out his matches. His ring stance and body movement were awkward for mine, but he had some exciting matches where his popularity added to the atmosphere. Had the chance to meet him, but didn't want to spend a month's wages on boozing.

Man, I watch a lot of films that I enjoy for the direction and cinematography more than the story. Maybe they wouldn't rank high on a list of my favourite movies, but if we were separating "best" from "favourite" they would, even if they didn't particularly move me. I used to care a lot about wrestling when I was in high school. I was gutted when Montreal happened and feared for the future of the WWF. I was staunchly pro-WWF when I first came online; turned my back on Bret, who had been my hero to that point; got emotional when Foley won the title, even though he wasn't a guy I'd grown up on; and had a whole bunch of other reactions based on a rather parochial fandom. I cared a lot about Japanese wrestling and workrate when I was younger too. But as people change, and their tastes mature and develop, I agree that watching wrestling becomes more often than not a cerebral exercise. I often get excited about a match such as Breaks/Ryan or the Virus/Maya match I saw recently, and I certainly cared about those matches but more in the sense that they were matches that got me pumped. These days I tend to care more about whether a match was boring or interesting than emotional and tend to draw a pretty firm line between the two. I don't think wrestling compares to the aching disappointment of sports and I don't think I'll ever really care about a worker the way I cared about a guy like Bret Hart. In the past few weeks I've watched stuff like Rose/Adonis, Rose/Martel and Bockwinkel/Hennig, all of which I thought were pretty good, but watching them I didn't feel anything. My enjoyment as purely cerebral. A waste of time? Maybe, but I wanted to check them off my wrestling "bucket" list so to speak. Maybe if I watched something live on a week-to-week basis I'd have a different reaction.

Jon Casanova vs. Tug Wilson (aired 4/22/72) This is an obscure one. It was the television debut for both these men. Casanova was literally working a Casanova gimmick inspired by the 1971 BBC series, which was written by Dennis Potter of Singing Detective fame. Apparently, the gimmick really took off, especially when he started handing out roses to the women in the audience. Wilson was a barefoot wrestler from Belfast with a bunch of nifty moves, who like Casanova soon became a fixture on bills up and down the country. Then, as soon as they'd arrived, they were gone. Casanova disappeared in late '73 and Wilson a few years later. There's one other Wilson match on tape, but this is the only Casanova match among tape traders. Not a huge tragedy, but both guys worked some of the biggest names and better workers of the era and it seems like we're missing a chunk of what was happening in the very early 70s as we have only a small amount of footage. The match was fairly average, a bit shapeless really, but an interesting time capsule if nothing else. Dynamite Kid vs. Tally Ho Kaye (11/3/76) Vick Faulkner vs. Black Jack Mulligan (11/3/76) Kid/Faulkner/Royal vs. Hogan/Kaye/Mulligan (11/3/76) These were all from the same television taping as the Royal/Hogan match I watched the other day. It was a type of catchweight television tournament. The promoters liked to run these television tournaments that were sort of like Davis Cup ties where you'd have singles matches and sometimes a tag, but strangely they rarely played them for dramatic effect. Often the faces would sweep the heels with nothing in the way of a decider. I've got to give Kaye his due here. He was the star of this episode, firstly carrying a 16 year-old Dynamite Kid to an excellent catchweight tournament bout, then to secondly job to him, and then for his tremendous apron work during the six man tag. I called him a third rate rudo the other day, but this was almost as good as Breaks or Sid Cooper. Dynamite Kid made for an excellent face in peril in both matches. Of all the teenagers I've seen on WoS, he showed the most potential at the youngest age. If any Dynamite Kid fans remain, I'd highly recommend checking out how well he does here. The British Black Jack Mulligan was a generic brawler who cheated a lot, but he wasn't too bad. He had an Alan Moore-like beard that made for some great heat spots where the babyfaces threw him by his whiskers. The six man was better than most WoS tags because they did a legitimate FIP section on Dynamite, but I had to laugh when they announced it was first to three falls instead of best two out of three. They didn't have a clue what to do with tags. All in all, a pretty lightweight taping, but Kaye's star shone bright.

I agree with all this and think it's perfectly natural, but there's something arbitrary about caring about a match. I've tried to watch Buddy Rose because everything that people say about him makes him seem like a guy I would love, but he doesn't excite me the way say Mocho Cota does, and the weird thing about that was when I watched Mocho Cota's stuff five years ago he didn't leave that huge an impression on me. I guess we all read people's comments and can't understand why they don't care about a wrestler as much as us; the original context for this thread was Kevin not being able to get behind Joshi wrestlers, who I think are probably the easiest Japanese wrestlers to get behind because they wear their hearts on their sleeves and you see them grow as workers over their careers, but at the same time I'm tired of pretty much all of them. To me that sums up how fine a line there is between caring and not caring and I'm not sure it's always about the wrestlers and their ability to make you care. A lot of the time it seems to involve extraneous factors. I'd be interested in hearing from anybody who consistently cares about the same sort of stuff.

That makes sense, cheers. More dregs: Ivan Penzekoff vs. Mel Stuart (aired 5/8/76) Penzekoff wore a Soviet Union jacket to the ring complete with hammer and sickle yet he wasn't really a heel. I have no idea what his gimmick was meant to be. He looked like more of a long haired Cossack than a Russian nightmare. I guess it's possible that the communist overtones were played up more in the halls and they didn't want to do anything too controversial on television. Later on, he formed a tag team with Johnny Czeslaw called The Iron Curtain Duo, but they seemed to miss a trick with how they could've pushed this. Anyway, he got to show more of his offence here since Stuart was a jobber, but Walton's stories about him breeding Siamese cats and the time he developed a cauliflower ear between rounds 3 and 4 were more interesting than the match itself. Johnny Kwango vs. Billy Torontos (6/5/78) This had a couple of funny moments like when Torontos tried to headbutt Kwango and almost knocked himself out and then attempted an airplane spin where he was the one who ended up dizzy, but apart from that it was uninspiring no matter how much Walton laughed. Kwango was towards the end of his career here and pretty average. McManus provided "expert analysis" between rounds and was painfully dry. This truly was the dregs. Mick McMichael vs. Tally Ho Kaye (6/30/76) Tally Ho Kaye was a third rate rudo and McMichael has never been a guy who excites me much so this meandered along with the kind of heel cheating and face retaliation that's been done better a thousand times. Zoltan Boscik vs. Steve Kelly (11/7/77) This was surprisingly good. It was one of those matches where an experienced rudo carries a young teenager to something competitive. British wrestling did these matches well. Boscik isn't a favourite of mine, but he was solid here. The 16 year-old Kelly only had a few moves, but Boscik bumped for them well. This achieved its aim. Lee Bronson vs. John Henry Yearsley (4/19/77) This also perfectly good. Bronson was a young heavyweight who was one of the future hopes for British wrestling but didn't get the push he should have. Instead of being the natural successor to Bridges and St. Clair he faded away. Yearsley was a Welsh vet who was good fodder for a rising young star like Bronson and he delivered a nice, professional jobber-to-the-rising star performance. Sheik Adnan Alkaissy vs. Lenny Hurst (10/30/79) Hey, it's General Adnan. He got pretty good heat for this performance. There was a woman at ringside who screamed at him like a mongrel. They did a whole big angle about how the British promoters hadn't determined whether the sleeper hold was legal under Admiral-Lord Mountevans rules, so when poor old perpetual jobber Lenny Hurst was put to sleep the bout was called off and the St. John's ambulance people had to come to the ring. Max Ward ordered the Sheik to revive Hurst and he did that old school schtick where you wake people up from sleeper holds. Noteworthy if nothing else.

This comment from Kevin Ridge got me thinking... ...and I was wondering if people could have a go at answering some questions. How do you get behind a performer emotionally? I mean what draws that sort of reaction from you. Does it happen often or is it rare? Can you enjoy matches where you don't feel a huge emotional connection as much as matches where you do? Are there any matches you think are great where you don't feel a huge investment? I mean matches that would sit side by side with you all-time favourites even though you only enjoy them from a technical standpoint. Are there other ways you can get behind a performer that are different from the norm? For example, if promos and angles are important to you, how to you get behind foreign performers, etc.? Can this connection develop over time is it love at first sight? I often read comments similar to Kevin's and I was interested in fleshing it out a bit.

It's back to the dregs until I get more comps. Ivan Penzekoff vs. Johnny Kwango (12/4/74) Ivan Penzekoff vs. Kevin Conneely (2/21/74) Ivan Penzekoff was an interesting guy. He was originally so lithe that they billed him as the "The India Rubber Man." Later they pushed his Anglo-Latvian roots with overtones that he was a Red despite the fact he was billed from Bolton and had a Lancashire accent. He was a real hardman, an ex-miner, ex-boxer and a guy who liked snakes and breeding guard dogs. Kung Fu tells a story about this venue in Bristol they used to work where the management would put on a free bar for all the wrestlers. Penzekoff would be in the opening match and after his shoulder he'd head to the bar where he'd proceed to drink the place dry. Management complained to Dale Martin, so they decided to put Penzekoff on last. Ivan's solution? Head to the bar as soon as he arrived and drink until match time. All of this is more interesting than the matches. I'm not sure why, but for some reason they chose Penzekoff to be the foil for a lot of comedy wrestlers during this era despite the fact he didn't really add anything and wasn't allowed to contribute much. The Kwango match was nothing special if you've ever seen a Kwango match. In fact, I was kind of annoyed that there was so little wrestling and so much emphasis on making Penzekoff look like a fool. Conneely was a Liverpudlian Irishman who never stopped talking. He cracked a joke with literally every hold kind of like the Irish Les Kellett. Some of it was funny and other bits were mildly amusing, but it wasn't really in the class of Les Kellet at least not on this outing. Bobby Barnes/Magnificent Maurice vs. Johnny & Peter Wilson (aired 1/1/77) Magnificent Maurice was Colonel Brody doing an exotico gimmick. Walton got in a great line about Barnes having found himself another blond now that he was no longer tagging with Street. This was better than your average WoS tag, which isn't saying much. The exoticos were amusing. Bert Royal vs. Kenny Hogan (11/3/76) Short catchweight tournament contest that was basically an offensive showcase for Bert Royal. Royal was another of Walton's favourites, but he's a guy I've never really warmed to. I'll probably start to re-evaluate him soon as I'm running out of footage to watch. Mike Marino vs. Amet Chong (12/11/74) Amet Chong was billed as a Peruvian Indochinese wrestler, which for all I know was probably true. He worked the "non-English speaking wrestler can't understand the rules schtick" before Marino KO'ed him with a chop. Walton was trying to sell it as Chong not understanding the ten count in English, but shit was terrible. One of the worst WoS matches I've seen. Pete Roberts vs. Amet Chong (11/20/74) This was Chong's first match on television. He was in for a month and fed to Veidor or someone. Roberts tried harder than Marino to make something of this, but it was the same bullshit from Chong. The crowd sure gave it to him with plenty of racial epithets. Not your best side on show, Britain.

It seems to me that you're watching too much stuff. There's really not enough good wrestling these days to have that many nominations so if you limited it to the very best stuff you may find matches that of merit. Hardcore fans tend to nominate matches on a weekly basis these days so you get these big lists of anything that's considered worth watching, but as someone who only has a passing interest in current wrestling I tend to cherry pick the best stuff and enjoy that. And most of that stuff is from long time pros who came through a different system and learnt to work a different way, so perhaps you'd enjoy that more.

Blue Panther vs. Averno, hair vs. hair, CMLL 9/13/13 This was a mixed bag. I loved the opening fall. I thought it was a tremendous battle of strength with the counter from the headlock to the cobra clutch being the kind of tough, gutsy wrestling I love. Averno's efforts to flip Panther off him and Panther continuing to hold onto the clutch were beautiful, and when Averno finally did counter the clutch into an arm lock and began guillotining Panther in the face, the only thing that could have been cooler than Panther's transition into the winning submission would have been if he'd gone for a palm strike, which of course Panther wouldn't do. I didn't mind the immediate reply in the second fall and thought Panther sold it well. Panther's selling has improved since he first lost the mask and has become a strength of his it seems. The third fall started with a pointless dive and then settled into some decent submission work, but it went on for too long and really started to drag. There's only so many submission attempts and so many dives you can do before they become redundant. I would have loved the match to continue in the vein of the first fall, which obviously wasn't going to happen on a big show at Arena Mexico, but the alternative of Averno not knowing the stip (or pretending not to know) kind of sucked. It was a silly distraction considering how great their submission battle had been in the first two falls, but the thing with Averno is that even though he was perfectly solid in this match he's not a guy who's able to do a whole lot of interesting holds. So there were more dives and some bullshit with Averno's second, who threw in the towel and caused Panther and the ref to be distracted which let Averno win with a choke hold. The best thing to come out of all this was Panther selling the choke while his head was being shaved. I'd say it was the best of the big Panther matches outside of the Casas hair match, but still not great. Guerrero Maya Jr. vs. Virus, CMLL 10/6/13 Now this was a great match. I've thought for a while now that Virus is the best worker in the company and this pretty much confirms it. The surprising thing for me personally was that it wasn't the opening two mat falls that pushed this over the top for me, but the final juniors-esque third fall that I fell for. The opening stretch-work was stellar and very UWA in the way they worked in and out of wristlocks and hammerlocks and abdominal stretches. It wasn't all Virus either. Guerrero Maya for his part wrestled extremely well. But one of the things that sets Virus apart from his contemporaries is his ability to construct awesome finishes and in a neat bit of detail Virus was able to turn a Russian leg sweep into an octopus like submission that put pressure on the shoulder Maya had already strained from the hammerlock. Nice. The second fall continued with more arm work until Maya realised he'd be better off creating more space during their standing portions, which was smart given their size and reach difference. He caught Virus with a nicely executed shoulder breaker move and won the fall with a cool looking submission of his own. That set the stage for a scintillating final caida where both guys went hell for leather. They were able to maintain a cracking pace while still selling, still putting some thought into their transitions and bridging their spots with good looking strikes. The Maya tope, which had to be a little lower to strike Virus properly, was stunning, and the new CMLL cameras are really cool. It was one of those caidas where every time they ran a sequence, like the Maya scoop slam or the baseball slide into the top rope plancha, they made good choices. When that happens, it's pretty magic. The new camera that seems to give high definition handheld shot that made Maya look like Spider-Man descending from a building. The nearfalls and slow ref counts added to the drama and the struggle over the simplest of things like a schoolboy was beautiful to watch. The escalating big moves were what made the fall so juniors-esque, but it was wonderfully done. Virus' arm drag off the ring post was superb and his final submission and pose sealed this as a classic. I would have no problem calling this the match of the year. Máximo, Stuka Jr. & Super Porky vs. Dragón Rojo Jr., Pólvora & Rey Escorpión, CMLL 10/4/13 Escorpión really is a c-nt to beat on poor Porky like that. This was extremely well done for what it was. I haven't seen much Escorpión, but he seemed to have a Michael Hayes vibe to him. That was my take anyway. Porky gave Escorpión some receipts for that beating and a hair match is in the works. That could unseed Maya/Virus as MOTY.

Me too. When the camera zooms in on Orton? That's my only guess Yeah, there's a cut there.

That Parente match is a lot of fun. The commentator sounds like he's DJ'ing at a club, which I guess was what he was doing essentially. You could tell it was the 50s with all the talk of Cape Canaveral, astronauts and test patterns from Mars, not to mention the commercialism of reading out an advert for Bavarian beer. The post-match was fun too with O'Connor's Americanised Kiwi accent. Pat O'Connor vs Killer Kowalski (Montreal 7/22/54) Hard to tell for sure because it was only reel footage, but this looked like a great match. One of the things I've enjoyed about O'Connor so far is that aside from being a great technical worker he's also a fairly decent brawler. Plus he looks like he could've stepped straight off the farm and played rugby for New Zealand alongside Collin Meads, Don Clarke and all the other great players of the 50s. Kowalski looks good here too and does an excellent job working from the top. The ref bump in the third fall is one of the nastiest looking ref bumps I've seen. The dude gets steamrolled.

Little Prince vs. John Wilkie (3/23/83) Wilkie, you're no match for the Little Prince. This was the Prince's return from what looked like knee surgery and was pretty much the WoS equivalent of a squash. Wilkie hailed from Hanley in the Potteries near Stoke-on-Trent. I think we've located parts unknown. Walton at one point called Prince a "very strong boy indeed." Now I realise everyone was a boy to Walton, but no man with that much hair on his body and that big a mustache can possibly be called a boy. As you can possibly tell there wasn't much to this, but at least we got to see Prince do his victory strut and stroke the ends of his mustache.

I'm saving that for the main course. Pat O'Connor vs. Ric Flair (St. Louis) Ted Dibiase was on commentary for this studio match and you don't get any prizes for guessing what happens. I don't know if this is available in full, but the clip I watched showed about two or three minutes of a ten minute studio match that looked to be the usual awesome Flair studio match. O'Connor was even more of a veteran here than in the Murdoch match and they were basically putting over his toughness at this point as not being a guy who quits, but he got a few licks in before the angle and again looked like a lucha or British maestro.

El Hijo del Santo vs. Negro Casas (Mask vs. Hair) (7/18/87) I think this was the only match to make Jeff Bowdren's Top Matches of the 80s list, and since improving Bowdren's list was the original impetus for the 80s sets, I thought it would be interesting to see how it holds up. The verdict? It holds up well. It's not a violent match like Santo vs. Espanto the year before, but the work is excellent and if anything I like it more than when I first saw it a decade ago or more. Back then I was framing it against cruiserweight matches and junior heavyweights, now I can appreciate it as a lucha match. The degree to which they struggle over holds is surprising, although not that surprising as the Espanto match shows that it was a Santo staple at the time, but still there were a lot of details that I didn't pick up on as a lucha neophyte. Probably the most interesting thing for me ten years later is watching 80s Casas. We don't have a lot of 80s Casas as he mostly worked for UWA and the indies, and of the Arena Mexico appearances he made only one of them has been preserved if memory serves me. I don't think he'd been to Japan at this stage as he hadn't adopted the Choshu look yet, and it was evident throughout that he was Casas without really being Casas. That's true of just about all the 90s stars on the set, but Casas would have such a dominant personality by '92 that it was fascinating to watch it in the formative stages. Also of interest was how much Santo had grown into the role of Son of Santo. When you compare this to his Arena Mexico debut where he's so nervous and has that overly long opening exchange with Lobo Rubio, it's amazing how much he'd grown in confidence. His dives here were exquisite. I often bitch and moan about formulaic Santo, but when he hits dives like that the whole world stops for a second. Man are those a thing of beauty. Pirata Morgan, Hombre Bala y Verdugo vs. Atlantis, Angel Azteca y Ringo Mendoza (3/88) There's been a lot of brawling trios on this set, which isn't surprising given the viewing committee's tastes, and there's been some straight filler that I'm not sure would've made the set if more footage was available. There's also been a lot of matches that were only ever meant to set up hair matches which we don't have. That's a bit like putting all those great Satanico/Dandy trios matches on the 1990 yearbook and not having the hair match. The reason that I'm saying all this is to emphasise that *this* is a trios match that I thought was a really high quality trios match. Naturally, not all of the viewing committee were sold on it, which probably makes me an outlier on all things lucha, but let me state my case. A really good trios match should have a little bit of everything: brawling, either matwork or quick fire exchanges, bumping, stooging & selling, a bit of comedy and dives. Of course there are plenty of good trios matches which are predominantly one thing over the other, but I always appreciate a trios that shows the depth and variety of lucha libre wrestling. Add overlapping falls, the right rhythm and pacing and clever finishes and you've generally got a great trios. Everything clicked here for me. I liked the early rudo beatdown on the technicos as well as the technico comeback, which was the right mix of Ringo being a credible enough asskicker to deal to the stockier rudos and Atlantis and Azteca having the skill to both confuse and embarrass the rudos. I really loved Ringo in this match. All of his punches and brawling were great, as were his spinning kicks, no matter how tired they got in the 90s. He was probably a loving family man, but he was one guy I don't think you'd be wise to mess with. You could probably argue that the Azteca fake out spot didn't work so well, though the editing didn't help. To me the only real weak point in the match was the Azteca pinning exchange after Atlantis had done his always brilliant three on one spinning back breakers sequence. No matter how many times Atlantis does that sequence I always mark out like it's the first time I've seen it. Azteca needed to follow it up with something as spectacular or better, similar to the moonsault move that Atlantis does to end the fall, but that's splitting hairs on a great trios. Azteca was still a little green here, but his arm drags were as sensational as ever. Atlantis was out of this world good and really '88-91 marks his absolute peak in my opinion. It's pretty rare that you get a trios match where all three technicos are good and add to that a solid rudos act and you've got something really good. The match reaches its zenith with an incredible tope from Atlantis, which tomk described as vertical and will live long in the memory of people who watch this set, before the footage cuts out right before an almighty uppercut to the groin area. How the match ended we'll never know. Maybe it's still going on somewhere out there in space. El Hijo Del Santo vs. Espanto Jr. (4/10/88) I didn't love this as much as I love their masks match and the '92 title match, but I'm glad we have another match in what is probably Santo's Garvin feud to his Casas Steamboat rivalry. As we've seen with a lot of this 80s stuff, there's a fantastic atmosphere with the ring being flooded with kids before the bout and later on they're sort of loitering about climbing back in it when Santo and Espanto are selling on the outside and running around during the stretch run. There's one kid who jumps a feet in the air every time Espanto kicks out of a nearfall and actually a section of the crowd seemed to be right behind him despite being largely pro-Santo. These two had wrestled so many times from '85-88 with Espanto losing so many times, including every year in their annual hair match, that I suppose to some people he was the underdog in this feud. He entered the match as champion having finally wrestled the UWA's World Lightweight Championship from Santo the previous summer and was determined to stay that way by the night's end. I wasn't overly thrilled by the matwork, which involved a lot of jockeying for position and ultimately led to a sort of macho battle where both guys would arm drag the other guy to the outside. The needling I liked, but I don't think the wrestling was top draw. I might change my mind on a re-watch, but that was my gut feeling this time round. The third caida was fantastic, however. I loved how Espanto fought his way out of Santo's submissions and how he managed to kick out of each of Santo's pin attempts, even when Santo would really sit in them. Espanto's submission finishers were awesome. I don't know that he had to cheat to win, but the final submission he got Santo with was a beaut. There's nothing like a little bit of controversy to end a lucha match, but a lot of folks seemed legit happy. You'd think they were swarming the ring because their guy had beaten the touring champ. What this did highlight for me is just how much we're missing in terms of UWA not taping this stuff. You look at the lists of title defences right through to the early 90s and it's either awe-inspiring or heart breaking. There's nothing you can do about it I suppose unlike the Televisa situation, but I don't think we can even begin to capture what an amazing decade it was for lucha libre with the footage we have. Which is all the more reason to enjoy discoveries like these.

El Hijo del Santo vs. Negro Casas (Mask vs. Hair) (7/18/87) I think this was the only match to make Jeff Bowdren's Top Matches of the 80s list, and since improving Bowdren's list was the original impetus for the 80s sets, I thought it would be interesting to see how it holds up. The verdict? It holds up well. It's not a violent match like Santo vs. Espanto the year before, but the work is excellent and if anything I like it more than when I first saw it a decade ago or more. Back then I was framing it against cruiserweight matches and junior heavyweights, now I can appreciate it as a lucha match. The degree to which they struggle over holds is surprising, although not that surprising as the Espanto match shows that it was a Santo staple at the time, but still there were a lot of details that I didn't pick up on as a lucha neophyte. Probably the most interesting thing for me ten years later is watching 80s Casas. We don't have a lot of 80s Casas as he mostly worked for UWA and the indies, and of the Arena Mexico appearances he made only one of them has been preserved if memory serves me. I don't think he'd been to Japan at this stage as he hadn't adopted the Choshu look yet, and it was evident throughout that he was Casas without really being Casas. That's true of just about all the 90s stars on the set, but Casas would have such a dominant personality by '92 that it was fascinating to watch it in the formative stages. Also of interest was how much Santo had grown into the role of Son of Santo. When you compare this to his Arena Mexico debut where he's so nervous and has that overly long opening exchange with Lobo Rubio, it's amazing how much he'd grown in confidence. His dives here were exquisite. I often bitch and moan about formulaic Santo, but when he hits dives like that the whole world stops for a second. Man are those a thing of beauty. Pirata Morgan, Hombre Bala y Verdugo vs. Atlantis, Angel Azteca y Ringo Mendoza (3/88) There's been a lot of brawling trios on this set, which isn't surprising given the viewing committee's tastes, and there's been some straight filler that I'm not sure would've made the set if more footage was available. There's also been a lot of matches that were only ever meant to set up hair matches which we don't have. That's a bit like putting all those great Satanico/Dandy trios matches on the 1990 yearbook and not having the hair match. The reason that I'm saying all this is to emphasise that *this* is a trios match that I thought was a really high quality trios match. Naturally, not all of the viewing committee were sold on it, which probably makes me an outlier on all things lucha, but let me state my case. A really good trios match should have a little bit of everything: brawling, either matwork or quick fire exchanges, bumping, stooging & selling, a bit of comedy and dives. Of course there are plenty of good trios matches which are predominantly one thing over the other, but I always appreciate a trios that shows the depth and variety of lucha libre wrestling. Add overlapping falls, the right rhythm and pacing and clever finishes and you've generally got a great trios. Everything clicked here for me. I liked the early rudo beatdown on the technicos as well as the technico comeback, which was the right mix of Ringo being a credible enough asskicker to deal to the stockier rudos and Atlantis and Azteca having the skill to both confuse and embarrass the rudos. I really loved Ringo in this match. All of his punches and brawling were great, as were his spinning kicks, no matter how tired they got in the 90s. He was probably a loving family man, but he was one guy I don't think you'd be wise to mess with. You could probably argue that the Azteca fake out spot didn't work so well, though the editing didn't help. To me the only real weak point in the match was the Azteca pinning exchange after Atlantis had done his always brilliant three on one spinning back breakers sequence. No matter how many times Atlantis does that sequence I always mark out like it's the first time I've seen it. Azteca needed to follow it up with something as spectacular or better, similar to the moonsault move that Atlantis does to end the fall, but that's splitting hairs on a great trios. Azteca was still a little green here, but his arm drags were as sensational as ever. Atlantis was out of this world good and really '88-91 marks his absolute peak in my opinion. It's pretty rare that you get a trios match where all three technicos are good and add to that a solid rudos act and you've got something really good. The match reaches its zenith with an incredible tope from Atlantis, which tomk described as vertical and will live long in the memory of people who watch this set, before the footage cuts out right before an almighty uppercut to the groin area. How the match ended we'll never know. Maybe it's still going on somewhere out there in space. El Hijo Del Santo vs. Espanto Jr. (4/10/88) I didn't love this as much as I love their masks match and the '92 title match, but I'm glad we have another match in what is probably Santo's Garvin feud to his Casas Steamboat rivalry. As we've seen with a lot of this 80s stuff, there's a fantastic atmosphere with the ring being flooded with kids before the bout and later on they're sort of loitering about climbing back in it when Santo and Espanto are selling on the outside and running around during the stretch run. There's one kid who jumps a feet in the air every time Espanto kicks out of a nearfall and actually a section of the crowd seemed to be right behind him despite being largely pro-Santo. These two had wrestled so many times from '85-88 with Espanto losing so many times, including every year in their annual hair match, that I suppose to some people he was the underdog in this feud. He entered the match as champion having finally wrestled the UWA's World Lightweight Championship from Santo the previous summer and was determined to stay that way by the night's end. I wasn't overly thrilled by the matwork, which involved a lot of jockeying for position and ultimately led to a sort of macho battle where both guys would arm drag the other guy to the outside. The needling I liked, but I don't think the wrestling was top draw. I might change my mind on a re-watch, but that was my gut feeling this time round. The third caida was fantastic, however. I loved how Espanto fought his way out of Santo's submissions and how he managed to kick out of each of Santo's pin attempts, even when Santo would really sit in them. Espanto's submission finishers were awesome. I don't know that he had to cheat to win, but the final submission he got Santo with was a beaut. There's nothing like a little bit of controversy to end a lucha match, but a lot of folks seemed legit happy. You'd think they were swarming the ring because their guy had beaten the touring champ. What this did highlight for me is just how much we're missing in terms of UWA not taping this stuff. You look at the lists of title defences right through to the early 90s and it's either awe-inspiring or heart breaking. There's nothing you can do about it I suppose unlike the Televisa situation, but I don't think we can even begin to capture what an amazing decade it was for lucha libre with the footage we have. Which is all the more reason to enjoy discoveries like these.

Those Mascara Sagrada botches on disc 7 are horrendous. I've never felt so bad for a base in all my viewing years.

Kato Kung Lee vs. Kung Fu (Mask vs. Hair) (4/29/88) One of the best things about lucha is that you can take two guys who aren't that good technically like Lee and Fu and put them in a mascara contra cabellera match where big moves and basic timing are all they need to draw heat. Sure, a Satanico or a Sangre Chicana will add all sorts of detail and craft a masterpiece, but the goofiest of shit gets over in the cauldron of an apuestas match. I'm a fan of Los Fantásticos, especially Black Man, who sadly seems absent from the set, but their karate schtick wouldn't ordinarily make for the best work in the brawling environment of a hair vs. mask match. What they did here was use elements of their trio formula to put the exclamation mark on falls and employed their karate to deliver some wicked looking shots. Kung Fu had a pretty good match with Javier Cruz on the same disc. Cruz was a kid who I really got into when I was going through the 1990 stuff, who then fell completely off my radar. Kung Fu wasn't the greatest worker and Cruz didn't have a big enough personality to really put that match over, but the important thing was that the crowd bought Kung Fu as a rudo. There's a great image in this match of Kung Fu walking around with his mask pulled down below his eyes and he may or may not be bleeding, it's hard to tell, but his eyes pierce through the grainy haze of degraded, handheld video footage. The crowd throw rubbish at him and he throws it back, prompting members of the publico to challenge him to their own apuestas matches. The real highlights were in the third caida, where Kung Fu delivered a vicious looking kick to Lee's head when he was backed up in the corner and Lee responded with a chop to Fu's face, like some kind of quasi-lucha shoot match. Their big moves were on point and while the match could have done with more obvious blood it had all the basic drama you need. Unfortunately, they went for the shittiest finish imaginable denying the crowd something they could really pop for, but this was still an example of how simple and successful the apuestas formula is.

Kato Kung Lee vs. Kung Fu (Mask vs. Hair) (4/29/88) One of the best things about lucha is that you can take two guys who aren't that good and put them in a mascara contra cabellera match where big moves and basic timing are all they need to draw heat. A Satanico or a Sangre Chicana will add all sorts of details and craft a masterpiece, but even the goofiest of shit gets over in the cauldron of an apuestas match. I'm a big fan of Los Fantasticos, especially Black Man, who is sadly absent from the set. but their karate shtick isn't exactly conductive to the brawling environment of a hair vs. mask match. So what they did here was use elements of their trio formula to add the exclamation mark to falls and employ their karate to deliver some wicked looking shots. Kung Fu had a pretty good match with Javier Cruz on the same disc. Cruz was a kid who I really got into when I was going through the 1990 stuff who then fell completely off my radar. Kung Fu wasn't the greatest worker in the world and Cruz didn't have a big enough personality to really put the match over, but the important thing was that the crowd bought into Kung Fu as a rudo. There's a great image in this match of Kung Fu walking around with his mask pulled down below his eyes; he may or may not be bleeding, it's hard to tell, but his eyes pierce through the grainy haze of degraded, handheld video footage and right into your living room. The crowd throw rubbish at him and he throws it back, prompting members of the publico to challenge him to their own apuestas matches. The real highlights were in the third caida where Kung Fu delivered a vicious looking kick to Lee's head while Lee was backed up in the corner and Lee responded with a chop to Fu's face like some kind of quasi lucha shoot match. Their big moves were on point, and while the match could have done with some more obvious blood, it had all the basic drama you need. Unfortunately, they went for the shittiest finish imaginable denying the crowd something they could really pop for, but this was still an example of how simple and manageable the apuestas formula can be.

Pat O'Connor vs. Bob Orton Sr. This was rad. Orton was this big, ornery dude who really looked to over power O'Connor with his strength. Our boy Pat would have loved to have stayed in a headlock all day long, but he took exception to Orton's roughhousing and every now and again tempers would flare. When they did get done some serious holds, as O'Connor matches seem to do in the latter half of his bouts, the wrestling was the type of matwork you crave for. The finish was an interesting idea, but O'Connor kind of fluffed the final pin.

Most Joshi wrestlers did photobooks and idol videos, and some of them did porn or worked in the sex industry. Joshi came from the nightclubs and is now worked a hop, skip and a jump away from the red light district, so it's not completely removed from the type of objectification that Loss referred to. As for the style, they were working the same style in the 70s. The change has always been in the evolution of moves. You can see workers like Jaguar and Devil Masami raising the bar in the late 70s-early 80s and the trend continuing through to the late 80s classes I think Loss is right that "Joshi" is generally a gender distinction as opposed to a style, but there is a certain workrate style that's synonymous with Joshi and that's generally what people consider it to be regardless of the brawls, mat based matches, worked shoots and other forms of matches. It's most evident in tag matches though it plays a part in singles bouts as well.

The implication behind the whole WNBA thing is that women can't play basketball as well as men. It's described on the podcast as being slower and less athletic as the NBA. I think the comparison to Joshi is unfair. For starters, Joshi is criticised for being too fast and in a sense too athletic. And I don't really think the skill level is a huge drop down from the men. You could maybe argue that some of the spots they blow somehow have something to do with a lack of strength but there are sloppy workers like Tenryu who get a pass for their offence.

Joshi is not to Japanese men's wrestling what the WNBA is to the NBA. I don't buy that for a second.